The disgusting attacks on Gronk

scott99 said:

Then they've been trained incorrectly by terrible coaches. Wrap up the legs and a ball carrier can't run, period, I don't care if you're 1000 pounds, legs wrapped up you go down. Someone mentioned they faced running backs 70-80 pounds heavier, I did too, had a buddy who was 250lbs and people used to bounce off of him when they tackled him incorrectly, when I tackled him, and I was 170, he went down. Why, because I was taught the correct form tackle when I was 7, and practiced it over and over for years. Can't say I got myself in position to make every tackle, but once I wrapped my arms around your legs, you went down.

Same goes for blocking, my Dad still has a picture of me making a textbook block on a kid from when I was 9 (I'm 52). Why was I able to do it, I was taught the proper technique, over and over in practice for years. You'd think these guys would know how to preform a proper tackle by now.

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If you don't mind me asking, what state did you play in?

Ridley tore his ACL and MCL because his foot was planted when the defender went low on him. Just sucks! I worry about Gronk getting injured too with defenders going low on him knowing they'll have a hard time stopping him 1 on 1 if they try to make a good form tackle.

Galeb said:

Good post. I bet you had strong hands. Neck and hands are to muscle groups that a lot of professional athletes neglect. It takes good hand strength to consistently wrap up the legs.

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Don't tell that to Race car drivers.

KontradictioN said:

If you don't mind me asking, what state did you play in?

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NY in the 1970's.

Galeb said:

Good post. I bet you had strong hands. Neck and hands are to muscle groups that a lot of professional athletes neglect. It takes good hand strength to consistently wrap up the legs.

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I was far from a great athlete, in fact, you wouldn't believe it today if you saw me (30 lbs over weight), but as a kid in Pop Warner, they had to put weights in my pockets just so I could make the team in my age group. So I was thin, and lighter than most teammates/opponents, I wasn't the shortest, just pretty thin. But I tell you, hitting those tackling dummies, having scrimmages for practice 3-4 times a week, hitting those blocking sleds hundreds of times, you never forget the proper technique if shown correctly.

Funny story, when I was 9, my Dad brought his co-worker home to hang out. We were in our living room, and my Dad's friend, probably about 160 lbs, said to me, you think you can tackle me ? I said, I think so. So he said, get down in your stance, got in a 3 point stance, so did he, he came running at me, and I tackled him, knocked him to the ground. Well, my dad literally fell off of the couch laughing, his friend was pissed, and my dad told that story at work to anyone who would listen. My Dad STILL tell that story 43 years later, lol.

scott99 said:

NY in the 1970's.

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In south Florida, farmers hire high school football players and track stars for pennies on the dollar to chase rabbits through the field and break their necks. High school football players do this to increase agility, quickness, and speed. In short, and I don't mean to sound like a douche, I played athletes in the early 2000's that are bigger, stronger, and faster than who you played. Since the last couple of decades, Florida, Texas, and California have put out more professional football players than any other state. I've played high schools like Miami-Chaminade, Aquinas, Pahokee (the school the Boldins came out of), Northwestern (check who they've put out), and every Belle Glade school. When these guys are as big as they are, you have to go low. When they're as fast as they are, you don't have time to worry about whether or not you should make a form tackle. The size, strength, and speed just doesn't compare.

KontradictioN said:

In south Florida, farmers hire high school football players and track stars for pennies on the dollar to chase rabbits through the field and break their necks. High school football players do this to increase agility, quickness, and speed. In short, and I don't mean to sound like a douche, I played athletes in the early 2000's that are bigger, stronger, and faster than who you played. Since the last couple of decades, Florida, Texas, and California have put out more professional football players than any other state. I've played high schools like Miami-Chaminade, Aquinas, Pahokee (the school the Boldins came out of), Northwestern (check who they've put out), and every Belle Glade school. When these guys are as big as they are, you have to go low. When they're as fast as they are, you don't have time to worry about whether or not you should make a form tackle. The size, strength, and speed just doesn't compare.

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It wonder if he was referring college ball.

KontradictioN said:

In south Florida, farmers hire high school football players and track stars for pennies on the dollar to chase rabbits through the field and break their necks. High school football players do this to increase agility, quickness, and speed. In short, and I don't mean to sound like a douche, I played athletes in the early 2000's that are bigger, stronger, and faster than who you played. Since the last couple of decades, Florida, Texas, and California have put out more professional football players than any other state. I've played high schools like Miami-Chaminade, Aquinas, Pahokee (the school the Boldins came out of), Northwestern (check who they've put out), and every Belle Glade school. When these guys are as big as they are, you have to go low. When they're as fast as they are, you don't have time to worry about whether or not you should make a form tackle. The size, strength, and speed just doesn't compare.

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I agree somewhat, but don't forget, it's all relative, the better leagues who have the better, faster, stronger, more talented athletes, also should have the same caliber athletes trying to tackle them, therefore it shouldn't really make a difference. Proper technique should be at an even higher level caliber in the better leagues.

scott99 said:

I agree somewhat, but don't forget, it's all relative, the better leagues who have the better, faster, stronger, more talented athletes, also should have the same caliber athletes trying to tackle them, therefore it shouldn't really make a difference. Proper technique should be at an even higher level caliber in the better leagues.

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That doesn't make the decision to either deliver the hit you know will bring the bigger guy down or wrap him up any less of a split second decision. Believe me, wrapping up is great. It would be great if every tackle could happen like that, but it can't. That's just the nature of the game. If you're a defender, particularly a DB looking to bring a bigger RB or TE down, you go low and you deliver any kind of hit that you know will stop the other player from advancing the ball any further. If you take a second to think about whether or not you should be wrapping up, the other guy is running right by you like the wind. If you try to wrap the other guy up with anything but perfect form, it becomes an arm tackle which the best athletes have no trouble breaking.

And I still haven't seen anybody killing McCourty yet.

Fortunately Burfict was inactive when we played the Bengals.

http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-will-investigate-vontaze-burficts-ankle-twi-1646156650

KontradictioN said:

As I said before, McCourty went low on Chandler this past Sunday along the sideline but we don't see anybody killing him in this thread. It happens.

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They should have.

KontradictioN said:

That doesn't make the decision to either deliver the hit you know will bring the bigger guy down or wrap him up any less of a split second decision. Believe me, wrapping up is great. It would be great if every tackle could happen like that, but it can't. That's just the nature of the game. If you're a defender, particularly a DB looking to bring a bigger RB or TE down, you go low and you deliver any kind of hit that you know will stop the other player from advancing the ball any further. If you take a second to think about whether or not you should be wrapping up, the other guy is running right by you like the wind. If you try to wrap the other guy up with anything but perfect form, it becomes an arm tackle which the best athletes have no trouble breaking.

And I still haven't seen anybody killing McCourty yet.

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I respect your football knowledge and your playing background, you know your stuff. But we will just have to agree to disagree on this tackling issue. But great discussion ! It's what makes this Messageboard great and has me coming back again and again. I love this board !

Form tackling is what they teach in high school. In the pros, they teach multiple methods to tackle, and in fact it is quite rare to really be able to form tackle properly as players are usually far too shifty and the action takes place at a speed that is often prohibitive for that type of technique.

Going low on a runner the size of Gronk is taught by every coaching staff in the league. They teach it so that you aim above the knees but just below the waist. Not because it prevents injury, but b/c going lower creates the risk of being vaulted over.

Unfortunately, the speed again is prohibitive and sometimes what was a good lead tackle into the legs turns into a wiffed tackle into the knee area. It's just part of the risk of the NFL.

Did people do this to Jim Brown when he was way bigger than everybody back in the day? Or is the reason he has his numbers because people were sticking to trying to tackle him legit and bouncing off him like they would Gronk?

In every Jim Brown highlight reel I've ever seen, he's dominating because people are trying to tackle him, not blow his knees out.

ausbacker said:

They should have.

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No, they shouldn't have. McCourty did what he had to do and the ball wasn't advanced any further.

KontradictioN said:

No, they shouldn't have. McCourty did what he had to do and the ball wasn't advanced any further.

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No, McCourty went low and it was a dirty play.

One day you Americans are going to realize that you had tackling in football right 50 years ago.

ausbacker said:

No, McCourty went low and it was a dirty play.

One day you Americans are going to realize that you had tackling in football right 50 years ago.

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When the game was played at half the speed and by people with half the muscle mass. There are QB's in the NFL that would have been large Defensive Ends 50 years ago.

betterthanthealternative said:

When the game was played at half the speed and by people with half the muscle mass. There are QB's in the NFL that would have been large Defensive Ends 50 years ago.

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I'm happy to concede that players are bigger, faster, stronger etc. now but the same goes for defensive players in the NFL.

Players in the Australian Football League (Aussie Rules - our native game), Rugby League and Rugby Union are also bigger, stronger and faster than ever before. No excuses are made for any of those three when it comes to poor tackling technique. All three codes legislated the preferred type of technique into their by-laws and generally have rules toward tripping players worked in.

I love everything about the NFL but by and large, tackling technique needs to improve. From my observation, it's more hitting than tackling. Further to that, I hate any type of block that goes low on any lineman if that helps.

ausbacker said:

it's more hitting than tackling

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Just summed up most players tackling. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a great textbook tackle multiple times in a game. The tackle Revis had on Watkins was great to see from a defensive back. I see defensive players launching themselves at players knees and have no idea if it is with the intent to injury or bring the player down. I can't remember a Seahawks player launching themselves at a defender or struggling to bring a bigger player down.

Froob said:

How does Graham manage to rarely get hurt? He's a similar sized body.

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He gets hurt a fair amount in his own right. In fact, he's hurt now.

As far as how he's managed to avoid getting his knee blown out, that's just luck. Guys go low on him too, and if/when they hit his knee while it's planted, that'll be a season-ender. It's happened to Gronk once, and hasn't happened to Graham yet, but they're at a similar risk for it.