The 2011 2nd Round

The 2011 2nd round class were all signed to 4 year deals under the new CBA, and will be due to become UFAs in 2015. With the trade of Akeem Ayers to the Pats yesterday, over 1/3 of that class has been let go by their original drafting team before playing out their initial 4 year deal:

33. Ras-I Dowling, DB. Patriots. Cut after 2 seasons.
38. Ryan Williams, RB. Arizona. Cut after 3 seasons.
39. Akeem Ayers, LB. Tennessee. Traded for peanuts after 3+ seasons.
44. Titus Young, RB. Detroit. Cut after 2+ seasons.
49. Ben Ijalana, OL. Indianapolis. Cut after 2 seasons.
52. Marvin Austin, DT. NY Giants. Cut after 2 seasons.
54. Jaquawn Jarrett, S. Philadelphia. Cut after 1 season.
57. Mikel Leshoure, RB. Detroit. Cut after 3 seasons.
59. Greg Little, WR. Cleveland. Cut after 3 seasons.
61. Jonas Mouton, LB. San Diego. Cut after 3 seasons.
62. Daniel Thomas, RB. Miami. Cut after 3 seasons (subsequently re-signed).

That doesn't include guys like Da'Quan Bowers who are still on their teams but have greatly under-exceeded expectations.

Over 25% of the 2010 2nd round (9/32) didn't last more than 3 years with their original team (Brian Price, Aurelius Benn, Torrell Troup, Sergio Kindle, Jimmy Clausen, Taylor Mays, Javier Arenas, Jermaine Cunningham, and Montario Hardesty. 2 more were relative busts and weren't resigned after their rookie deals expired (Vlad Ducasse and Charles Brown), and received only minimal deals from other teams.

Already 4 players from the 2012 2nd round are no longer with their original teams: Jonathan Martin, Stephen Hill, Jerel Worthy and LaMichael James.

Apparently the Pats aren't the only team to miss on 2nd round prospects.

If you're putting that up for me fine. We entered the draft with 2 1's, 2 2's and 2 3's. We got no front 7 help. BB did a fantastic job in 2010 of re-tooling the offense(two te) and adding McCourty. Looked like we were on the brink of building another Super Bowl Champion. We needed help at WR after trading Moss and didn't address it. We also needed help on the front 7. Didn't address that either. I would say our draft sucked. But, it is what it is. We should have owned that draft and didn't. I was a fan of the Solder pick. I even picked him at 28 in my mock. Still kills me we didn't address the pass rush 3-4 olb and 3-4 de. We needed both at the time. And, passed on Torrey Smith and Randall Cobb in the second.

patsfaninpa said:

If you're putting that up for me fine.

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I don't understand this. FWIW, I wasn't putting this up for anyone in particular, nor to defend the Pats' picks, but just as a general comment on what a crapshoot the draft is.

mayoclinic said:

I don't understand this. FWIW, I wasn't putting this up for anyone in particular, nor to defend the Pats' picks, but just as a general comment on what a crapshoot the draft is.

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No prob. We've gone back and forth on that draft a few times. The draft is a crapshoot.

I was going to write a post comparing the 2015 draft to that 2011 draft. Unfortunately one of those comparisons was to the effect that that draft (2011) was top heavy and I believe 2015 will be too.

The conclusion I do reach though is that drafting is hard. Unfortunately it's something that needs to drilled in to the minds of the negative types.

manxman2601 said:

I was going to write a post comparing the 2015 draft to that 2011 draft. Unfortunately one of those comparisons was to the effect that that draft (2011) was top heavy and I believe 2015 will be too.

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In retrospect, the 2011 class looks terrible. The Ras-I Dowling pick was a bust, but there were plenty of other busts in the round. Shane Vereen has been one of the better picks out of that round, even though many people wish we had taken Torrey Smith or Randall Cobb. No one considers that we could have ended up with Greg Little or Mikel Leshoure.

2015 doesn't look nearly as top-heavy to me right now, but perhaps 3 years from now it will.

2011 also had the best first round for a long time and I think 2015 could match or better it.

manxman2601 said:

2011 also had the best first round for a long time and I think 2015 could match or better it.

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That's a good point. A ton of talent all through that 1st round. Guys like Cam Jordan, Jimmy Smith and Mohammad Wilkerson at the end of the round.

We could've used that totally wasted pick (Ras-I Dowling) to trade up for JJ Watt

Hindsight. The luxury of the fan forum.

MrNathanDrake said:

We could've used that totally wasted pick (Ras-I Dowling) to trade up for JJ Watt

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Who's to say the FO didn't try? There were rumors of the Pats trying to move up into the top 10 of the 2011 draft right up to the day of the draft (as is often the case; there were similar rumors in 2009). Probably just smoke, but if the Pats liked Watt it wouldn't have shocked me if they had some trade up conversations, and no one bit.

We had 17 and 33 overall. It wouldn't have been hard to find a trade partner.

MrNathanDrake said:

We had 17 and 33 overall. It wouldn't have been hard to find a trade partner.

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If BB was willing to give that much - that combination should have gotten us to around the #7 pick. Watt was not a consensus top 10 pick in 2011. He wasn't even the consensus top 3-4 DE, as many had Cameron Jordan rated higher (I did). There were no rumors of people trading up for Watt going into the 2011 draft, but there were rumors of Jordan being a hot commodity and people wanting to trade up for him - obviously false, in retrospect. 10 teams passed on JJ Watt. In hindsight, it would have been a no-brainer.

We had 17, 28, 33 and 60 going into the 2011 draft. 17+60=1250, the value of the #11 pick. It's quite possible that BB tried to trade up, but couldn't find takers, and that he wasn't willing to use 17+33, which is a LOT of draft capital to spend on one pick.

mayoclinic said:

If BB was willing to give that much - that combination should have gotten us to around the #7 pick. Watt was not a consensus top 10 pick in 2011. He wasn't even the consensus top 3-4 DE, as many had Cameron Jordan rated higher (I did). There were no rumors of people trading up for Watt going into the 2011 draft, but there were rumors of Jordan being a hot commodity and people wanting to trade up for him - obviously false, in retrospect. 10 teams passed on JJ Watt. In hindsight, it would have been a no-brainer.

We had 17, 28, 33 and 60 going into the 2011 draft. 17+60=1250, the value of the #11 pick. It's quite possible that BB tried to trade up, but couldn't find takers, and that he wasn't willing to use 17+33, which is a LOT of draft capital to spend on one pick.

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With all the picks we had, we could have had any player we wanted in that draft save possibly Cam Newton.

I'm guessing that most would take Watt ahead of any other player in that draft and I suspect Von Miller comes second for most. I wonder who comes next?

manxman2601 said:

With all the picks we had, we could have had any player we wanted in that draft save possibly Cam Newton.

I'm guessing that most would take Watt ahead of any other player in that draft and I suspect Von Miller comes second for most. I wonder who comes next?

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Is this a "hindsight" question?

Von Miller went #2, and the cost of trading up to get him would not have been a realistic option. I didn't want him at the time - didn't think he had enough "sand in the pants" to thrive under BB. I'd change that view now with where our defense has evolved.

Our 2 biggest perceived needs at the time were OT and 3-4 DE. My guys were Cam Jordan and Tyron Smith. Jordan's been very good, but obviously not JJ Watt good. Tyron Smith has been an all pro LT, and would have been worth trading up for, though it would have taken 17+33 to move up ahead of Dallas at #9.

In retrospect, what I really wish is that we had been able to trade #33 to New Orleans instead of #28, and that we had then used #28 on Muhammad Wilkerson. He is a top 10 player from that draft. But that's hindsight. I would have been all over Wilkerson if he had lasted to #33, but with both the Jets and Steelers picking between 28 and 33 that wasn't going to happen.

Talking about hindsight and missed opportunities in 2011, 3 Pro Bowlers were on my short list going into the draft: RB DeMarco Murray, TE Jordan Cameron, and CB Richard Sherman. Justin Houston was on a lot of people's lists that year as well, though not on mine.

mayoclinic said:

Is this a "hindsight" question?

Von Miller went #2, and the cost of trading up to get him would not have been a realistic option. I didn't want him at the time - didn't think he had enough "sand in the pants" to thrive under BB. I'd change that view now with where our defense has evolved.

Our 2 biggest perceived needs at the time were OT and 3-4 DE. My guys were Cam Jordan and Tyron Smith. Jordan's been very good, but obviously not JJ Watt good. Tyron Smith has been an all pro LT, and would have been worth trading up for, though it would have taken 17+33 to move up ahead of Dallas at #9.

In retrospect, what I really wish is that we had been able to trade #33 to New Orleans instead of #28, and that we had then used #28 on Muhammad Wilkerson. He is a top 10 player from that draft. But that's hindsight. I would have been all over Wilkerson if he had lasted to #33, but with both the Jets and Steelers picking between 28 and 33 that wasn't going to happen.

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No hindsight, just a bit of hypothetical fun.

I remember reading a few early mocks that had Watt going to us at #17, and thinking "no thanks." I kept muttering "The Saints stole our draft!" as I really liked Jordan and Ingram. I was lukewarm on the Solder pick with Jordan ripe for the taking, but I also liked Carimi out of Wisconsin for our RT with Seabass kicking over to LT. I couldn't even tell you who Carimi plays for now. I didn't know enough about Wilkerson, as I've probably only seen a handful of Temple games in my life. I did love what highlights I saw.

I wanted the Ras-I pick to be flipped for a 1st rounder in '12. I'm still convinced someone must have disconnected the Raider's phone. Also didn't like Ras-I due to the injuries, same reason I didn't like the Gronk and Easley picks. I understand making them from a value standpoint, but I find it a little risky.

Hated the Vereen pick, especially with Leshoure on the board.

All in all, I think Cannon was the only pick I really liked, hehe.

Sherman was way off my radar.
I remember a few mocks had Justin Houston going to us, and not liking him; same with Ryan Kerrigan. Doh!

mrbean said:

I remember reading a few early mocks that had Watt going to us at #17, and thinking "no thanks." I kept muttering "The Saints stole our draft!" as I really liked Jordan and Ingram. I was lukewarm on the Solder pick with Jordan ripe for the taking, but I also liked Carimi out of Wisconsin for our RT with Seabass kicking over to LT. I couldn't even tell you who Carimi plays for now. I didn't know enough about Wilkerson, as I've probably only seen a handful of Temple games in my life. I did love what highlights I saw.

I wanted the Ras-I pick to be flipped for a 1st rounder in '12. I'm still convinced someone must have disconnected the Raider's phone. Also didn't like Ras-I due to the injuries, same reason I didn't like the Gronk and Easley picks. I understand making them from a value standpoint, but I find it a little risky.

Hated the Vereen pick, especially with Leshoure on the board.

All in all, I think Cannon was the only pick I really liked, hehe.

Sherman was way off my radar.
I remember a few mocks had Justin Houston going to us, and not liking him; same with Ryan Kerrigan. Doh!

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I applaud your honesty.

lol, thanks. For all the complaining I find myself doing after the drafts, it's become abundantly clear to me over the years that I could never do better. That's what I love about being an armchair gm; the pay sucks, but I can make all the bad picks in the world and not be fired for gross incompetence.