The Patriots vs Jets POST Game Thread

sb1 said:

Yes at this point they don't look like home run picks... but there is no way of knowing for sure after only 14 months. Hence, it's a pointless exercise to judge so soon.

IMO, I believe Collins will develop. Have not given up on Dobson. On the fence about Ryan. We'll see....

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I have not given up on Dobson either, but the reality is he is not helping the 2014 Patriots to this point.

Collins is not a NFL LB. He should not be on the field for anything other than special teams. People have compared his development to Hightower's, but I don't see it. I always had a positive feeling about Hightower. He loved contact, and when he hit ball carriers, they went backwards or down. I thought he was a guy that just needed to find his position. At the beginning of this season he had found his position, and he was playing as well as anybody on our D. I hope he gets healthy enough to get back to that. Collins can't play...that is not going to change. I wish I could call him a JAG, but avg would be exaggerating his ability.

iapatsfan said:

Collins is not a NFL LB. He should not be on the field for anything other than special teams. People have compared his development to Hightower's, but I don't see it. I always had a positive feeling about Hightower. He loved contact, and when he hit ball carriers, they went backwards or down. I thought he was a guy that just needed to find his position. At the beginning of this season he had found his position, and he was playing as well as anybody on our D. I hope he gets healthy enough to get back to that. Collins can't play...that is not going to change. I wish I could call him a JAG, but avg would be exaggerating his ability.

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@Gil_Brandt
Jamie Collins of @Patriots is NFL's best LB in coverage, according to STATS, w/ lowest burn percentage (43.6)


Your trolling is terrible

JMC00 said:

@Gil_Brandt
Jamie Collins of @Patriots is NFL's best LB in coverage, according to STATS, w/ lowest burn percentage (43.6)


Your trolling is terrible

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Collins hasn't been particularly good in coverage. STATS needs to re-visit its metric.

Also, Collins has been absolutely terrible against the run, and that's being kind.

Iapatsfan has been trolling a lot, but he's not completely wrong on Collins. Collins should be nothing more than a situational LB, at most, right now.

Didn't appear to be any significant injuries, and the team has 10 days of recovery.
Hopefully Hightower will be closer to 100% and Connolly and Stork will be back for that.

KontradictioN said:

Not when it gets stuffed on straight runs.

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You mean our 4.2 average per rush?

I think Collins needs more time to learn how hard nosed you need to be in order to play LB in the NFL. Heck, it took Tedy Bruschi 3 seasons to figure it out. For the time being though, I think Hightower should be in the middle and Collins at weak side.

kudzif said:

Honestly, watch the NFL; not every pass is going to be between the numbers. If you are complaining about Brady being inaccurate today against a good jets D you are never going to be happy.

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I also believe DA started running the wrong way and realized in time to adjust and make one heck of a catch. That is the kind of catch Wes needed to make in SB46 for the first down and the win.

sb1 said:

Yes at this point they don't look like home run picks... but there is no way of knowing for sure after only 14 months. Hence, it's a pointless exercise to judge so soon.

IMO, I believe Collins will develop. Have not given up on Dobson. On the fence about Ryan. We'll see....

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I don't think that it is pointless to judge a draft before their first camp, before their first game, before their 2nd season or before their 3rd season.

Obviously, we don't have certainty. We are simply judging on the information we have.
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Was it unreasonable for folks to judge that HARMON was a WTF pick? Really?
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Obviously, these things get discussed a lot during the bye, but these players have had 2 full off seasons and 1 1/2 seasons of play. We can hope for more. Judgements are OFTEN made after their third offseason, not all that far away.

Some drafts are great, some not so much. Injuries have hurt. WTF picks hurt. But, as of now, I think that this was a very poor draft, both terms of expected quality and in terms of delivered production.

To put the DB picks in perspective, Chung is starting at safety, Tavon Wilson is the go-to on sub downs, and Ebner is our dime back. Kudos to the staff for making this all work. How many reps do we expect Ryan and Harmon to get after the bye. If they left the team, would anyone notice?

Dobson has been hampered by injuries. Dobson still could develop as a contributor. Collins fits a need as a sub package linebacker. Buchanan may contribute as a sub package DE and special teamer.

So, we have 5 potential contributors, one of whom has been thrust into a starting job.

Deus Irae said:

Collins hasn't been particularly good in coverage. STATS needs to re-visit its metric.

Also, Collins has been absolutely terrible against the run, and that's being kind.

Iapatsfan has been trolling a lot, but he's not completely wrong on Collins. Collins should be nothing more than a situational LB, at most, right now.

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Says the guy who deemed him a bust the minute Kevin Faulk announced his name.

condon84 said:

You mean our 4.2 average per rush?

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Go back and revisit the game stats. A lot of our successful runs were out of the shotgun or when the Jets were selling out against the pass, meaning the Pats used the pass to set up the run.

JMC00 said:

Says the guy who deemed him a bust the minute Kevin Faulk announced his name.

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Never happened, Mr. White Knight.

Deus Irae said:

Collins hasn't been particularly good in coverage. STATS needs to re-visit its metric.

Also, Collins has been absolutely terrible against the run, and that's being kind.

Iapatsfan has been trolling a lot, but he's not completely wrong on Collins. Collins should be nothing more than a situational LB, at most, right now.

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I think Collins has some strong capabilities and some notable weaknesses. Just as Hightower does, and just as Spikes did. Mayo is a solid tackler and is incredibly prepared and smart - constantly anticipating the play and where to place teammates - but has been a very limited pass rusher. None of them are anywhere near as versatile as Vrabel and Bruschi.

Collins is pretty good in space. He has some burst off the edge, but lacks power. He's constantly off his feet or washed out in the middle.
Hightower has some power off the edge, and is a solid tackler. He struggles in coverage.

If the team can find a decent MLB - maybe if Skinner can develop in the role - then Collins can play in a role that minimizes his weaknesses.

KontradictioN said:

Go back and revisit the game stats. A lot of our successful runs were out of the shotgun or when the Jets were selling out against the pass, meaning the Pats used the pass to set up the run.

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You could also say most of our best passing plays came off running formations and play action.

condon84 said:

You could also say most of our best passing plays came off running formations and play action.

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Sigh. If you think we should have run more, than tell me which one of these assertions and facts is incorrect...

1. The Jets have one of the better front sevens in the league.

2. The Jets have one of the best run defenses in the league.

3. The Jets have one of the worst secondaries in the league.

4. The Patriots have Tom Brady.

5. The Patriots were missing their best RB.

6. The Patriots scored 29 points off of passing.

Because those are all reasons why the gameplan, up until the last series, was fine on offense. Further, your assertion in the quoted post is incorrect.

Brady_to_Moss said:

Just wait until local talk radio and even the media in the NFL how they will spin this W as more of a L type game...

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what do you mean wait? They were doing that in the postgame radio shows.

Deus Irae said:

Collins hasn't been particularly good in coverage. STATS needs to re-visit its metric.

Also, Collins has been absolutely terrible against the run, and that's being kind.

Iapatsfan has been trolling a lot, but he's not completely wrong on Collins. Collins should be nothing more than a situational LB, at most, right now.

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Sorry. When you say STATS needs to revisit it's metrics I call BS. You're agenda in finding fault with Belichick's drafting is too obvious.

KontradictioN said:

Sigh. If you think we should have run more, than tell me which one of these assertions and facts is incorrect...

1. The Jets have one of the better front sevens in the league.

2. The Jets have one of the best run defenses in the league.

3. The Jets have one of the worst secondaries in the league.

4. The Patriots have Tom Brady.

5. The Patriots were missing their best RB.

6. The Patriots scored 29 points off of passing.

Because those are all reasons why the gameplan, up until the last series, was fine on offense. Further, your assertion in the quoted post is incorrect.

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7. The best offense in the league scored "only" 24 points against the Jets just last week.

7a. The Patriots scored only 27 points while having the ball 2/3rds of the time that the Broncos did.

http://www.patriots.com/media-cente...9yard_TD/5bbcab20-7565-49f7-a5a6-ab20f9f44f08

I know they only rushed 3, but notice how EVERY Jets rusher ended up with his ass on the ground. Brady could have stood there half a minute.

Good job, Shorthanded OL!

fightingirish595 said:

I would like to see that number be a little higher against a team that is dropping 8. Think about it, with the "weapons" we have, it tells that tells me the jets have no secondary, which everyone already knew, it also tells me rex knows he has no secondary.

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You just proved why they should have run more often last night. They were dropping eight and the Pats were throwing into their coverage. Brady hit on 54% of his passes because they were sitting back knowing McDaniels was abandoning the run. Now plenty have pointed out the 4 combined drops ny Edelman and Gronk, but the two Vereen TDs were spectacular grabs as was the Amendola. it all evened out there.

A balanced attack keeps the D off balance. It work in the Minn/Cinci/Buffalo games. And the lack of which showed in the Mia/Oakland/KC and NYJ games.

Off course someone may now interject some blather about "correlation and causation" but that is merely obfuscation of what can clearly see about the first 7 games of this season.

Was surprised by the rotation at corner. I completely understand the idea of "easing" Browner back in. But, when rotating out, why didn't they slide Dennard to the outside, with Arrington manning the slot in nickel? I'm amazed Ryan got more PT than Arrington... especially in this game, considering Revis/Dennard/Arrington have proven to be formidable in defending the run.