Fun read: Michael Hurley destroys Spygate article in NY Post

Deus Irae said:

I'm not playing any game. You're clowning yourself. While that's amusing, it's also distracting me from some work. So, please, either learn the topic or go be wrong posting about this with someone else.

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Deus Irae said:

See, here's the problem. I didn't ignore context. You, on the other hand, have ignored pretty much everything. Now, either learn the issue, or stop bugging me about it.

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I'm not responsible for your late-night work ethic. You can simply stop responding whenever you'd like.

Salva135 said:

The only thing that upsets me about Spygate at this point is that Belichick tried so little to defend his integrity. We think it's great that he has such a disdain for the media and doesn't care what anyone thinks about him, but he showed poor judgement in his handling of the matter. This story affects his integrity around the football world, and worse, subjects us fans to a lifetime of this nonsense. This story will never go away. Twenty-five, fifty years from now, people who dislike the Patriots are going to bring this up. Winning in '07 or '11 wouldn't have changed it, either. And it's Belichick's fault. A supposed minor infraction has destroyed your reputation around half of the football world. Congrats.

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The 8000 pound elephant in the room is the blind hatred that New Englanders suffer at the hands of overt bigots from the rest of this country. Long before any "spygate" I was getting bottles and rocks thrown at me for just getting gas in Indiana with RI plates in 1970.Stopped for speeding in Georgia while being passed by semis and cars with Georgia plates and issued a "pay on demand" $100 ticket. Refusal of service at restaurants in Nebraska, Iowa and Oklahoma because I was a "dirty northerner". I can speak with a southern drawl on demand...guess why? Lived in Destin and Alabama in the 70's, you learn to "yee haw"fast.

Shockt327 said:

I'm not responsible for your late-night work ethic. You can simply stop responding whenever you'd like.

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And you can stop clowning yourself with the "context" argument and all the other idiotic posts you've made. You're *****ing about context when this was your post:

Shockt327 said:

Calm down. I'm citing Article IX, Section 9.1(c)(14) as a response to the common fan-assumption that there is no rule against spying and it's only about camera location. Even if you think Belichick could've argued his way around it, it's still a rule about spying. Even if you think Belichick is 100% right....it's still a rule about spying. My criticism is against people who frequently argue that Spygate was about camera placement and not spying. It's an argument that just isn't true.

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You went to the "spying" well three times in the same post. Pretending that were making a casual use of the word and that context sets you free is just a ludicrous claim on your part.

Now, we're done here.

Deus Irae said:

And you can stop clowning yourself with the "context" argument and all the other idiotic posts you've made. You're *****ing about context when this was your post:



You went to the "spying" well three times in the same post. Pretending that were making a casual use of the word and that context sets you free is just a ludicrous claim on your part.

Now, we're done here.

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Yeah, here's my first post:

Shockt327 said:

People keep citing this fan-theory, but it's really just not true....

The Patriots were busted for videotaping signals. Not camera placement. Videotaping signals.

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Here, is your very first response:

Deus Irae said:

You're wrong. Filming signals was not, and still is not, illegal.

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Not to mention all my other posts. It's pretty clear we've been talking about spying via camera. As would be the case in just about any conversation regarding Spygate. Really, you are grasping at straws in this attempt to build a straw-man...

What's next? Are you going to argue that the name "Spygate" makes no sense because it doesn't specify that's it's spying via camera?

BlueThunder said:

Why are we rehashing this tired old subject ?

Haters will hate...Patriots will keep on winning.....

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Agreed.

I wish we could just get past one lousy week without rehashing something from 7+ years ago.

Shockt327 said:

Yeah, here's my first post:



Here, is your very first response:



Not to mention all my other posts. It's pretty clear we've been talking about spying via camera. As would be the case in just about any conversation regarding Spygate. Really, you are grasping at straws in this attempt to build a straw-man...

What's next? Are you going to argue that the name "Spygate" makes no sense because it doesn't specify that's it's spying via camera?

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And now we're back to you not understanding what context means. Get back to me when you posted "videdotaping signals" instead of "spying" 3 times, in the thread where you deliberately chose the word "spying" 3 times. Until then, don't bother me or I'll just put you on ignore and this will end permanently.

Because....... context.

Joker said:

The 8000 pound elephant in the room is the blind hatred that New Englanders suffer at the hands of overt bigots from the rest of this country. Long before any "spygate" I was getting bottles and rocks thrown at me for just getting gas in Indiana with RI plates in 1970.Stopped for speeding in Georgia while being passed by semis and cars with Georgia plates and issued a "pay on demand" $100 ticket. Refusal of service at restaurants in Nebraska, Iowa and Oklahoma because I was a "dirty northerner". I can speak with a southern drawl on demand...guess why? Lived in Destin and Alabama in the 70's, you learn to "yee haw"fast.

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I hear ya. Been there, done that, and got several "issues" with some of the locals. One of my own sisters damned near disowned me when she saw me wearing a Patriots ball cap. See, she was a big Rams fan and after the 1st Superbowl, well, you understand I suppose.

I also learned a proper accent for Southern travels, since I spent a few years at various military bases there. Came in handy more than a few times. Got to taking the train and bus rather than my own vehicle. Easier to blend in like that too.

Good times. Good times.......

Shockt327 said:

1) That's a moot point because you are now referring to stealing signals without a camera. Stealing signals with a camera is absolutely illegal.

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You're wrong but you just won't admit it. Check out the Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

Read the quote about the memo,

In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

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The rule change in 2006 was ALL about location. It did NOT prohibit videotaping at all. It is still permitted today... as long as the area where the taping is occurring is not accessible to club staff members during the game.

Basically, the NFL wanted to make sure that no one could tape signals, go back to the locker room and decode them for use in the second half. That is what the 2006 memo was addressing. Belichick violated that rule by filming from the sideline.

If the Patriots had filmed the defensive signals from the authorized taping room, the word "spygate" would not exist. There was nothing illegal about it.

Look, I'm a huge homer like any other fan on this board, but.........

......the Patriots were braeking the rules, got caught, and subsequent video tape evidence was destroyed. Thank goodness, b/c I bet those video tapes had some pretty damaging stuff that would have looked REAL bad for the Pats and NFL if it got to the public.

Does anyone really think the NFL didn't already see the Ray Rice video? No, they probably destroyed that too. Unforunately, others had copies of it and you saw how damaging that was for the NFL brand when it was released.

The bottom line, the Patriots were caught red handed and paid the price. As far as I'm concerned the story is over.

brdmaverick said:

Look, I'm a huge homer like any other fan on this board, but.........

......the Patriots were braeking the rules, got caught, and subsequent video tape evidence was destroyed. Thank goodness, b/c I bet those video tapes had some pretty damaging stuff that would have looked REAL bad for the Pats and NFL if it got to the public.

Does anyone really think the NFL didn't already see the Ray Rice video? No, they probably destroyed that too. Unforunately, others had copies of it and you saw how damaging that was for the NFL brand when it was released.

The bottom line, the Patriots were caught red handed and paid the price. As far as I'm concerned the story is over.

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The public DID get to see one of the tapes. It was nothing.

Hubbuch's piece is a classic "look at me! look at me!" article to which we've grown accustomed...other notables, Michael Silver's "brady's growing disconnect" piece on brady contract talks, anything Pats related from Pete Prisco from 01-05, the fat slob John Popper look alike's Spygate piece...the list goes on...my disdain for all things media knows no bounds!

I still don't get how Bryan O'Leary is still kicking around after writing an "earth shattering" book that "broke the lid open" on the Spygate controversy by basically collecting a bunch of articles from ESPN.com, Sports Illustrated, etc. and putting them together to rehash everything we know. And it is even funnier that the media act like he discovered anything. If you ever read his Twitter account, I am convinced he is either RayRay or Hitman Harris on Jets Insider.

Rob0729 said:

I still don't get how Bryan O'Leary is still kicking around after writing an "earth shattering" book that "broke the lid open" on the Spygate controversy by basically collecting a bunch of articles from ESPN.com, Sports Illustrated, etc. and putting them together to rehash everything we know. And it is even funnier that the media act like he discovered anything. If you ever read his Twitter account, I am convinced he is either RayRay or Hitman Harris on Jets Insider.

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Rob, the fact that you can identify 2 knobs from JI off the top of your head is, frankly, concerning...

brdmaverick said:

Look, I'm a huge homer like any other fan on this board, but.........

......the Patriots were braeking the rules, got caught, and subsequent video tape evidence was destroyed. Thank goodness, b/c I bet those video tapes had some pretty damaging stuff that would have looked REAL bad for the Pats and NFL if it got to the public.

Does anyone really think the NFL didn't already see the Ray Rice video? No, they probably destroyed that too. Unforunately, others had copies of it and you saw how damaging that was for the NFL brand when it was released.

The bottom line, the Patriots were caught red handed and paid the price. As far as I'm concerned the story is over.

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It does look bad that those tapes were destroyed, but in my book the only thing that would ruin this team's championship success would be that SB walkthrough tape. In the unlikely event that existed, thankfully that never saw the light of day.

Anything less than that is nothing we don't already know.

Rob0729 said:

I still don't get how Bryan O'Leary is still kicking around after writing an "earth shattering" book that "broke the lid open" on the Spygate controversy by basically collecting a bunch of articles from ESPN.com, Sports Illustrated, etc. and putting them together to rehash everything we know. And it is even funnier that the media act like he discovered anything. If you ever read his Twitter account, I am convinced he is either RayRay or Hitman Harris on Jets Insider.

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That guy contradicts himself on his basic points constantly. He maintains that the media ignored or buried the story, but then says he basically did a google search to find all his content. He claims that the people covering the NFL are too heavily invested in the league to say what they really think, but then uses articles and quotes from these same people to support his argument.

Taking it a step further, he claims that, because Belichick broke an NFL rule, Belichick is fundamentally dishonest and must be breaking more rules in ways we don't know about. This opinion comes from a person who lost his career as an investment adviser because he was misleading his customers. He portrays himself as completely honest, though.

Jackson 2 said:

Rob, the fact that you can identify 2 knobs from JI off the top of your head is, frankly, concerning...

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In fairness to me, those two are the kings of the Jets fans rubes. Their posts are so ridiculously idiotic that they are all must reads. The most unintentionally funny posts you could ever read. I suggest you try to read RayRay's manifesto thread from last week saying how the Jets are a good team despite their record.

http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/t...still-say-things-aren-t-as-bad-as-they-appear

Rob0729 said:

In fairness to me, those two are the kings of the Jets fans rubes. Their posts are so ridiculously idiotic that they are all must reads. The most unintentionally funny posts you could ever read. I suggest you try to read RayRay's manifesto thread from last week saying how the Jets are a good team despite their record.

http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/t...still-say-things-aren-t-as-bad-as-they-appear

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Thanks and I promise I will - well after dinner!

Shockt327 said:

Yeah, I'm really going to have to take a long look in the mirror over my criticism of the theory that it was really just about the placement of the camera, and not spying with it...

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You may have been attempting to be sarcastic but you actually nailed it

It WAS solely about the placement of the cameras following the 2006 memo

There WAS NO spying

The term "spygate" was a misnomer perpetuated by Goodell, who, rather than come clean that his own rules (pre- and post 2006) allowed for filming, chose to allow the ignorant football massess believe that in football, unlike baseball, signals are not filmed and later analyzed

Goodell was gambling on the ignorance and blindness of the NFL fanbase (who he hoped would not notice that coordinators - even to this day - routinely cover their mouths when calling in plays.

Goodell was right in his assumption of the ignorance of most fans. And most fans mindlessly see coordinators covering their mouths yet lack the intellectual capacity to ask themselves "why"

So yes - despite what may have been a sarcastic comment on your part, you unwittingly got it right! There was no spying. There was filming of signals. Perfectly legal from the sidelines until 2006 when Goodell issued a memo stating that it was not but only if it were to be used for that gameday

Goodell left a gaping loophole, Belichick took advantage of it and made Goodell look like an idiot - thus Goodell takes away a draft pick and issues a monetary fine. And Belichick and Kraft agreed to play along - though I think they wish they hadn't

Deus Irae said:

The public DID get to see one of the tapes. It was nothing.

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Well, clearly not 'NOTHING', it was evidence that the Pats were illegally video taping.

Of course we all want to believe that the other tapes would be just more of the same, but what if they did record the Ram's red zone practices? Sure, the Rams didn't have many red zone opportunities in the game, but it would still LOOK pretty bad and be pretty blatant cheating.


I agree with everyone's overall sentiment that SpyGate should be done (it's a topic of conversation for the past). The pats were guilty and paid the price, let's move on.

brdmaverick said:

...Of course we all want to believe that the other tapes would be just more of the same, but what if they did record the Ram's red zone practices? Sure, the Rams didn't have many red zone opportunities in the game, but it would still LOOK pretty bad and be pretty blatant cheating.


I agree with everyone's overall sentiment that SpyGate should be done (it's a topic of conversation for the past). The pats were guilty and paid the price, let's move on.

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The Rams practice tape claim was a separate incident, and would not have been on the tapes Goodell got, had it existed. They didn't exist, though, so it's even more of a moot point.