Emmanuel Sanders wanted to be a Pat

PATS16N0 said:

Not the discussion itself, sorry.

The narrative that some huge blunder took place in him not ending up here like his 2014 numbers were a certainty.

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I think the blunder was the willingness to give Amendola five years for $28.5M and then offering Sanders a one year deal for $2.5M when Sanders basically had the same production as a third option in the Steelers option as Amendola had as the first option in the Rams offense; add to the Sanders being younger, more durable, significantly more talented, and able to play inside at the slot and outside as a flanker. That was a huge blunder, but it was a blunder made in 2013. I do not think there was a blunder this offseason, LaFell has been productive and filed a need at outside receiver. We could not have signed Edelman, LaFell, and Sanders with Amendola eating our cap.

Rob0729 said:

Ultimately Belichick was actually right for moving on from Welker. He just isn't the player he was anymore. He is a good role player at best. The Broncos got about 3/4 of a good season out of him for their money. If his name wasn't Welker and the Pats signed him to the deal he got in Denver and produced like he has, he would be slightly more popular in New England than Amendola right now.

Now you can kill him for getting Amendola as his replacement, but ultimately that position worked out because Edelman did replace Welker.

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Welker went to Denver to be a third or fourth option and his production reflects that. Here he was a first or second option and his production would have been different. Edelman emerged because Amendola was unable to fill Welker's role, had Welker not left there is a likelihood that Edelman may not have had the opportunity to emerge.

In addition, you are undervaluing Welker, he has more touchdowns in a Broncos uniform than Amendola has in his 7 years in the NFL.

Brady6 said:

Welker went to Denver to be a third or fourth option and his production reflects that. Here he was a first or second option and his production would have been different. Edelman emerged because Amendola was unable to fill Welker's role, had Welker not left there is a likelihood that Edelman may not have had the opportunity to emerge.

In addition, you are undervaluing Welker, he has more touchdowns in a Broncos uniform than Amendola has in his 7 years in the NFL.

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First, he was not signed to be the 3-4 option. He became the 3-4 option.

Again, my post wasn't comparing Welker to Amendola. My post was that Belichick was ultimately right to move on from Welker. He was declining last year and he is now an one to two catch a game type of player. He has 9 catches and about 60 yards more than Tim Wright and one less TD. Wright is about the Pats' fifth or sixth option.

I said Amendola is a different discussion. I said that the Pats were ultimately right to move on from Welker (or lucky that Welker decided to move on), but you can argue if their replacement was the right choice.

And I am not undervaluing him as a Bronco. He declined from his last year as a Patriot earlier in the season and has been a shell of himself since he got those multiple concussions. He is a bit role player now. And on a team with less weapons, he might not be nearly as productive as he has been this year (19 catches for 180 yards and TD for the season) because teams would focus on him more.

In 2013, the team had neither the money no the inclination to pay Sanders the $16M over 3 years (with $10M guaranteed) that we paid Amendola. Sanders was unproven, and the decision not to pay him move than $5M a year was a relatively easy one. I suppose that we could have made him richer by making the one year offer a bit more; PITT would still have matched.

The real question was in 2014. I believe Sanders. I think that might have signed with us to over $5M a year, with $10M guaranteed. Most of us were surprised to see him get $5M a year from Denver, with $6M guaranteed. In any case, IMHO, the team made a reasonable choice in signing LaFell to a 3 year contract at $3M a year, with $3M guaranteed.

Looking back, I suppose if Belichick knew that Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce would amount to almost nothing, and Amendola would underperform, I guess that Belichick might have paid the bucks. But that is 100% hindsight. Belichick obviously expected more from the FOUR 2014 receivers added in 2013.

mgteich said:

In 2013, the team had neither the money no the inclination to pay Sanders the $16M over 3 years (with $10M guaranteed) that we paid Amendola. Sanders was unproven, and the decision not to pay him move than $5M a year was a relatively easy one. I suppose that we could have made him richer by making the one year offer a bit more; PITT would still have matched.

The real question was in 2014. I believe Sanders. I think that might have signed with us to over $5M a year, with $10M guaranteed. Most of us were surprised to see him get $5M a year from Denver, with $6M guaranteed. In any case, IMHO, the team made a reasonable choice in signing LaFell to a 3 year contract at $3M a year, with $3M guaranteed.

Looking back, I suppose if Belichick knew that Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce would amount to almost nothing, and Amendola would underperform, I guess that Belichick might have paid the bucks. But that is 100% hindsight. Belichick obviously expected more from the FOUR 2014 receivers added in 2013.

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After the fact, everything is easy to assess isn't it!

mgteich said:

In 2013, the team had neither the money no the inclination to pay Sanders the $16M over 3 years (with $10M guaranteed) that we paid Amendola. Sanders was unproven, and the decision not to pay him move than $5M a year was a relatively easy one. I suppose that we could have made him richer by making the one year offer a bit more; PITT would still have matched.

The real question was in 2014. I believe Sanders. I think that might have signed with us to over $5M a year, with $10M guaranteed. Most of us were surprised to see him get $5M a year from Denver, with $6M guaranteed. In any case, IMHO, the team made a reasonable choice in signing LaFell to a 3 year contract at $3M a year, with $3M guaranteed.

Looking back, I suppose if Belichick knew that Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce would amount to almost nothing, and Amendola would underperform, I guess that Belichick might have paid the bucks. But that is 100% hindsight. Belichick obviously expected more from the FOUR 2014 receivers added in 2013.

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Yall are writing off Dobson way too early and in an ignorant fashion. The most productive rookie Wr ever for brady and bb and you guys are dumping on him, after he had a serious foot injury.

Archeryaddict12 said:

Yall are writing off Dobson way too early and in an ignorant fashion. The most productive rookie Wr ever for brady and bb and you guys are dumping on him, after he had a serious foot injury.

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No one is writing off Dobson (or Amendola for that matter). I am simply noting that we have not gotten the production that we expected from these players (nor from Thompkins or Boyce).

PATS16N0 said:

Not the discussion itself, sorry.

The narrative that some huge blunder took place in him not ending up here like his 2014 numbers were a certainty.

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Yes, the discussion itself. You can try to play the "hindsight!" card all you want, but it's simply not valid on this topic.

Rob0729 said:

First, he was not signed to be the 3-4 option. He became the 3-4 option.

Again, my post wasn't comparing Welker to Amendola. My post was that Belichick was ultimately right to move on from Welker. He was declining last year and he is now an one to two catch a game type of player. He has 9 catches and about 60 yards more than Tim Wright and one less TD. Wright is about the Pats' fifth or sixth option.

I said Amendola is a different discussion. I said that the Pats were ultimately right to move on from Welker (or lucky that Welker decided to move on), but you can argue if their replacement was the right choice.

And I am not undervaluing him as a Bronco. He declined from his last year as a Patriot earlier in the season and has been a shell of himself since he got those multiple concussions. He is a bit role player now. And on a team with less weapons, he might not be nearly as productive as he has been this year (19 catches for 180 yards and TD for the season) because teams would focus on him more.

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Thomas and Decker were #1 and #2 both coming of seasons of more than a thousand yards when Welker signed. He did not become anything he went there to be the slot WR, which he has been, Manning does not and has never utilized the slot WR as much as Brady. Welker also suffer 3 concussions with the Broncos, which likely led to diminished play, without Manning hanging him out to dry there is nothing to suggest he would suffered the same injuries.

You want to believe the right decision was made letting him go and I do too but realistically we do not know, all we know is even a diminished Welker has nearly 4 times the catches and yards as the player we paid nearly as much to sign. So the overall premise of the decision was not very good.

fgssand said:

I'd rather have Edelman, welker all done after this year, didn't play much last night and hasn't been these days there.

I'd rather Revis over Talib and we beat denver to the punch with that signing.

I'll take the combination of Lafell and Edelman over just sanders, and that is how it player out.

Felger and Maz have snatched so many minds over here these days it's pathetic......those two clowns are fanning your flames for ratings and you saps buy in every day. Try listening to NFL radio for unbiased football talk, not BS.

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I'm not saying I'd rather have Welker and Talib over Edelman and Revis though. And I don't live in Boston so I do not listen to any of those guys on the radio.

And when it comes to Sanders, what bothers me is the offer sheet we signed him to. Given how badly our need at WR was at the time, and how badly Pittsburgh was affected by the cap, he SHOULD'VE been a Patriot and it just bugs me.

TBR said:

I'm not saying I'd rather have Welker and Talib over Edelman and Revis though. And I don't live in Boston so I do not listen to any of those guys on the radio.

And when it comes to Sanders, what bothers me is the offer sheet we signed him to. Given how badly our need at WR was at the time, and how badly Pittsburgh was affected by the cap, he SHOULD'VE been a Patriot and it just bugs me.

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At that time, we still had the murderer and, iirc, Brandon Lloyd.

Still, I do agree and it bugs me too that we never landed Sanders. Always thought the kid had a ton of talent.

mgteich said:

Looking back, I suppose if Belichick knew that Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce would amount to almost nothing

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Not meaning to sound super negative because that's not my M.O. the majority of the time, but there were some who weren't too impressed with those 3 receivers--even as much as we all wanted to be.

I think many here were overhyping those 3 players due to the fact that they got some looks last year without us having many other viable options.

In the end, Thompkins and Boyce were both cut (although Boyce was brought back to the PS), and Dobson has been a healthy scratch who isn't even seeing targets when he is playing. I think it's fairly obvious that our hopes of the 3 receivers from 2013 are quickly going down the drain, despite being pimped all offseason as the second coming of pro bowlers (or even Jerry Rice....from some optimistic posters).

I think at this point we have seen enough to know that amendola was a mistake.

I championed for him when he was signed, I thought he would excel here with brady as his QB, and i also thought he would stay healthy.

I was wrong. Amendola had an injury plagued first season, and he has not looked as good as he had in his first game, the game where he got injured, since. This season he just last week emerged as a potential spot returning kickoffs. Lets give him a few games to get some touches and see if something starts to click, but from my point of view, there is NO reason to keep amendola next year

chasa said:

I think at this point we have seen enough to know that amendola was a mistake.

I championed for him when he was signed, I thought he would excel here with brady as his QB, and i also thought he would stay healthy.

I was wrong. Amendola had an injury plagued first season, and he has not looked as good as he had in his first game, the game where he got injured, since. This season he just last week emerged as a potential spot returning kickoffs. Lets give him a few games to get some touches and see if something starts to click, but from my point of view, there is NO reason to keep amendola next year

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I'd be fine with keeping him as a depth option, or even in the same role that he's currently in with a decrease in snaps. After all, he is our only real replacement in case Edelman gets hurt, and to me--that's an important role in and of itself.

Personally, I'd be okay with paying him something in the 2--2.5 million dollar range, depending upon the way it was written up. Obviously, there's nothing saying that he'll be offered to stay at a reduced salary, or even if he'd accept it.

at the health and production consistency hes been able to provide, hes a Vet minimum player on this team, at the very most 1 million a year with incentives.

fgssand said:

I think it ends up Lafell and Edelman or just sanders. Amendola was already signed and signing sanders for sure would have meant the other two would not be here.

I'm good with they way things played out.

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No no no, don't you get it? We could have had Sanders, corderelle patterson, edelman amandola lafell jamie collins logan ryan josh boyce and lagarette blount, but BB is such a moron he screwed it all up.

chasa said:

I think at this point we have seen enough to know that amendola was a mistake.

I championed for him when he was signed, I thought he would excel here with brady as his QB, and i also thought he would stay healthy.

I was wrong. Amendola had an injury plagued first season, and he has not looked as good as he had in his first game, the game where he got injured, since. This season he just last week emerged as a potential spot returning kickoffs. Lets give him a few games to get some touches and see if something starts to click, but from my point of view, there is NO reason to keep amendola next year

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I don't know what happened to Amendola. Last preseason and in Game 1 vs. Buffalo, he was the guy I expected...last year, he was clearly hindered. Then the off-season surgery, and this year, he's done little - until last week.

He looked quicker to me on the kick-offs and that touchdown. Can we hope that he's finally healed and will start getting separation?

I hope so, because if he's the guy we saw in Week 1 last year, it would help this team greatly.

I doubt he'll be here next year, whatever happens. But I hope he can help us get where we want to be this year.

PlainOldEd said:

No no no, don't you get it? We could have had Sanders, corderelle patterson, edelman amandola lafell jamie collins logan ryan josh boyce and lagarette blount, but BB is such a moron he screwed it all up.

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How foolish of me....you are spot on....

We don't even know if sanders could've grasped the pats apparently nuclear physics level playbook as seemingly 90% of receivers can't...at least it seems like lafell is starting to get it...

50-yard-line said:

At that time, we still had the murderer and, iirc, Brandon Lloyd.

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Yeah just a reminder that the Patriots straight up cut Brandon Lloyd who had 74 catches the season before for reasons that are still somewhat unfathomable to any of us except through wild speculation

Again, Sanders is a good WR in an incredible offense. Ignore the fantasy football points and look at last night objectively and, guess what, Demaryius Thomas was still the most important part of the offense. That's the guy who makes it all run and has made it all run since Manning got there. Well, him, Julius Thomas to some extent, and Manning himself.