I don't care.I can't stand it!

I'm not smart enough to do the cap numbers, but basically I don't get the impression that Elway has a "Plan B." Plans A through Z have been and remain to win a SuperBowl with Peyton somewhere between the 2012 and 2015 seasons. Two down. Two to go.

mayoclinic said:

Comparing the past 6 drafts, with the clear hits underlined:
...
2010:
- Patriots: Devin McCourty (27), Rob Gronkowski (42), Jermaine Cunningham (53), Brandon Spikes (62) (+/-), Taylor Price (90), Aaron Hernandez (113), Zoltan Mesko (150), Ted Larsen (205), Thomas Welch (208), Brandon Deaderick (247), Kade Weston (248), Zac Robinson (250) (Hernandez was a clear hit at the level he was drafted; no one anticipated the level of issues that would later arise)
....

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While I see the point you are making, you do have to admit that underlining Hernandez' name in the context of "hits" definitely brings with it an element of "dark humor."

PatsFanSince74 said:

While I see the point you are making, you do have to admit that underlining Hernandez' name in the context of "hits" definitely brings with it an element of "dark humor."

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Hernandez, even with the baggage that he was known to have, was a terrific pick at 113, and he gave 3 years of terrific play without any obvious off-field issues. In retrospect, obviously, a huge mistake, especially giving him a big 2nd contract. But he was a professional sociopath who fooled everyone.

Patradomous said:

First things first they are my New England Patriots too. I hate the Broncos.

If finish higher means higher seeding and or furthest to go in the playoffs you are on. By the way Broncos getting knocked off by either KC,Indy, or SD in the divisional round would not be surprise. But we are on definatley.
You will get a receipt from me if i lose too.

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With fans like you, this team would be using and winning weekly for non support.

Yes, I meant the team that goes the furthest in the Playoffs, should they both go down in wild card or divisional, tie breaker would be head to head.

It's a bet dude.

How about just a little recognition and appreciation for what you have seen here since the day BB took over??

rochrist said:

Saunders IS better than Decker. Decker is softer than butter. And TJ Ward is replacing Champ Bailey who was clearly on his last legs. I notice you don't mention Demarcus Ware. If you don't think the additions of Talib, Ware and Ward, not to mention Von Miller being back fundamentally change that defense from the one that played in the SB, I don't know what to tell you.

None of this reflects on my opinion of the Pats, who I still think can give the Broncos a run for their money if they behave as they usually do which is to continually improve as the playoffs approach. But pretending that the Broncos aren't a very strong team that will be a challenge to overcome is, frankly, whistling past the graveyard.

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Ahhhh no Sanders is NOT better than Decker. Also, "....incleveland" might be a good indication of why it's obvious your ability to evaluate safety play is not exactly inspiring.

Perhaps your lack of familiarity with the AFC North makes your analysis problematic.

Besides, the fundamental question revolves around the Denver offense. If you don't get that......it means you are looking the wrong way.

Here's the point. Denver is a strong team. If they execute and the Patriots don't Denver wins. If Denver doesn't execute and the Patriots do.....Patriots win. Nothing in these additions you over estimate change any fundamental balance of what has transpired or how the units both match up.

mayoclinic said:

Hernandez, even with the baggage that he was known to have, was a terrific pick at 113, and he gave 3 years of terrific play without any obvious off-field issues. In retrospect, obviously, a huge mistake, especially giving him a big 2nd contract. But he was a professional sociopath who fooled everyone.

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Spikes was a hit too, the run defense hasn't been the same. He may not have had the speed to play three downs but he was a tone setter on the first two.

fgssand said:

How about just a little recognition and appreciation for what you have seen here since the day BB took over??

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Brother I posted my appreciation many times.There is no other team in the history of the league that has done what the Pats have done over this last 14 years. We talk about winning SBs while other teams talk about making the playoffs.BB is probably the best coach ever.And 1 more SB win will cement tha along with Brady being the best QB ever that's why I m pissed about what they've done this year.

rochrist said:

Saunders IS better than Decker. Decker is softer than butter. And TJ Ward is replacing Champ Bailey who was clearly on his last legs. I notice you don't mention Demarcus Ware. If you don't think the additions of Talib, Ware and Ward, not to mention Von Miller being back fundamentally change that defense from the one that played in the SB, I don't know what to tell you.

None of this reflects on my opinion of the Pats, who I still think can give the Broncos a run for their money if they behave as they usually do which is to continually improve as the playoffs approach. But pretending that the Broncos aren't a very strong team that will be a challenge to overcome is, frankly, whistling past the graveyard.

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Through the first six games (Decker last year and Sanders this year), Decker and Sanders have similar numbers:

Decker: 34 catches for 477 yards (14.0 YPC average) and 2 TDs
Sanders: 38 catches for 514 yards (13.5 YPC average) and 1 TD

Last year, Mannng distributed the ball to Welker more (he had one catch last week) which might be the difference.

So all this talk about Sanders being much better than Decker this year than Decker was last year is a fallacy. And Decker had some of his biggest games later in the season (174 yards and 4 TDs vs. KC, 150 yards and a TD vs. Indy).

Decker may be soft, but has Sanders shown he is any tougher? Sanders didn't show that in Pittsburgh and yet to prove either way in Denver.

mayoclinic said:

Hernandez, even with the baggage that he was known to have, was a terrific pick at 113, and he gave 3 years of terrific play without any obvious off-field issues. In retrospect, obviously, a huge mistake, especially giving him a big 2nd contract. But he was a professional sociopath who fooled everyone.

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Yeah, that's why I said "While I see the point you are making..."

This Broncos D is better then last year. Talib is playing pretty well and not hurt (yet). Ware and Miller are just beasts off the edge. They get great pass rush and play D. This Broncos team is better then last year. Maybe not running O. But better all around no question

When they come play us we are going to need an answer for those two off the edges. Not sure what that answer is

Brady_to_Moss said:

This Broncos D is better then last year. Talib is playing pretty well and not hurt (yet). Ware and Miller are just beasts off the edge. They get great pass rush and play D. This Broncos team is better then last year. Maybe not running O. But better all around no question

When they come play us we are going to need an answer for those two off the edges. Not sure what that answer is

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They are better on defense, but barring last night, they are not as good on offense. The question is whether the offense decline will be offset by the better defense. Unfortunately, they have hit a lot of teams at the right time and haven't been tested like they probably should have been at this point. I still think they are overrated. They are a top team, but people are way over-inflating them.

patsfanincleveland said:

Ahhhh no Sanders is NOT better than Decker. Also, "....incleveland" might be a good indication of why it's obvious your ability to evaluate safety play is not exactly inspiring.

Perhaps your lack of familiarity with the AFC North makes your analysis problematic.

Besides, the fundamental question revolves around the Denver offense. If you don't get that......it means you are looking the wrong way.

Here's the point. Denver is a strong team. If they execute and the Patriots don't Denver wins. If Denver doesn't execute and the Patriots do.....Patriots win. Nothing in these additions you over estimate change any fundamental balance of what has transpired or how the units both match up.

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So it's your contention that Champ Bailey was better last year and would have been better this year?

rochrist said:

So it's your contention that Champ Bailey was better last year and would have been better this year?

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Who cares....Ward sucks. Why exactly do you think the Browns let him walk?

Rob0729 said:

They are better on defense, but barring last night, they are not as good on offense.

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Are you on paint??
How the hell do you figure they are worse on Offense??? Square that for me will you.
If your talking about Moreno you dont need Moreno when defenses are in 5 and dime defenses all night.

patsfanincleveland said:

Who cares....Ward sucks. Why exactly do you think the Browns let him walk?

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Because not every team can keep every player? Why did the Broncos let Decker walk? Why did the Pats let Talib and Blount walk?

Patradomous said:

Are you on paint??
How the hell do you figure they are worse on Offense??? Square that for me will you.
If your talking about Moreno you dont need Moreno when defenses are in 5 and dime defenses all night.

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Hillman looks pretty good too. Early days yet on him but he's averaging 4.4 yds a carry and he looked very quick last night.

Patradomous said:

Are you on paint??
How the hell do you figure they are worse on Offense??? Square that for me will you.
If your talking about Moreno you dont need Moreno when defenses are in 5 and dime defenses all night.

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Other than the fact they scored more points last year (37.9 PPG in 2013 vs. 31.5 PPG in 2014), had more yards per game (457.3 YPG in 2013 and 395 YPG in 2014), better converting third downs (46.3% in 2013 vs. 44.3% in 2014), and almost every significant category for offense; I concede they are clearly as good on offense.

Yes, I am on paint that I think they are not as good because they are scoring almost a TD less per game and getting over 60 yards less per game this year compared to last year. It seems pretty obvious who are paying attention and not listening to the media love fest that they are not as good. And I haven't brought up how their offense has not been consistent in games.

Some of the passing numbers are up slightly. Manning has the same completion percentage for both 2013 and 2014. They have slightly more passing yards per attempt (8.3 in 2013 and 8.5 in 2015). But the passing TD is down slightly (3.44 per game average in 2013 and 3.17 in 2014).

rochrist said:

Hillman looks pretty good too. Early days yet on him but he's averaging 4.4 yds a carry and he looked very quick last night.

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Exactley he just the type of back you need to keep defenses honest.
Sanders gives them a quick look too. hes outstanding and the Pats could have had him for another half a mil. Instead they're trying for years to coach up the Kembrell Thompkins of the world with 13 million or whatever under the cap.

Rob0729 said:

They are better on defense, but barring last night, they are not as good on offense. The question is whether the offense decline will be offset by the better defense. Unfortunately, they have hit a lot of teams at the right time and haven't been tested like they probably should have been at this point. I still think they are overrated. They are a top team, but people are way over-inflating them.

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They don't need to be as good as last year on O if their D plays like that that's the thing


They will end up beating the Chargers Thursday night. But lose in SD. Chargers needed that W vs Chiefs IMO and will be a huge loss in determining the AFC West

reflexblue said:

Spikes was a hit too, the run defense hasn't been the same. He may not have had the speed to play three downs but he was a tone setter on the first two.

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I really hate that "on the first two" stuff. The NFL is a pass first league. You have to be able to defend the pass on first and second down too.

I think the bigger problem is that our DL doesn't get good penetration and the RB gets a free run into the second level. Well that coupled with Linebackers that doesn't trust what their instincts and what they see. They basically wait until the running back are right in front of them and they are absolutely triple checked sure of who is the ball carrier before they move to tackle. That's where Spikes would help a bit.