The Patriots vs Jets POST Game Thread

Deus Irae said:

One can make any number of arguments about the play calling on Thursday. Any of them that involve more running plays for the sake of running plays would be poor, silly arguments, but they could be made nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Personally, I think that abandoning the run for the most part, was part of the gameplan.

We've seen it plenty of times before when the opposing defense is that stout against the run, and that's not even bringing up the obvious weakness that the Jets have in their secondary which screams "throw the ball."

Brady threw out in SEA 59 times (IIRC), and we were up 23-10 with just around 6:00 minutes remaining, and obviously should've won the game had it not been for Tavon Wilson and some long, late TD passes.

In full disclosure I do sometimes get slightly annoyed at their tendency to throw too much, but this wasn't one of those times.

Deus Irae said:

One can make any number of arguments about the play calling on Thursday. Any of them that involve more running plays for the sake of running plays would be poor, silly arguments, but they could be made nonetheless.

Click to expand...

You are rebutting an argument I did not make. My argument was that it is reasonable to suggest that playcalling that meant better TOP would have been preferable.

Mack Herron said:

You are rebutting an argument I did not make. My argument was that it is reasonable to suggest that playcalling that meant better TOP would have been preferable.

Click to expand...

I wasn't just rebutting your argument. I was also pointing out something pretty obvious, in the context of this game. Your argument was a poor one: don't get me wrong there. It's just that it's only a subset of the "Gotta run to run" argument that has been on this board for a couple of years.

FYI, if you take out Vereen's 17 yard run, the Patriots got 46 yards on 14 carries, which is less than 3.3 yards per attempt. That's not how you keep the clock moving. That's how you end up having to punt more quickly.

If you want to see a more balanced TOP, get the defense to stop the opponent's running game.

Mack Herron said:

My argument was that it is reasonable to suggest that playcalling that meant better TOP would have been preferable.

Click to expand...

I think the TOP factor just got out of hand due to the fact that we couldn't stop their effective running.

That, and of course, the fact that the NEP defense did not perform well in 3rd down situations. That obviously allowed the Jets to continue with some nice long drives.

Had they limited the Jets rushing attack, I think we'd have seen a Patriot offense that held the ball around 25+ minutes, rather than barely 19.

Deus Irae said:

One can make any number of arguments about the play calling on Thursday. Any of them that involve more running plays for the sake of running plays would be poor, silly arguments, but they could be made nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Deus. My point exactly.

In the strange calamitous circumstances BB faced temporarily without Stork, Connoly or Fleming, or the semblance of an offensive line, that could be relied on, BB told Brady protect yourself at all costs. Throw it into the ground, or into the grandstands or rollout, but don't take a hit. Hang the intentional grounding calls.

We will outscore them on 3-or 4 play Long Ball "drives".

BB was a Prophet and the Team profited. BB and his Coaches seem to win about 2-4 games a year that they probably shouldn't. This was one of them.

Meanwhile, we will play pass defense, 4-2-5 & 3-2-6, all the time to prevent any cheap scores by them, and lure them in.

Brady is tied for 3rd in the NFL with 6 plays of 40+ yards...had only 8 all of last year...

shmessy said:

You just proved why they should have run more often last night. They were dropping eight and the Pats were throwing into their coverage. Brady hit on 54% of his passes because they were sitting back knowing McDaniels was abandoning the run. Now plenty have pointed out the 4 combined drops ny Edelman and Gronk, but the two Vereen TDs were spectacular grabs as was the Amendola. it all evened out there.

A balanced attack keeps the D off balance. It work in the Minn/Cinci/Buffalo games. And the lack of which showed in the Mia/Oakland/KC and NYJ games.

Off course someone may now interject some blather about "correlation and causation" but that is merely obfuscation of what can clearly see about the first 7 games of this season.

Click to expand...

Your points are valid, but I just do not agree. Not sure how I proved your point. I would have liked to see the average YPC around 5 or 6, but the Jets do have a very good D line. I disagree that Mcdaniels abandoned the run, The game plan was to pass. Also Brady's 54 percent completion percentage is worrysome against a team is dropping 8. In my opinion that could mean one of two things, One is the Jets are getting pressure with just 3 guys. The second is it tells me there is a lack of a deep threat. Someone said this in the Game thread... dropping 8 is one of the worst things you can do

KontradictioN said:

Sigh. If you think we should have run more, than tell me which one of these assertions and facts is incorrect...

1. The Jets have one of the better front sevens in the league.

2. The Jets have one of the best run defenses in the league.

3. The Jets have one of the worst secondaries in the league.

4. The Patriots have Tom Brady.

5. The Patriots were missing their best RB.

6. The Patriots scored 29 points off of passing.

Because those are all reasons why the gameplan, up until the last series, was fine on offense. Further, your assertion in the quoted post is incorrect.

Click to expand...

This doesn't refute the fact that our best passing plays occurred when we play action.

Only when the Jets wised up and ignored play action (because of lack of running plays) did they finally put pressure on Brady.

No one is saying run as much as pass, but if we don't even attempt to run, that play action that's opened up our passing game won't work.

Case in point, what happened in the 4th quarter.

Chung has been such a pleasant surprise. He's really been the starting caliber SS we needed next to McCourty this year.

Deus Irae said:

Special teams....

Click to expand...

Exactly, he's a core special teamer who plays on all 4 units. I'm consistently surprised by how little people pay attention to special teams. Even after 15 years of Belichick consistently showing how much he pays attention to them.

supafly said:

I think the TOP factor just got out of hand due to the fact that we couldn't stop their effective running.

That, and of course, the fact that the NEP defense did not perform well in 3rd down situations. That obviously allowed the Jets to continue with some nice long drives.

Had they limited the Jets rushing attack, I think we'd have seen a Patriot offense that held the ball around 25+ minutes, rather than barely 19.

Click to expand...

Of course better defense would have helped us keep the ball longer. As would better run/pass balance. TOP is affected by both offense and defense and attention to TOP requires complementary football. The Patriots did not play great complementary football and there is room for improvement on both sides of the ball. It is not all one or the other.

condon84 said:

This doesn't refute the fact that our best passing plays occurred when we play action.

Only when the Jets wised up and ignored play action (because of lack of running plays) did they finally put pressure on Brady.

No one is saying run as much as pass, but if we don't even attempt to run, that play action that's opened up our passing game won't work.

Case in point, what happened in the 4th quarter.

Click to expand...

The game against the JETs was not normal Defense, nor normal Patriot style Offense. It was forced by the injuries to Stork, Connolly and Flemming, on the O-Line and the lack of time to prepare and adapt to the loss of Mayo.

It was desperation and unorthodox. It is not a pattern that can be duplicated, since it requires a qullible opponent, blinded by a desire to beat the Patriots; and too dense to realize how he has been suckered.

Peyton and Rex fit that description to perfection.

I still say this was a Coach's victory.

Mack Herron said:

Of course better defense would have helped us keep the ball longer. As would better run/pass balance. TOP is affected by both offense and defense and attention to TOP requires complementary football. The Patriots did not play great complementary football and there is room for improvement on both sides of the ball. It is not all one or the other.

Click to expand...

The Jets never had to punt in the first half, and they didn't have to punt on their first drive in the second half. Right there, we've got 28 minutes and 5 seconds TOP for the Jets, none of which have to do with the Patriots not running the ball enough.

You're making no sense on this issue. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

fightingirish595 said:

Your points are valid, but I just do not agree. Not sure how I proved your point. I would have liked to see the average YPC around 5 or 6, but the Jets do have a very good D line.

Click to expand...

Why not wish for average yards per carry of 7 or 8 then?

It's hard to imagine a successful game plan relying upon a 5 or 6 YPC average in the absence of Connolly, Stork, and Ridley, against the Jets. That would be foolish.

Deus Irae said:

The Jets never had to punt in the first half, and they didn't have to punt on their first drive in the second half. Right there, we've got 28 minutes and 5 seconds TOP for the Jets, none of which have to do with the Patriots not running the ball enough.

You're making no sense on this issue. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

Click to expand...

Also, the Patriots featured a lot of quick snaps and hurry-up offense. They scored quickly when they scored. That also impacted time of possession.

Further, while the Jets never punted in the first half, they played all but two and a half minutes behind.

Here's the stats I wanted refuted...Pats 27 Jets 25...Pats 5-2...Jets 1-6...refute THAT

Urgent said:

Why not wish for average yards per carry of 7 or 8 then?

It's hard to imagine a successful game plan relying upon a 5 or 6 YPC average in the absence of Connolly, Stork, and Ridley, against the Jets. That would be foolish.

Click to expand...

I dont think its that foolish to average 5 or 6 yards a carry against a team that consistently dropping 8 into coverage

you know what would be wonderful, picking up david nelson now that the jet cut him, and using him vs the jets to rub some salt in the jest's wounds

Mack Herron said:

Of course better defense would have helped us keep the ball longer. As would better run/pass balance. TOP is affected by both offense and defense and attention to TOP requires complementary football. The Patriots did not play great complementary football and there is room for improvement on both sides of the ball. It is not all one or the other.

Click to expand...

I agree with some of your finer points, but I was speaking just about the more general sense. In my opinion, the bottom line was that we just didn't play nearly effectively enough on defense. I don't believe that it had anything to do with offensive gameplanning, which is what I think you are talking about.

Speaking offensively---In the case of the NYJ, I think their obvious weakness in the secondary states to attack through the air. The decision was likely made even easier due to their obvious strength being their front seven and ability to stop the run. In the case of Thursday night's game, the coaching staff very well may have assumed us losing the TOP battle due to some of these factors. Unfortunately, our inability to stop the run AND the combination of allowing too many 3rd down conversions made it much more difficult than it needed to be. Just my opinion of course.

chasa said:

you know what would be wonderful, picking up david nelson now that the jet cut him, and using him vs the jets to rub some salt in the jest's wounds

Click to expand...

It's always fun to use the Jets castoffs against them, but I don't think that is going to apply in the case of David Nelson, and that's a good thing.