Vincent Jackson on the trade block?

I'm sorry but i don't need to stress any longer how much Tom needs a deep threat and i've been saying all along that there are 2 guys in this league that DESPERATELY need an elite QB because they are being underutilised due to not having one being able to get them the ball. Those 2 would be Larry Fitzgerald and Vincent Jackson

To me the Patriots would be STUPID to not go after VJac if all they want is a 3rd rounder.

I haven't bothered reading this entire thread so apologies if this has been beaten to death, but I don't think this is the time to be upgrading the offense.

Think about it. Jackson would have to learn a new playbook and have to earn Brady's trust all within this season for him to have any consistent impact. The word "consistent" is key here because I'm pretty sure we can just send Tyms deep every now and then a complete a few passes. Consistency (preferably productive consistency) is the key for our WRs at this point.

Plus, there is a chance that forcing Jackson down Brady's throat would hinder the development of Tyms and even more so of Dobson (wherever his development may be at this point).

PatriotsInGA said:

I haven't bothered reading this entire thread so apologies if this has been beaten to death, but I don't think this is the time to be upgrading the offense.

Think about it. Jackson would have to learn a new playbook and have to earn Brady's trust all within this season for him to have any consistent impact. The word "consistent" is key here because I'm pretty sure we can just send Tyms deep every now and then a complete a few passes. Consistency (preferably productive consistency) is the key for our WRs at this point.

Plus, there is a chance that forcing Jackson down Brady's throat would hinder the development of Tyms and even more so of Dobson (wherever his development may be at this point).

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Just have him run go routes until he is better acclimated with the offense. and if you are really worried about the development of Tyms over getting a very good outside WR then I don't want to see you on here complaining about lack of weapons for Brady in January if the Pats have a disappointing offense output in the playoffs and get bounced.

PatriotsInGA said:

I haven't bothered reading this entire thread so apologies if this has been beaten to death, but I don't think this is the time to be upgrading the offense.

Think about it. Jackson would have to learn a new playbook and have to earn Brady's trust all within this season for him to have any consistent impact. The word "consistent" is key here because I'm pretty sure we can just send Tyms deep every now and then a complete a few passes. Consistency (preferably productive consistency) is the key for our WRs at this point.

Plus, there is a chance that forcing Jackson down Brady's throat would hinder the development of Tyms and even more so of Dobson (wherever his development may be at this point).

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Any move that upgrades the roster shouldn't be viewed as a bad move. At this point in time and pushing aside scheme, it's clearly Jackson > Tyms & Dobson. That said, I doubt they make the trade.

ausbacker said:

Any move that upgrades the roster shouldn't be viewed as a bad move. At this point in time and pushing aside scheme, it's clearly Jackson > Tyms & Dobson. That said, I doubt they make the trade.

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I don't disagree with the Jackson > Tyms/Dobson statement at all. Hell, I wouldn't be up in arms if they actually pulled the trigger on the trade. I just think that with all the trust/scheme/playbook/etc. issues all the non-Edelman receivers have had that it wouldn't be worth it. Trading away players that already understand the system for a player that may or may not be able to make an impact this season just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

PatriotsInGA said:

I don't disagree with the Jackson > Tyms/Dobson statement at all. Hell, I wouldn't be up in arms if they actually pulled the trigger on the trade. I just think that with all the trust/scheme/playbook/etc. issues all the non-Edelman receivers have had that it wouldn't be worth it. Trading away players that already understand the system for a player that may or may not be able to make an impact this season just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

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Jackson is a very very smart player he just needs a QB and it really is that simple. I'd trade most of our receiving corps not named Gronk or Edelman for him. You don't say no to elite talent and Denver certainly didn't, forget this playbook nonsense because elite players just get it.

English Patriot said:

I'm sorry but i don't need to stress any longer how much Tom needs a deep threat and i've been saying all along that there are 2 guys in this league that DESPERATELY need an elite QB because they are being underutilised due to not having one being able to get them the ball. Those 2 would be Larry Fitzgerald and Vincent Jackson

To me the Patriots would be STUPID to not go after VJac if all they want is a 3rd rounder.

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A deep threat won't get them a SB. They don't need one. Look at 07...had one and didn't win one. Vjax is soft. I want to hold out hope for fitz who bedard says may be available

PatriotsInGA said:

I don't disagree with the Jackson > Tyms/Dobson statement at all. Hell, I wouldn't be up in arms if they actually pulled the trigger on the trade. I just think that with all the trust/scheme/playbook/etc. issues all the non-Edelman receivers have had that it wouldn't be worth it. Trading away players that already understand the system for a player that may or may not be able to make an impact this season just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

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Whilst I agree with your sentiment, I happen to believe that Jackson is good enough and smart enough to pick up the system immediately.

If the cost is around a 3rd round pick and roughly 6 million for this season, that's a trade I would make. Then again, i'd probably go Matt Millen on the Patriots.

Brady_to_Moss said:

A deep threat won't get them a SB. They don't need one. Look at 07...had one and didn't win one. Vjax is soft. I want to hold out hope for fitz who bedard says may be available

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Fitz ain't gonna happen, if the Cards sucked then yeah but they don't and Arizona wouldn't risk it. As for VJax i don't know which one you are watching because he sure as hell ain't soft. Makes tough catches on the run look very easy.

ausbacker said:

If the cost is around a 3rd round pick and roughly 6 million for this season, that's a trade I would make. Then again, i'd probably go Matt Millen on the Patriots.

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Given what has been a largely unimpressive history of success with our 3rd round picks, I would say that relinquishing a 3rd shouldn't be much, if any, factor in such a trade proposal.

Unless one worries about missing out on:

Ryan - Harmon - Bequette - Ridley - Mallett - Price - Tate - McKenzie - Crable - O'Connell .....

our offense would be pretty unstoppable with Vincent jackson, edelman, lafell, gronkowski, vereen

The issue to me is not the 3rd round pick, it's a concern that would eat up cap space they need to re-sign Revis and McCourty.

Ivan said:

The issue to me is not the 3rd round pick, it's a concern that would eat up cap space they need to re-sign Revis and McCourty.

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Agreed, that should be the top priority and I would spend money in a pass rusher DE before spend in a receiver, but this possible trade for VJax makes a lot of sense and I believe the timing is also favorable. I believe VJax improves this offense immediately just being on the field demanding double coverage or at least the best CB from the other team. I'm almost giving up on Dobson, unfortunately. Having him and Gronk in the offense will make DC's lose their sleep, and then you have Edelman/Amendola and Vereen also in the mix with probably more space.

The problem in recent playoff losses is that the absence of outside the numbers and physical receivers is that defenses completely shut down the middle of the field and you can't expect Edelman, Amendola, Welker, etc...will win these match-ups. I would include that we don't have a RB capable of creating his own shot but that's for another topic.

If the pats still believe in Dobson down the road. They won't make any deal for a WR any time soon. I don't think they will this year anyways. Their O isn't a problem outside of the OL right now

Ivan said:

The issue to me is not the 3rd round pick, it's a concern that would eat up cap space they need to re-sign Revis and McCourty.

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Yeah, no way I see this happening unless Jackson does something like 3 years, $18M (added to this year) with a decent amount guaranteed. Too much salary left, while we could get out of it by cutting him then the trade price would be too high for a rental.

Also, we need to analyse the circumstances of our conference here. To win San Diego, Colts, and Broncos, that will require an offense capable of scoring a lot, in the 30's, 35's, because they will score, defenses still win games but doesn't matter how good is our defense, inside our conference as it presents today is a battle of offenses. NFC is a different story.

Will Gronk stay healthy a full season?
Will Edelman perform like last year? Was that an exception or the rule?
Will Amendola really produce in a consistent basis?
Will Dobson play significant time this season and how good he really is?

I present here just a few reasonable questions that in my mind already justifies this trade if it really demands a 3rd rounder.

BelichickFan said:

Yeah, no way I see this happening unless Jackson does something like 3 years, $18M (added to this year) with a decent amount guaranteed. Too much salary left, while we could get out of it by cutting him then the trade price would be too high for a rental.

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Heya, BF. Take a look at those 3rd rounders I listed above. Outside of Ridley (and maybe Ryan/Harmon if one feels overly generous), would it really be a concern of yours if we traded any of those for 1 year rental of a player the caliber of VJax?

What I want to know is how signing him would affect the salary cap going into next year when we need to sign Revis and McCourty...

Bobs My Uncle said:

Heya, BF. Take a look at those 3rd rounders I listed above. Outside of Ridley (and maybe Ryan/Harmon if one feels overly generous), would it really be a concern of yours if we traded any of those for 1 year rental of a player the caliber of VJax?

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Not at all except that most WR seem to struggle for a while so I don't know what the rental would get us. But, yeah, if I could do it for our low #3 knowing we'd cut him after the season if he wouldn't re-do his contact I guess I would swallow hard and do it. I don't think we'd have a cap hit next year by cutting him. It would take up about $5-6M of carry over though. Tough call. I think I might bite, Jackson, Gronk, Edelman, LaFelle would be interesting.

TBR said:

What I want to know is how signing him would affect the salary cap going into next year when we need to sign Revis and McCourty...

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About $10M in 2015 and 2016 (each) if he stayed with his current contract.