Seattle Seahawks trade WR Percy Harvin to the Jets

zydecochris said:

Two really good points.

However, I think it depends on the context of the fighting. Steve Smith has the reputation of being ultra-competive (as well as a genuinely tough dude) who would run through a wall to win.

We don't know the circumstances of Harvin's fights, but he hardly has the reputation as a tough, ultra-competitive win-at-all-costs type.

Plus, Harvin is reputed to have taken himself out of the game and then refused to go back in when the coaches asked him to last Sunday (and perhaps not-so-coincidently he was traded 5 days later). Can you imagine an ultra-competitive warrior like Steve Smith doing something like that?

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What's happening in Seattle is textbook post-move smearing, and we've seen it done here in New England often enough that we should know better than to buy into it all. We certainly don't have anything approaching the whole story regarding the game where he allegedly took himself out.

And, as for the Steve Smith comparison, Smith is the player who's actually been suspended for fighting, on two separate occasions, not Harvin.

Wheelman said:

Honest question. Can Julius Thomas block?

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He definitely had some issues with his blocking coming out of college as a 4th round pick, where he was pretty much used on the basketball team due to his size and hands.

All in all though--he's often been compared to some other excellent receiving TEs such as Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez, who also struggled with their blocking early on in their careers.

At this point he'd probably be considered "adequate" in the blocking area. That said, he has improved dramatically in the minds of many, since it was considered to be a major weakness that prevented him from even seeing the field. He supposedly made some major strides in this area in the summer of last year (2013) during TC.

Deus Irae said:

What's happening in Seattle is textbook post-move smearing, and we've seen it done here in New England often enough that we should know better than to buy into it all. We certainly don't have anything approaching the whole story regarding the game where he allegedly took himself out.

And, as for the Steve Smith comparison, Smith is the player who's actually been suspended for fighting, on two separate occasions, not Harvin.

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Fair enough. Whenever you dump a player the GM will want to justify the move, often by leaks, and this is especially so when the GM (over)pays so much for the player and then dump him for so little, it obviously doesn't make the GM look very good.

I would still rather have a team of Steve Smith types as opposed to a team of Percy Harvin types, but that is just my opinion. Surprisingly, BB hasn't solicited my opinion on personnel matters yet.

zydecochris said:

Fair enough. Whenever you dump a player the GM will want to justify the move, often by leaks, and this is especially so when the GM (over)pays so much for the player and then dump him for so little, it obviously doesn't make the GM look very good.

I would still rather have a team of Steve Smith types as opposed to a team of Percy Harvin types, but that is just my opinion. Surprisingly, BB hasn't solicited my opinion on personnel matters yet.

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I hear you. I would have loved having Smith on the Patriots. It sucks that he decided to catch balloons from Flacco instead of heading further up I-95.

SVN said:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ition-of-harvin-could-be-a-coup-for-the-jets/

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This whole "the Vikings gave up on Harvin because he wasn't worth the headaches" narrative is really stupid. They didn't give up on him. They accepted a king's ransom for a guy who they weren't going to be able to re-sign the following offseason.

This trade paid immediate dividends for the Seahawks, as their newly peaceful locker room helped lead them to a blowout victory over the Rams.

Deus Irae said:

What's happening in Seattle is textbook post-move smearing, and we've seen it done here in New England often enough that we should know better than to buy into it all. We certainly don't have anything approaching the whole story regarding the game where he allegedly took himself out.

And, as for the Steve Smith comparison, Smith is the player who's actually been suspended for fighting, on two separate occasions, not Harvin.

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Sure everything being said about Harvin is all made up. He was a model citizen but Seattle just couldn't pass up that 6th round pick.

AndyJohnson said:

Sure everything being said about Harvin is all made up. He was a model citizen but Seattle just couldn't pass up that 6th round pick.

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The Seahawks - the organization in the NFL most lauded for their personnel decisions and acumen over the past 4 years - apparently decided that dumping Harvin was addition by subtraction, despite spending lavishly for him just 18 months ago. They reportedly sought multiple trade partners over several weeks, and according to Jay Glazer they would have cut him if they hadn't been able to work out a trade, for a day 3 pick.

The 5-1 Philadelphia Eagles, under the very astute Chip Kelly and Howie Roseman, apparently decided that dumping DeSean Jackson was addition by subtraction. No one was willing to trade for him.

There is no doubt that both Harvin and Jackson have skill sets that could be useful to their former teams, or to any team in the NFL. But they both came with baggage, and with big cap hits. Apparently the guys who run these very successful teams have a different view of their respective value than do the armchair quarterbacks. They obviously must be incompetent.

The Washington Redskins are clearly thriving with Jackson, and I'm sure the Jets will similarly turn things around now that Harvin is on board.

mayoclinic said:

The Seahawks - the organization in the NFL most lauded for their personnel decisions and acumen over the past 4 years - apparently decided that dumping Harvin was addition by subtraction, despite spending lavishly for him just 18 months ago. They reportedly sought multiple trade partners over several weeks, and according to Jay Glazer they would have cut him if they hadn't been able to work out a trade, for a day 3 pick.

The 5-1 Philadelphia Eagles, under the very astute Chip Kelly and Howie Roseman, apparently decided that dumping DeSean Jackson was addition by subtraction. No one was willing to trade for him.

There is no doubt that both Harvin and Jackson have skill sets that could be useful to their former teams, or to any team in the NFL. But they both came with baggage, and with big cap hits. Apparently the guys who run these very successful teams have a different view of their respective value than do the armchair quarterbacks. They obviously must be incompetent.

The Washington Redskins are clearly thriving with Jackson, and I'm sure the Jets will similarly turn things around now that Harvin is on board.

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Using the Redskins as an example is extremely disingenuous and, given that a 3 win team last year has 2 wins already, even with it's QB1 on the shelf, it's far too early even to use as a disingenuous example.

Deus Irae said:

Using the Redskins as an example is extremely disingenuous and, given that a 3 win team last year has 2 wins already, even with it's QB1 on the shelf, it's far too early even to use as a disingenuous example.

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My point wasn't about the Redskins, and certainly DeSean Jackson has done his part so far in terms of productivity. Similarly, picking up Percy Harvin could turn out to be a fine move for the Jets, though I doubt he will do enough to make a profound difference to a team with many flaws (like the Redskins). But two of the better organizations in the NFL decided to part ways with these guys, despite their undeniable skill sets.

mayoclinic said:

The Seahawks - the organization in the NFL most lauded for their personnel decisions and acumen over the past 4 years - apparently decided that dumping Harvin was addition by subtraction, despite spending lavishly for him just 18 months ago. They reportedly sought multiple trade partners over several weeks, and according to Jay Glazer they would have cut him if they hadn't been able to work out a trade, for a day 3 pick.

The 5-1 Philadelphia Eagles, under the very astute Chip Kelly and Howie Roseman, apparently decided that dumping DeSean Jackson was addition by subtraction. No one was willing to trade for him.

There is no doubt that both Harvin and Jackson have skill sets that could be useful to their former teams, or to any team in the NFL. But they both came with baggage, and with big cap hits. Apparently the guys who run these very successful teams have a different view of their respective value than do the armchair quarterbacks. They obviously must be incompetent.

The Washington Redskins are clearly thriving with Jackson, and I'm sure the Jets will similarly turn things around now that Harvin is on board.

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Of course, but this conflicts with the idea that in order to judge a move you must assume the motivation is a lie, the team simply made a stupid decision that the Armchair GM knows better than, and that as a rule, NFL teams are out to screw players for no real reason, then make up things about them to cover the tracks.

I'm sorry, but your objective approach with no prior agenda to promote by shoehorning this into it is just not an acceptable use of this board.

mayoclinic said:

The Seahawks - the organization in the NFL most lauded for their personnel decisions and acumen over the past 4 years - apparently decided that dumping Harvin was addition by subtraction, despite spending lavishly for him just 18 months ago. They reportedly sought multiple trade partners over several weeks, and according to Jay Glazer they would have cut him if they hadn't been able to work out a trade, for a day 3 pick.

The 5-1 Philadelphia Eagles, under the very astute Chip Kelly and Howie Roseman, apparently decided that dumping DeSean Jackson was addition by subtraction. No one was willing to trade for him.

There is no doubt that both Harvin and Jackson have skill sets that could be useful to their former teams, or to any team in the NFL. But they both came with baggage, and with big cap hits. Apparently the guys who run these very successful teams have a different view of their respective value than do the armchair quarterbacks. They obviously must be incompetent.

The Washington Redskins are clearly thriving with Jackson, and I'm sure the Jets will similarly turn things around now that Harvin is on board.

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Addition by subtraction. The player was deemed by the organization as a distraction with a high salary cap hit.

mayoclinic said:

My point wasn't about the Redskins, and certainly DeSean Jackson has done his part so far in terms of productivity. Similarly, picking up Percy Harvin could turn out to be a fine move for the Jets, though I doubt he will do enough to make a profound difference to a team with many flaws (like the Redskins). But two of the better organizations in the NFL decided to part ways with these guys, despite their undeniable skill sets.

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We have plenty of evidence of a top team making big mistakes and remaining competitive right here in New England. That's why the examples don't really mean anything.

ATippett56 said:

Addition by subtraction. The player was deemed by the organization as a distraction with a high salary cap hit.

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Chip Kelly as quoted in today's MMQB:

“We got a good group of guys, don’t we? Culture wins football games. Culture beats scheme every time.”

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http://mmqb.si.com/2014/10/20/nfl-week-7-peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback/4/

It's about getting 53+ guys on the same page pulling their hardest together. The 2011 Pats went on a SB run AFTER BB cut Albert Haynesworth, essentially admitting a mistake. The talent level wasn't great in several areas, but the team effort was outstanding.

Deus Irae said:

We have plenty of evidence of a top team making big mistakes and remaining competitive right here in New England. That's why the examples don't really mean anything.

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Everyone who makes decisions at a high level makes mistakes. Everyone who sits on the sidelines and critiques those making high level decisions does so with only a cursory knowledge of the facts, and a poor ability to actually assess the quality of the decision.

I like the move, Jets need a spark and they get him for free pretty much.

AndyJohnson said:

Everyone who makes decisions at a high level makes mistakes. Everyone who sits on the sidelines and critiques those making high level decisions does so with only a cursory knowledge of the facts, and a poor ability to actually assess the quality of the decision.

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Couldnt agree more.

And I never begrudge anyone's right to express their opinion or share their thoughts or criticize any move.. thats why we are all here after all, but to do do in insulting, judgemental absolutes is the height of narcissistic subjectivity.

KA- said:

I like the move, Jets need a spark and they get him for free pretty much.

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The Jets need for a nuclear weapon to go off somewhere in their vicinity.

rochrist said:

The Jets need for a nuclear weapon to go off somewhere in their vicinity.

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Forwarded to Homeland Security. Enjoy Gitmo!