I don't care.I can't stand it!

BSR said:

I understand you would rather scrap that system and go with the Jets/Broncos system of "Go for it" but then again neither of those systems have produced anything worth while yet.

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Not at all. The only reason I would want them to stray from "the system" is so Tom has a chance to get a ring. The Ravens basically went for it for Lewis and they did it.
I mean whats that tell you when you have a porus defensive and offensive lines with a boatload of money under the cap?

Patradomous said:

Not at all. The only reason I would want them to stray from "the system" is so Tom has a chance to get a ring. The Ravens basically went for it for Lewis and they did it.
I mean whats that tell you when you have a porus defensive and offensive lines with a boatload of money under the cap?

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What did the Raven's do that made you think they "went for it"? Ozzy comes from the exact same school of thought as Belichick. He lets veterans walk all the time and rarely signs big free agents.

Look at all the players they lost because of cap consideration s after they won the SB.
Like Joquin Bolden not that we could ever use a player like that.

Patradomous said:

Look at all the players they lost because of cap consideration s after they won the SB.
Like Joquin Bolden not that we could ever use a player like that.

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Because they had to sign Flacco. Not because they loaded up prior to that year. There is nothing to suggest that they were all in.

Phonetic spelling, emphatic defense of absurd points and the use of terms popularized by Felger. Lemme guess, Belichick needs to lose fat and gain muscle?

jays52 said:

Belichick needs to lose fat and gain muscle?

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That would apply to Allen Branch let's hope he doesn't have cirrhosis.

Maybe by the end of the year he'll have earned the coveted black jacket of practice squad player of the week.
Fanetic this.

One thing that seems to be lost in this discussion is the apparent belief that the Patriots should be able to sign every free agent they desire. News flash: 31 other team are selling those same free agents on why they should sign with their team, selling their city/region, coaching staff, team, etc. There are going to be multiple instances when a player finds another team to be a better fit or opportunity, or offer more job security.

This isn't baseball, where a handful of teams can outspend 90% of the rest of the league in order to build the best roster. The number of teams that have tried that approach and failed is lengthy.

I also have to question the concept that it is better to go 'all-in' for a single season with the idea that you realize it will screw you for several seasons. There is no guarantee that concept will work; we've seen that go up in flames in recent years with Philadelphia's Dream Team, the Dolphins, Bills and Jets being declared pre-season division winners (or more), the Vikings advancing to the Super Bowl by trading for Randy Moss, and going further back Oakland, Dallas and Washington trying that approach multiple times. There are only two teams that I can think of that went 'all-in' and won it all, and both happened over a decade ago: the Bucs in 2002, and the Ravens in 2000. It looks to me that the balanced approach - even when you have a star player approaching the end of his career - has a better success rate.

The biggest reasons why the Patriots have unspent cap money is because of Logan Mankins and Tommy Kelly. Thoughts on those negotiations have been debated in other threads - personally I do believe the Pats botched things with Kelly, and should have done something to keep him - though admittedly, none of us know exactly what Kelly said that caused the Patriots to agree to release him. In regards to Mankins, negotiations for a restructure had been ongoing for a while. Perhaps based on early talks the Pats were confident an agreement could be worked out. Obviously a trade that late in the year was not the preferred option.

In terms of signing other players, also keep in mind that close to $15 million of the 2014 cap is being used up on one player on IR and another that is in jail. That's a fairly sizable handicap to overcome. Having several highly productive players on rookie contracts is extremely beneficial to a team's success. But before someone blasts the Patriots for their draft picks, consider how cyclical that is. There was a time when the Ravens were the gold standard, but after selecting Sergio Kindle and some others that led to an 8-8 season that talk quieted down. The Packers were the flavor of the month for a while, but folks stopped holding them up after seeing early picks spent on guys like Brian Brohm, Patrick Lee, Mike Neal, etc., and a defense that allowed 27 points per game.

Winning a championship in the NFL is extremely difficult to do, thanks in part to so many variables such as injuries, fluky bounces, tipped balls and questionable penalties. Add in the double-edged sword of free agency and a true salary cap to what is by far biggest 'team' sport - where success is comparatively more dependent on the entire team rather than on one single player - and it boggles my mind how some expect/demand a franchise to field the best team in the league each and every year.

Patradomous said:

That does not mean they don't make mistakes or over estimate or underestimate within that system. Part of that system is coaching up chicken shiit into chicken salad when it fails you you got a chicken shiit and huge holes and lot of unemployed receivers,again. The system has been great, this year not so much.

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By "this year" you must mean 5-2 after 7 games, and 3-0 in October.

No one knows how this season is going to play out, but at least we know that you think they are done.

jays52 said:

Phonetic spelling, emphatic defense of absurd points and the use of terms popularized by Felger. Lemme guess, Belichick needs to lose fat and gain muscle?

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Belichick has moobs. I can perscribe him to a steady diet of kale along with bench, incline, and decline presses to trim the fat off those tits for good. I think every man should try to look like me.

BSR said:

What did the Raven's do that made you think they "went for it"? Ozzy comes from the exact same school of thought as Belichick. He lets veterans walk all the time and rarely signs big free agents.

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Other than providing Lewis with Deer Antler they simply stayed the course, just as the Patriots do. The patriots employ a philosophy where being in the tournament as often as possible is the best recipe for winning Super Bowls, and to do that you have to maintain stability and win consistently, and no one has won more consistently, they could very easily have 3 more rings right now had the breaks gone their way, however it is what it is and they have three, not too shabby. There is no such thing as a guaranteed winner in the NFL and we have seen the favorites fall more times than we can count. It's a long season and it is impossible to know who will end up holding the Lombardi, all we know at this point is that the Patriots are in the hunt with a tough stretch coming up.


It just my imagination or weren't the Bronco's a lock for the Lombardi at this time last season as well?

I swear that other than 2007 we see the same crybaby threads every single season, and at the end of the year the Patriots are almost always one of the best team's in the league an d have a real shot at a Lombardi, and you really can't ask for more than that, especially when you have won more than any other franchise in this era. The Lombardi isn't our birthright, all we can hope for is a shot at it as often as possible, that's the best way to pick them up.

KontradictioN said:

Belichick has moobs. I can perscribe him to a steady diet of kale along with bench, incline, and decline presses to trim the fat off those tits for good. I think every man should try to look like me.

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That'd just turn those fatty moobs to muscular moobs.

Ivan said:

I swear that other than 2007 we see the same crybaby threads every single season, and at the end of the year the Patriots are almost always one of the best team's in the league an d have a real shot at a Lombardi, and you really can't ask for more than that, especially when you have won more than any other franchise in this era.

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Remember 2013 when the offense struggled without Gronk and with a bunch of rookie WRs? Or 2012 when we started at 3-3? Or 2011 when we lost back-to-back games to the Steelers and Giants, and cut Albert Haynesworth? Or 2010 when we traded Randy Moss after week 4 because the offense had become too predictable? All we did over those 4 seasons was go 51-13 (29-3 over the last half of those 4 seasons) with 1 SB appearance and 3 AFCCG appearances.

BB calls it "climbing the mountain". It's about dealing with adversity, developing mental toughness, and pulling together as a team - concepts that seem foreign to many on this board. The teams that handle those challenges successfully are often the ones standing at the end, sometimes over more "talented" and heralded teams. This team may or may not end up in that group, but these growing pains are an essential part of the process.

KontradictioN said:

Belichick has moobs. I can perscribe him to a steady diet of kale along with bench, incline, and decline presses to trim the fat off those tits for good. I think every man should try to look like me.

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That's what's up. Maybe throw in a little hybrid density training with some kettlebell and battle rope finishers? Get dat aneorbic conditioning through the roof, add in some powerful kale shakes, coconut oil, ghee, dem hemp proteinz, cut out all those 3am pizzas from that one place in foxboro he and Patricia singlehandedly keep in business. Get ole Bill shredded to the gills.

Patradomous said:

Not at all. The only reason I would want them to stray from "the system" is so Tom has a chance to get a ring. The Ravens basically went for it for Lewis and they did it.
I mean whats that tell you when you have a porus defensive and offensive lines with a boatload of money under the cap?

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Our fellow poster Miguel Benzan does the best job of anyone around of keeping up with the Patriots' salary cap situation, and his page http://patscap.com , updated yesterday says:

"Last updated on October 22, 2014 3:35 PM EDT

According to my figures the Patriots' 2014 current commitment is for $102,138,763 with 53 players signed. I have the Patriots' 2014 dead money as $17,068,652. The Patriots have 8 players on Injured Reserve. Their cap total is $10,228,436. Maintaining the ten-man practice squad has cost $945,000. $17,068,652 + $102,138,763 + $10,288,436 + $945,000 = $130,380,851. My numbers do INCLUDE the transactions made on October 22nd (Ayers trade and the Ja'Gared Davis release). The Patriots 2014 adjusted cap number is $139,109,051 so I have the Pats under it by $8,728,200. On October 18 < Joel Corry reported that the Patriots had 9.838 million in cap space. Joel Corry's numbers do not include the impact of promoting Chris Barker and Jonas Gray to the 53-man roster from the practice squad, the impact of Wilfork reaching his NLTBE 46-man active roster bonus, Ayers trade, and the Ja'Gared Davis release. Those two moves took up $541,589 in cap space so my number was off from the official number by about $180,000. Please note that my numbers are now including everyone (all 53 players, 8 players on IR, and the 8-man practice squad) while the NFLPA's does not yet."

The Patriots do not have a "boatload of money under the cap." They have $8.728 million to honor bonuses earned and some resources to address emergencies - such as what we're seeing on the defensive side of the football.

The dead money is a killer on the cap. Aaron Hernandez is by far the biggest problem at $7.5 million of the $17 million in dead money, followed by Mankins (although the Pats got value in return,) Sopoaga, Kelly and Steve Gregory. We can debate that all day long.

If you want to be pissed, look at Aaron Hernandez. Besides being a sociopath, he represents the biggest single drag on the Patriots ability to build depth or address needs.

Please stop listening to Felger and Mazz and their ill-informed fantasy football view of the world and follow the guys here who understand how all this fits together. I have learned so much from the veteran posters on this board about how this team has been assembled over the years in such a way as to always be in the SB discussion, and how it is set up for this year and the future. That remains in effect even with the Mayo and Ridley IR situations.

Patradomous said:

Look at all the players they lost because of cap consideration s after they won the SB.
Like Joquin Bolden not that we could ever use a player like that.

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That's a compelling argument, they WENT FOR IT by keeping the players they already had.


And Joquin will be proud you think so highly of him, whoever he is.

Patradomous said:

Not at all. The only reason I would want them to stray from "the system" is so Tom has a chance to get a ring. The Ravens basically went for it for Lewis and they did it.
I mean whats that tell you when you have a porus defensive and offensive lines with a boatload of money under the cap?

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Me too, if only they had gone after the top free agent on the market.............but Kraft is too cheap and Belichick too stoopid for that.

I think what is important here is that Patradoofus is truly amazing. He has proven he knows **** about nothing, which is quite an accomplishment in these parts considering the competition here.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-england-patriots

The New England Patriots have already accrued $4,712,854 in dead money for the 2015 NFL Season according to the Over The Cap website. This post is precursor to the posters who state that the New England Patriots don't spend up to the salary cap.

KontradictioN said:

Belichick has moobs. I can perscribe him to a steady diet of kale along with bench, incline, and decline presses to trim the fat off those tits for good. I think every man should try to look like me.

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Belichick is probably more interested in what his gf's boobs look like than his own. Cant say I blame him there.

goheels22002 said:

Our fellow poster Miguel Benzan does the best job of anyone around of keeping up with the Patriots' salary cap situation, and his page http://patscap.com , updated yesterday says:

"Last updated on October 22, 2014 3:35 PM EDT

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Thats a very informative post. And I am not questioning them to be argumentative. But who really knows what the numbers are outside of the Pats.
So far I've seen about 4 different variations what money is leftover under the cap and your post may be the most accurate one.
But the common denominator in all of them is that they are in fact under the cap which has been my point from the start. When you compare Brandon Lafell to Emanuel Sanders and Amendola to Welker for not a hell of a lot more diff in coin,I mean really?. As a huge fan I got to ask what the hell are you doing here?
Yes I know they are 5-2 to the Bills, Dolphins, Jets and Vikings and the like.And yes the present system that they use has been successful. But there some good examples where it hasn't (see Reche Caldwell).
I believe sometimes when they insist on being the smartest guys in the room all the time it doesn't always work.
Unfortunatley this won't be the last time somebody says "How come we can't get players like that?" this year. I won't be the only one either.