Run defense is key

PP2 said:

The concept of 'mike' has several different applications, not just a 4-3 one. I was referring to the fact that Mayo occupies a specific spot on the field, which I thought Hightower was going to take over, but they elected to put Collins in his spot.

I didn't agree with that decision.

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Mike actually does mean 43 mlb by definition.
I'm not so sure what you are saying coreect as HT was moved from OLB to ILB. If have to check the tape to see which one eS on mayos side but don't think it's that much of a difference either way.

I believe everyone is correct to be worried about our Run Defense - and overall loss of Mayo - the QB of the D

But it seems to me that a loss of that magnitude, coming in a short week, made for a sloppy Run Defense on Thursday. One hopes that with 10 days to prepare we'll see some improvement.

Preparing for a Thursday game after a loss like that is daunting even for Belichick

I agree. The bears game should be a more accurate test of our run defense post mayo.

Plus in the jets game bb was running a 4-2-5 defense and it got shredded.

Joey007 said:

It's definitely a problem, yes. But it's not as if we haven't stopped any effective rushing attacks this year. We've shown capability of stopping the run in some games.

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Who were the effective rushing attacks we stopped this year? I see 0.

JoeSixPat said:

I believe everyone is correct to be worried about our Run Defense - and overall loss of Mayo - the QB of the D

But it seems to me that a loss of that magnitude, coming in a short week, made for a sloppy Run Defense on Thursday. One hopes that with 10 days to prepare we'll see some improvement.

Preparing for a Thursday game after a loss like that is daunting even for Belichick

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I think your comments make a whole lot of sense, and hopefully they'll be able to fix the issues.

That said, I would imagine that some of the concern stems from the fact that we've now allowed 190+ rushing yards THREE times this year in the first seven games.

In comparison, we allowed 190+ yards rushing a grand total of FIVE times from the entire period of 2005--2013.

When you're giving up 200 yards on the ground like it's nothing, everyone starts to panic. Hopefully, we see the defense that's closer to the one giving up totals in the 70s and 80s.

Ochmed Jones said:

I agree. The bears game should be a more accurate test of our run defense post mayo.

Plus in the jets game bb was running a 4-2-5 defense and it got shredded.

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Yeah, what's the official deal and thinking with this decision from Thursday night? Was it partially due to the fact that T.Wilson played some hybrid LB/S? I honestly don't know the reasoning, so I'm being genuine. @AndyJohnson ? Would you mind taking a moment?

supafly said:

Yeah, what's the official deal and thinking with this decision from Thursday night? Was it partially due to the fact that T.Wilson played some hybrid LB/S? I honestly don't know the reasoning, so I'm being genuine. @AndyJohnson ? Would you mind taking a moment?

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Well, I saw a lot of 3-4 so I don't how to respond to that.
We played a base of big 3-4 with Wilfork and Chris J and DEs and Walker on the nose.
Nink and Chandler J at OLB. HT and JC at ILB.
I would estimate, we played about 50% base and 50% nickel which is more base than normal.
I did notice that when the Jets changed personnel, Dennard and Walker would switch in and out, so it seemed that we did the basic 3 wides gets nickel strategy.

those thursday games just seem to be abit "different" than the other games. I mean theyve all been blowouts except for the patriots game where the defense looked absolutely gassed out there after having played 4 days before.

they still did a pretty good job against buffalo once mayo went out. So i will reserve judgement until after this week.

supafly said:

I don't mean this to sound mean or disrespectful since I'm playfully jabbing you and always enjoy your posts, but that dry Arizona air must really be getting to you

According to Wilfork, Hightower, Walker (in some form)--"there were communication issues that are unacceptable. We have to correct them moving forward Sometimes it involved setting the edge, sometimes it was a combination of things."

According to Belichick--"We just didn't do things well. Sometimes it was just technique stuff. We have to coach better as well....all of it. Put it on me."

According to AzPatsFan--"It was a brilliant pre-planned move on the part of Belichick to purposedly bait the Jets into playing to their one and only strength, by allowing them to control the clock ('since the Pats didn't want Brady to get killed by having the ball') and run the ball for 4-8 yds at a time. We knew we'd easily create big touchdown plays on drives of only 3-4 plays, and we knew that we could easily score at will against their excellent defense whenever we wanted with limited time of possession."

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When has Belichick or his players ever REVEALED a game plan, or information, that they might want to use again, someday, If they can find a DOPE dumb enough to use the Rope-a-Dope against.

For this game, the Pats O-LIne was in a miserable state, having to start nobodies in the interior against a good Jets interior DL. Plus could BB realistically expect to stop the Jets run with only 2 LBs and no time to adapt to Mayo's injury? Of course not, so it was time for unorthodox defense. Kind of similar to what he did against Buffalo and Thurman; and Peyton last season.

BTW, his Buffalo SB game plan is in Canton's Hall of Fame.

Allow no very long runs, be prepared to handle the pass and play option pass, with your pass defense in and not playing run defense. Expect to outscore them with your much superior Offense, but don't expect long drives without your O-line messing up, so go for unexpected long pass plays and drives with only a few plays.

Any sane Coach facing a successful opponents rushing game, would have put in his anti-run Defense. Bill and Matt never did.

W-H-Y ???? That is the evidence that something else was going on.

Ochmed Jones said:

I agree. The bears game should be a more accurate test of our run defense post mayo.

Plus in the jets game bb was running a 4-2-5 defense and it got shredded.

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Ochmed,

Thanks.

I thought I was the only one to observe that seemingly strange lineup.

AzPatsFan said:

BTW, his Buffalo SB game plan is in Canton's Hall of Fame.

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Everyone knows that the SB25 gameplan against the high powered offensive attack of Buffalo, Thurman Thomas, and the insanely speedy and versatile WRs was in the hall of fame. One of the reasons why it's in the HOF is due to the fact that they limited Buffalo to 20 minutes TOP. What you're suggesting is the complete opposite!!!

No coach is going to purposely put themselves behind the 8 ball by hoping to score quickly on limited possessions consisting of "3-4 plays" (another one of your insane theories).

Suggesting that they purposely allowed the Jets to rush for "4 to 8 yards per play" to let them control the game clock so that "Brady wouldn't get killed back there" (OL had been playing much improved, so that doesn't make any sense at all) is just.....crazy.

No head coach in their right mind is going to purposely allow the opposition to control the clock and run the ball down their throats. You are taking this conspiracy theory way too far. Bill Belichick doesn't play scared and he hasn't lost his mind by purposely letting a one-dimensional team have their way all night.

AndyJohnson said:

Well, I saw a lot of 3-4 so I don't how to respond to that.

I would estimate, we played about 50% base and 50% nickel which is more base than normal.

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There are a select few posters who are beating this "4-2-5" drum like it was their one and only alignment.

As usual, bad information gets spread around the forum like wildfire--which is why I asked for your opinion.

I did not record the game, nor have I seen many articles explaining the defensive snap counts, so I wanted to know "why" this would have been used as the primary alignment.

supafly said:

There are a select few posters who are beating this "4-2-5" drum like it was their one and only alignment.

As usual, bad information gets spread around the forum like wildfire--which is why I asked for your opinion.

I did not record the game, nor have I seen many articles explaining the defensive snap counts, so I wanted to know "why" this would have been used as the primary alignment.

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I haven't analyzed the game. But I pay a lot of attention to who is on the field when I'm at the game. I couldn't give you exact percentages when leaving the stadium but is be close.
The snap counts confirm it too.

This is like week 1 when people wee complaining that jones was converted to a2 gap 34 DE and week 2 when they proclaimed bb must have listened to them when we played the exact sane scheme both games.

AzPatsFan said:

When has Belichick or his players ever REVEALED a game plan, or information, that they might want to use again, someday, If they can find a DOPE dumb enough to use the Rope-a-Dope against.

For this game, the Pats O-LIne was in a miserable state, having to start nobodies in the interior against a good Jets interior DL. Plus could BB realistically expect to stop the Jets run with only 2 LBs and no time to adapt to Mayo's injury? Of course not, so it was time for unorthodox defense. Kind of similar to what he did against Buffalo and Thurman; and Peyton last season.

BTW, his Buffalo SB game plan is in Canton's Hall of Fame.

Allow no very long runs, be prepared to handle the pass and play option pass, with your pass defense in and not playing run defense. Expect to outscore them with your much superior Offense, but don't expect long drives without your O-line messing up, so go for unexpected long pass plays and drives with only a few plays.

Any sane Coach facing a successful opponents rushing game, would have put in his anti-run Defense. Bill and Matt never did.

W-H-Y ???? That is the evidence that something else was going on.

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Dude they tried hard to stop the run. They played the "run stopping" personnel group more in this game than in any other maybe more than the other 6 combined.
You are arguing that what didn't happen happened.

New England Patriots Defense

NFL Team Opponent Rushing Yards per Game

2013 - 28th

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-rushing-yards-per-game?date=2014-02-02

2014 - 24th

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-rushing-yards-per-game

Joey007 said:

We've shown capability of stopping the run in some games.

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Not so sure about that. Petersonless Vikings don't count (especially having deactivated him the day before). Bengals were down 20-3 & 34-10 before they knew what hit them & had to abandon the run. Raiders - they are the last ranked rushing offense in the NFL. I guess if you want to hang your hat on the Bills - have at it.

supafly said:

That said, I would imagine that some of the concern stems from the fact that we've now allowed 190+ rushing yards THREE times this year in the first seven games.

In comparison, we allowed 190+ yards rushing a grand total of FIVE times from the entire period of 2005--2013.

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That's one hell of a statistic and should be a major cause of concern.

AndyJohnson said:

Dude they tried hard to stop the run. They played the "run stopping" personnel group more in this game than in any other maybe more than the other 6 combined.
You are arguing that what didn't happen happened.

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Az's contention is pure hogwash, but saying they played run stopping personnel when there were a grand total of 5 snaps all game with more than 2 LBs in the field isn't any more accurate.

They slapped together a quickie plan on short notice and it didn't work because Jamie Collins is lousy against the run and apparently asking 330 lb men to play 100+ snaps in 4 days is a bit much.

Oswlek said:

Az's contention is pure hogwash, but saying they played run stopping personnel when there were a grand total of 5 snaps all game with more than 2 LBs in the field isn't any more accurate.

They slapped together a quickie plan on short notice and it didn't work because Jamie Collins is lousy against the run and apparently asking 330 lb men to play 100+ snaps in 4 days is a bit much.

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They played the best run d personnel they have. It was 3 300+ lb DL plus 4 lbs. Nink jones HT and Collins.
That's the point in fact they added an extra dl and took out skinner.
You simply cannot argue the fact that they played a more run heavy scheme than they have all year.
I'm not sure where you get that they played 2 LBs unless you didn't see the game.

AndyJohnson said:

Dude they tried hard to stop the run. They played the "run stopping" personnel group more in this game than in any other maybe more than the other 6 combined.
You are arguing that what didn't happen happened.

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They seldom if ever played fewer than 5 DBs and 2 LBs. You can call it a 3-4 by renaming the DEs as LBs, but they weren't. There were 2 off the line LBs.