Idle thoughts: the whew edition.

RIpats88 said:

cincinnati, buffalo and the Jets all have great front 7's. Which is why I feel that the OL has done a sold job thus far.they've kept brady standing enough to put up

43pts, 37pts and 27pts

in most games putting up those kind of points will lead to a win

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We are in fact, giving up less sacks at this point in the season, than we were, last season.

PP2 said:

We are in fact, giving up less sacks at this point in the season, than we were, last season.

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Somewhat misleading, as this is right around the time we got Gronk back last year. Having him as an option means Brady doesn't have to hold the ball for as long. That said, I see improvement every week from the OL, especially considering the injuries and quality of DL they've been facing.

PP2 said:

We are in fact, giving up less sacks at this point in the season, than we were, last season.

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Belichick's rebuilding of the O-line is working. Connolly is a much better veteran at Guard, even if not a youngster. Stork and Fleming appear to be keepers, and probably better than average O-Linemen, after gaining some experience.

But for this game, they didn't have Connoly, Stork or Fleming. Instead they had to start Devey, Wendell, and Kline in the interior. Hardly a dominating crew. Emergency situations create emergency, unorthodox answers. No one is better at that than Bill Belichick.

Gawd I love these homer posts!
I'm not trying to be funny. I do love them.

Sicilian said:

Somewhat misleading, as this is right around the time we got Gronk back last year. Having him as an option means Brady doesn't have to hold the ball for as long. That said, I see improvement every week from the OL, especially considering the injuries and quality of DL they've been facing.

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I don't think so- a difference of 7 sacks can't be attributed to just Gronk's presence in the offense.

I just stopped by to see why this thread is still in use. So I might as well add my two cents.

1. Its interesting to see that we've cut the number of sacks allowed by almost a third, while at the same time we've had about 20% more sacks on the other side.

2. Its been very hard to evaluate the OL just on the basis of sacks. QB hits, IMHO should also be included and I don't know the numbers on that.

3. I've seen a number of people minimize what the OL has accomplished by saying, its because Brady gets rid of the ball so quickly. While that's a real factor, 2 things have to ALSO be considered.

a. The Pats OL has the additional burden of NOT having a mobile QB. If they have a guy get by them, its a sack. They aren't going to be saved by a QB who can dance away. Also DE's and DT's all can rush to the "spot" and know that Brady will be there. That don't have "control rush" in fear Brady will get a corner.

b. The Pats have lengthened their pass game this season. More balls are going down field. Thus more time is needed to get a pass away. The quick release dink and dunk is much less prevalent.

4. This isn't to say that it couldn't be a lot better both in the pass and run game, but its not the hot mess that some people would have you believe.....at least when you compare it to last season's "hot mess"

patfanken said:

Its been very hard to evaluate the OL just on the basis of sacks. QB hits, IMHO should also be included and I don't know the numbers on that.

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Through 7 games this year the Pats' OL has allowed 30 QB hits:

Dolphins: 6
Vikings: 2
Raiders: 6
Chiefs: 2
Bengals: 1
Bills: 6
Jets: 7

Through 7 games in 2013 the Pats' OL allowed 38 QB hits:

Bills: 9
Jets: 1
Bucs: 8
Falcons: 2
Bengals: 8
Saints: 7
Jets: 3

So Brady's getting hit about 20% less so far this year. I don't know the stats as far as how many times he's been pressured.

mayoclinic said:

Through 7 games this year the Pats' OL has allowed 30 QB hits:

Dolphins: 6
Vikings: 2
Raiders: 6
Chiefs: 2
Bengals: 1
Bills: 6
Jets: 7

Through 7 games in 2013 the Pats' OL allowed 38 QB hits:

Bills: 9
Jets: 1
Bucs: 8
Falcons: 2
Bengals: 8
Saints: 7
Jets: 3

So Brady's getting hit about 20% less so far this year. I don't know the stats as far as how many times he's been pressured.

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The statistical evidence as it appears, on sacks/game, sacks/attempts, hits/game, etc. always seem to confirm the Pats O-line is substantially improved in pass blocking, despite using raw players. As they gain experience, it should get even better.

Brewskies said:

Nice summary patfanken.

Do you think we should add a thanks to the ref that pulled Hightower from standing over the snapper on the last play with the field goal attempt for 58 yards that Jones blocked? That should have been a 5 yard interference penalty putting the kick at 53 yards!

I think so we caught a big break.

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Three things (four if you add the fact that I am now believing that you're an obvious troll):

1) Hightower was not staying in front of the center/long snapper. He was hovered there momentarily to get the play call in to everyone. This was confirmed by multiple sources when reviewing the tape, including NFL VP of officiating Dean Blandino. The only way it would've been a penalty as you suggest is if the ball was snapped while Hightower was lined up there.

2) The refs and league do this for everyone...all 32 teams. Even if Hightower would've ended up stayed there (which he obviously wasn't), the ref tapping him as a reminder to shift is something that is done for everyone. No special treatment would have been received. This was confirmed by NYJ coach Rex Ryan, the on field official who tapped him prematurely, as well as VP of officiating Blandino.

3) Even if you're correct and Hightower would've done something wrong, the call would only have been 5 yards. Last time I checked, they ended up blocking the kick anyway, and even if they hadn't a 53 yard FG in Foxborough isn't exactly more than a 50/50 proposition at best. Lots of things would have had to happen for us to "thank" the refs in any form.

PatsWickedPissah said:

On the Jest last drive, coach of the week failed to call a time out (clock was stopped) so the Gods upstairs had a chance to review that bobbled non-catch on the sidelines. Failure to do that could have cost us the game.

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Agreed, although some feel that it's unfair to blame Belichick. While I would agree that it's not his "fault," it's also part of his job description to catch officiating errors.

We see coaches around the NFL call timeout to allow the officials more time/a better look on plays that should be automatically reviewed all weekend long. It's nothing new, and it will continue. The Patriots poor system of catching poor officiating calls in time to challenge (or in this case, call timeout) should be questioned. Hopefully, it is something they improve upon.

AzPatsFan said:

What did you think of the Rope-a-dope against Peyton last year?

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The difference with Peyton (or the HOF gameplan in Super Bowl 25) is that both Peyton and Jim Kelly had the most high-powered offensive attack in the entire league at that time. Allowing them to run limited the quick strike attacks seen with all of their talented targets in the passing game. In other words, it was the lesser of two evils in a "choose your poison" kind of way.

One of the worst QBs in the league Geno Smith, and his "weapons" (I use the term loosely) of Bilal Powell, Jeremy Kerley, Jeff Cumberland, and Eric Decker do not qualify for any kind of comparison here. As a matter of fact, the Jets offense was dead last in the NFL coming into this past game, and continue to be extremely one-dimensional.

supafly said:

Three things (four if you add the fact that I am now believing that you're an obvious troll):

1) Hightower was not staying in front of the center/long snapper. He was hovered there momentarily to get the play call in to everyone. This was confirmed by multiple sources when reviewing the tape, including NFL VP of officiating Dean Blandino. The only way it would've been a penalty as you suggest is if the ball was snapped while Hightower was lined up there.

2) The refs and league do this for everyone...all 32 teams. Even if Hightower would've ended up stayed there (which he obviously wasn't), the ref tapping him as a reminder to shift is something that is done for everyone. No special treatment would have been received. This was confirmed by NYJ coach Rex Ryan, the on field official who tapped him prematurely, as well as VP of officiating Blandino.

3) Even if you're correct and Hightower would've done something wrong, the call would only have been 5 yards. Last time I checked, they ended up blocking the kick anyway, and even if they hadn't a 53 yard FG in Foxborough isn't exactly more than a 50/50 proposition at best. Lots of things would have had to happen for us to "thank" the refs in any form.

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You believe what you want with your immature post. I am not a troll but that's a matter of opinion. Have a nice day.

Brewskies said:

You believe what you want with your immature post. I am not a troll but that's a matter of opinion. Have a nice day.

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I apologize if you seriously aren't here to get people riled up, but I'm sure you can understand why someone may come to that conclusion. You certainly have a lot of very negative things to say.

Other than that, I gave you facts about Hightower only being lined up there for a second or two while relaying the play call, the comments by the NFL (and Rex Ryan himself), and specified the fact that the refs tap everyone on the shoulder anyway.

If your intent is not bad, then I hope to have more communication with you in the future and apologize for pissing you off.

Do you think we should add a thanks to the ref that pulled Hightower from standing over the snapper on the last play with the field goal attempt for 58 yards that Jones blocked? That should have been a 5 yard interference penalty putting the kick at 53 yards!

a 5 yard what?

supafly said:

The difference with Peyton (or the HOF gameplan in Super Bowl 25) is that both Peyton and Jim Kelly had the most high-powered offensive attack in the entire league at that time. Allowing them to run limited the quick strike attacks seen with all of their talented targets in the passing game. In other words, it was the lesser of two evils in a "choose your poison" kind of way.

One of the worst QBs in the league Geno Smith, and his "weapons" (I use the term loosely) of Bilal Powell, Jeremy Kerley, Jeff Cumberland, and Eric Decker do not qualify for any kind of comparison here. As a matter of fact, the Jets offense was dead last in the NFL coming into this past game, and continue to be extremely one-dimensional.

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It was a pick-your-poison with the Jets too. But in this case the injuries had a major difference, BB could have played a conventional run defense, and got run into the ground. Sooner or later a RB would breakthrough and run big for a TD. Similarly a Run heavy Defense would have yielded a play action long pass completion for another score.

Doing what you can expect to actually accomplish, is what BB did. He chose the lesser poison, giving up 10 yard max runs on the interior, and no long runs or passes.

AzPatsFan said:

What did you think of the Rope-a-dope against Peyton last year?

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Your analysis shows that Belichick treated the passing game of Geno and the jets in the same way as Manning and the broncos. I have a poor memory sometimes. But I suspect that this one of the worst analysis of the year.

betterthanthealternative said:

As much as I consider Ryan to be a walking, breathing character flaw of a human being, I came away impressed with how much defense he is able to muster with the personnel he has. Why in the world the Pats weren't able to consistently march down the field against a half dozen second and third string NFL players is a tribute to the Jets' coaching.

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I thought the Pats offense was fairly effective and that the problems came from the Jets offense keeping the ball for long stretches of time.

1960Pats said:

I thought the Pats offense was fairly effective and
that the problems came from the Jets offense keeping the ball for long stretches of time.

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When a defense gives up over 200 yards on the ground, you can credit that to the offense being among the very best run offenses in the league, certainly a playoff team; or you can ascribe the situation to a very poor defensive effort. 200 yards is extraordinary.

The reality is that the patriots gave up 190 yards about 5 times in the last 5 seasons. This year alone, the total is 3. Something is seriously wrong with our run defense.

There might be another reason for giving up so many running yards. If the opponent had one the very best passing offenses in the league, we might have spent our efforts stopping the pass and dared them to beat us with the run. Of course that excuse would mean that we treated the jets offense as if it were that of the broncos.
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Fans understand that team will have some poor efforts during the season and still be SB capable. So far, it seems that we have had 3 poor efforts resulting in 2 losses, and a win that might have been called back with a penalty on the last play.

1960Pats said:

I thought the Pats offense was fairly effective and that the problems came from the Jets offense keeping the ball for long stretches of time.

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What you say is true.

But Bill's efforts to create a working and effectively impenetrable Third Line of Defense, with his near constant 5 and 6 DB formations, was pure Genius, a true Maestro at work.

He recognized that the Jets were going to attack the interior D-line with Siliga gone, an Mayo now on IR, too. He also foresaw that he couldn't stop it with the players available. With the ersatz O-line likely he couldn't play ball-control, keep a way either.

He simply chose to do what he could and neutralize the effect of Jets runs. And he did.

mgteich said:

Your analysis shows that Belichick treated the passing game of Geno and the jets in the same way as Manning and the broncos. I have a poor memory sometimes. But I suspect that this one of the worst analysis of the year.

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Not at all. You missed the point entirely. He merely neutralized the effect of the Jets good run game.