The disgusting attacks on Gronk

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

jays52 said:
That's totally fair, man. However, I think that given the speed of the game at the NFL level and the pursuit angles associated with spread offenses breaking down isn't an option. Other than screens or hitches its very, very rare that we see a player break down in the NFL anymore. I agree that going for a secure wrap is the most likely way to get a clean tackle on the ball carrier but only when it's an option.

I think most of the cases you are referring to are when you have an angle where you are in pursuit of the ball carrier, not in front of them. I was referring to examples (like all of the ones previously cited) where the tackler is in front of the ball carrier. It is the launches from the front that are typically typically the ACL killers. Tackling from behind is quite a bit different and is less likely to blow out a knee.

Kontradiction · Oct 14, 2014

letekro said:
The flaw in your reasoning is that your are equating going low with intending to injure. Since people started playing football, smaller players have been going low on bigger players. I never heard any complaints about this. All the sudden, our key guy gets hurt on a low hit, and now it is a dirty tactic.

As I said before, McCourty went low on Chandler this past Sunday along the sideline but we don't see anybody killing him in this thread. It happens.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

letekro said:
The flaw in your reasoning is that your are equating going low with intending to injure. Since people started playing football, smaller players have been going low on bigger players. I never heard any complaints about this. All the sudden, our key guy gets hurt on a low hit, and now it is a dirty tactic.

Tackling low and launching your shoulder at a persons knee are two very different things.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

FirstAndGoal said:
Form tackling can only take you so far. You don't want to take Gronk on when you're giving 100 pounds. lol.

Only if you're scared or don't have the required leverage to play the game properly. I Played against a running back every year that had at least 90 lbs on me. Although I got my bell wrung pretty good by him a few times, he never ran me over.

For the record, I only played in high school.

FirstAndGoal · Oct 14, 2014

Galeb said:
Only if you're scared or don't have the required leverage to play the game properly. I Played against a running back every year that had at least 90 lbs on me. Although I got my bell wrung pretty good by him a few times, he never ran me over.

For the record, I only played in high school.

Exactly, you played high school. You've never seen speed and strength at that level. Scared has nothing to do with it. Knowing what you can and can't do has more to do with it than some macho ********.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

FirstAndGoal said:
Exactly, you played high school. You've never seen speed and strength at that level. Scared has nothing to do with it. Knowing what you can and can't do has more to do with it than some macho ********.

Gravity momentum and leverage do not change.

FirstAndGoal · Oct 14, 2014

Galeb said:
Gravity momentum and leverage do not change.

Neither does ignorance.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

FirstAndGoal said:
Neither does ignorance.

Actually, ignorance can be overcome. Don't lose hope.

FirstAndGoal · Oct 14, 2014

Galeb said:
Actually, ignorance can be overcome. Don't lose hope.

I find high school heroes rarely change so in your case, doubtful

Spiral · Oct 14, 2014

OK--here's the proposed rule:

No player may use his helmet or shoulder pads to hit another player at or below the knee.

Any player, any situation. Yes it would change the game, but it turns my stomach to see anyone's knee get destroyed.

TruthSeeker · Oct 14, 2014

KontradictioN said:
I'm beginning to wonder how many people in here have ever played football competitively in their lives. Smaller DB's and LB's have been trained to go low on bigger TE's since the advent of the game. This is not going to change.

Then they've been trained incorrectly by terrible coaches. Wrap up the legs and a ball carrier can't run, period, I don't care if you're 1000 pounds, legs wrapped up you go down. Someone mentioned they faced running backs 70-80 pounds heavier, I did too, had a buddy who was 250lbs and people used to bounce off of him when they tackled him incorrectly, when I tackled him, and I was 170, he went down. Why, because I was taught the correct form tackle when I was 7, and practiced it over and over for years. Can't say I got myself in position to make every tackle, but once I wrapped my arms around your legs, you went down.

Same goes for blocking, my Dad still has a picture of me making a textbook block on a kid from when I was 9 (I'm 52). Why was I able to do it, I was taught the proper technique, over and over in practice for years. You'd think these guys would know how to preform a proper tackle by now.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

FirstAndGoal said:
I find high school heroes rarely change so in your case, doubtful

The funny thing is, I used myself as an example because I wasn't a great athlete. I was simply a normal guy who used proper technique to consistently tackle much larger opponents. Don't get so bent out of shape about the phrase "playing with fear". Anyone can be taught to manage and channel their fear, it is not a macho thing.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

scott99 said:
Then they've been trained incorrectly by terrible coaches. Wrap up the legs and a ball carrier can't run, period, I don't care if you're 1000 pounds, legs wrapped up you go down. Someone mentioned they faced running backs 70-80 pounds heavier, I did too, had a buddy who was 250lbs and people used to bounce off of him when they tackled him incorrectly, when I tackled him, and I was 170, he went down. Why, because I was taught the correct form tackle when I was 7, and practiced it over and over for years. Can't say I got myself in position to make every tackle, but once I wrapped my arms around your legs, you went down.

Same goes for blocking, my Dad still has a picture of me making a textbook block on a kid from when I was 9 (I'm 52). Why was I able to do it, I was taught the proper technique, over and over in practice for years. You'd think these guys would know how to preform a proper tackle by now.

Good post. I bet you had strong hands. Neck and hands are to muscle groups that a lot of professional athletes neglect. It takes good hand strength to consistently wrap up the legs.

FirstAndGoal · Oct 14, 2014

Galeb said:
The funny thing is, I used myself as an example because I wasn't a great athlete. I was simply a normal guy who used proper technique to consistently tackle much larger opponents. Don't get so bent out of shape about the phrase "playing with fear". Anyone can be taught to manage and channel their fear, it is not a macho thing.

Physics says the force is the winner in any collision. You're either absorbing or giving the force... simple physics. I don't care how good your form is, if there's enough force, you're not going to win.

It's not fear either, its an understanding of limits. You wouldn't try and stop a car with "good form" and you wouldn't want to take some of these guys on without considering less dangerous options either. If you can take a guy down legally, you live to fight another day. It's being smart.

F = m(a)... that's all it is.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

FirstAndGoal said:
Physics says the force is the winner in any collision. You're either absorbing or giving the force... simple physics. I don't care how good your form is, if there's enough force, you're not going to win.

It's not fear either, its an understanding of limits. You wouldn't try and stop a car with "good form" and you wouldn't want to take some of these guys on without considering less dangerous options either. If you can take a guy down legally, you live to fight another day. It's being smart.

F = m(a)... that's all it is.

You are not trying to stop force. You are trying to redirect it towards the ground or the sideline. That's a pretty fundamental lapse in understanding.

Dragda · Oct 14, 2014

I am the only one who seems to think this, but the pads hard shells and specifically helmets are weapons and injuries waiting to happen. I think we need to find a way to reduce pads. Take them all away and we'd probably have fewer injuries.

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

Dragda said:
I am the only one who seems to think this, but the pads hard shells and specifically helmets are weapons and injuries waiting to happen. I think we need to find a way to reduce pads. Take them all away and we'd probably have fewer injuries.

Agreed. All of the pads should be soft on the outside. The NFL doesn't want that because hits are a lot less exciting when you can't hear the "pop".

FirstAndGoal · Oct 14, 2014

Galeb said:
You are not trying to stop force. You are trying to redirect it towards the ground or the sideline. That's a pretty fundamental lapse in understanding.

and you do you wish to do that? You say good form tackling... I understand perfectly. You live in the world where everything happens the way it supposed to happen. Running backs run into the shoulder of defensive players who can knock them off balance with "good form tackling" lol...

Galeb · Oct 14, 2014

FirstAndGoal said:
and you do you wish to do that? You say good form tackling... I understand perfectly. You live in the world where everything happens the way it supposed to happen. Running backs run into the shoulder of defensive players who can knock them off balance with "good form tackling" lol...

If you played football and don't understand the concept of redirecting your opponents force, it will take a lot more than posting on a message board for me to help you. Try having one of your rl friends read the exchange we just had. Don't tell them which poster is you and then ask their honest opinion about the content and tone of what each of us posted.

BradyFTW! · Oct 14, 2014

varjao said:
I hold my breath yesterday right after his TD that the refs called a ghost holding, the next play Brady threw a short pass to him and while he was running he got tackled in the leg right when he planted his foot on the ground, exactly like in the Ward tackle, he got lucky in that play.

He's getting his confidence back and running wild again, I said before the season and I'll reinstate that I would like him to play soft sometimes, make the catch and get safe yacs, without getting into a battle for 2 or 3 yards with 3 DB's climbing him.

To be fair, McCourty could have wrecked Scott Chandler both knees in a play in the middle of the field, he went low and at full speed, these rules sucks.

Gronk got really lucky on that play precisely because his leg wasn't planted when the impact happened. If it had been, he would be out for the year again. The helmet hit him squarely on the knee.

The disgusting attacks on Gronk

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