Major issues with this team

Rob0729 said:

You do realize this is not the first primetime game where the Pats "couldn't get up" for a primetime game. Have you already forgotten the Sunday night game vs. San Fran a couple years back where the Pats were down 31-10 going into the fourth quarter (and were down 17-3 at the half just like they were on Monday)? Or how about last year when they were down 24-0 at halftime vs. the Broncos on primetime?

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I think what really bothers people is, in that SF game the Pats did mount a comeback scoring 31 points in the second half. And we know how that Broncos game ended.

They just gave up on Monday.

State said:

Vollmer isn't going to be demonstrative being German.

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I'm not sure what to make of this one. A German can't be demonstrative?

Ever hear of WWI and WWII?

Raymond said:

I think what really bothers people is, in that SF game the Pats did mount a comeback scoring 31 points in the second half. And we know how that Broncos game ended.

They just gave up on Monday.

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They scored 24 points in the fourth quarter while trailing 31-10 going into the quarter after Justin Smith got hurt and the 49ers going into a soft defensive shell. Once the Pats got back into the game, the 49ers got back to an aggressive defense and beat the Pats. The Pats mounted a comeback in large part because the 49ers got complacent protecting a three TD lead going into the 4th.

MrNathanDrake said:

Such a common theme since 2007 SB. Teams blitz and hit Brady all game, but our defense barely touches the opposing QB. We've seen it time and time again.
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This, this, and by Gawd THIS!

I am so tired of the passive, take no chances, bend (over) D we have been stuck with. If they go down with the CB's pressing and the front blitzing? I can live with that.

Greetings,
Tommy Kelly asked to be released, which is why he is no longer here.
Shalom,
Celticboy04

Rob0729 said:

They scored 24 points in the fourth quarter while trailing 31-10 going into the quarter after Justin Smith got hurt and the 49ers going into a soft defensive shell. Once the Pats got back into the game, the 49ers got back to an aggressive defense and beat the Pats. The Pats mounted a comeback in large part because the 49ers got complacent protecting a three TD lead going into the 4th.

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You need to argue every point don't you? I said Pats fans were bothered by their team giving up. That's pretty much a given with what we've seen this week on this board.

And you need to spin it into detail how SF LET them back into it. Almost every huge comeback in points by one team is a result of the other team letting off on the gas and playing complacent on D in some fashion. At least THAT Pats team had the balls and pride to make an effort.

Raymond said:

You need to argue every point don't you? I said Pats fans were bothered by their team giving up. That's pretty much a given with what we've seen this week on this board.

And you need to spin it into detail how SF LET them back into it. Almost every huge comeback in points by one team is a result of the other team letting off on the gas and playing complacent on D in some fashion. At least THAT Pats team had the balls and pride to make an effort.

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Whether they gave up or not, you changed the goal post of the discussion to begin with. I was responding to a post where the poster said it is pathetic to not get up for a primetime game. I gave two recent examples where the Pats clearly were not up for the game and slept walked through the first half of each game or longer.

Then you had to change the argument to try to discredit what I wrote. So don't throw it back in my face. My original point stands, the Pats have frequently not gotten up for primetime games. The rest is irrelevant. Yes, it is disheartening that the Pats didn't fight through it, but that isn't the discussion or what I was responding to.

BTW, I didn't spin anything. The 49ers did go from man coverage to zone in the fourth quarter in that game and their defense got worse after Justin Smith went out (not just that game, but subsequent weeks while he was still out). It is only natural that a team with a three TD lead in the fourth would let off the gas a bit. It is in part the Pats fought back, but the second the game was in doubt the 49ers returned to exactly what they were for the first three quarters and sacked Brady twice on one drive and forced them to a three and out on the next to score another 10 unanswered points.

This team lacks toughness, esp. on the offensive line. I think the very tough and strong--but athletically handicapped Jon Halapio--(a silly draft pick for us because of that pronounced limitation) was taken with this in mind.

Since he didn't make the team, and it was never even close, then the trade of Mankins seems even more foolish in hindsight.

If this team wins, we need a tough guy like LB Bryan Cox whose big hit rejuvenated the season for us way back in the very early 2000s against the Colts. Remember when Cox almost broke Jerome Pathon in half?

http://www.patsfans.com/bgeorge/story/022802-print.shtml

The guy who was capable of doing that for us is playing for the Bills, another tough guy we let go. I know Brandon Spikes was a liability in the passing game, but he was a tremendous thumper in the run game, which we certainly needed Monday night.

And the lack of physicality and athleticism of the defensive line, with the exception of Wolfork whom we're playing too much AGAIN, is very un-Belichick. I remember when he was coach of the Browns and the Parcells-led Patriots went to face them in the playoffs. Their d-line was too much for our offensive line.

Everyone makes mistakes in the draft. It's not a science. It's more of a crapshoot. Half of the first-rounders don't fully pan out. But certain picks change the whole complexion. When we could have had a stout 6' 4" 3-4 DE who grew up in NH and played for UConn, but instead went for a poorly coached Illinois secondary guy not even invited to the Combine, that hurts. When we could have replaced the deep threat Randy Moss posed to defenses--and the safeties for the Chiefs were not worried at all by our non-existent deep threat, since we don't have one--in drafting the Maryland WR speedster who plays for the Ravens, that hurts. We went for a guy the conventional thinking was too risky because of his long-standing history of injuries going back to his sophomore year of high school--it turns out in this instance convention wisdom was right.

State said:

I think there's more than smoke about the rumor that the greasey meatball Oline coach not interacting well with players. He picks guys from the practice squad (Devey) over starters Dante put in (Josh Kline) because of his fixation over mere size.

Does it seem that smart and sensitive Nate Solder, who has played much better than this, has checked out? Vollmer isn't going to be demonstrative being German. And there not much talent or the talent is in the form of rookies.

I don't think the new Oline coach is working out all that well.

Hey, Meatball, why don't you have Bill draft this huge guy from Nebraska for Patriot play? http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2325074/cottondown.0.gif

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You've got to be kidding me with the greasy meatball comment. Idiot.

Halifax_Pats_Fan said:

I ain't starting another thread but according to Mort from ESPN, Brady is unhappy with coaching on this team ... according to Mort...the 2014 version of 'they hate their coach'

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I can see this being somewhat true. I have never been a "Brady body language" guy, but he clearly off this year. He is doing what Bledsoe used to do before he was injured and lost his job - stare down receivers, make bad decisions, and just seem not have his head in the game at times. For all the talk about the o-line and his receiving weapons, he seems to be more of the problem than the solution this year. I think he may be feeling sorry for himself this year.

Part of me doesn't blame him. He is towards the end of his career and he feels a sense of urgency (moreso than Belichick and Kraft would who will most likely be here after he is gone). I would want the Pats to give him the 2007 offense every year until he retires if I was Brady too.

But he is the leader of this team and if he goes into a funk, the team will follow.

Rob0729 said:

Whether they gave up or not, you changed the goal post of the discussion to begin with. I was responding to a post where the poster said it is pathetic to not get up for a primetime game. I gave two recent examples where the Pats clearly were not up for the game and slept walked through the first half of each game or longer.

Then you had to change the argument to try to discredit what I wrote. So don't throw it back in my face. My original point stands, the Pats have frequently not gotten up for primetime games. The rest is irrelevant. Yes, it is disheartening that the Pats didn't fight through it, but that isn't the discussion or what I was responding to.

BTW, I didn't spin anything. The 49ers did go from man coverage to zone in the fourth quarter in that game and their defense got worse after Justin Smith went out (not just that game, but subsequent weeks while he was still out). It is only natural that a team with a three TD lead in the fourth would let off the gas a bit. It is in part the Pats fought back, but the second the game was in doubt the 49ers returned to exactly what they were for the first three quarters and sacked Brady twice on one drive and forced them to a three and out on the next to score another 10 unanswered points.

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Discredit? You need to get over yourself.

This is what I said. I simply made a comment as to how many Pats fans feel IMO.

I think what really bothers people is, in that SF game the Pats did mount a comeback scoring 31 points in the second half. And we know how that Broncos game ended.

They just gave up on Monday.

Don't bother adding another new paragraph in detail on that SF game.

Raymond said:

Discredit? You need to get over yourself.

This is what I said. I simply made a comment as to how many Pats fans feel IMO.

I think what really bothers people is, in that SF game the Pats did mount a comeback scoring 31 points in the second half. And we know how that Broncos game ended.

They just gave up on Monday.

Don't bother adding another new paragraph in detail on that SF game.

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I am not going to argue anymore. Maybe I misunderstood the point of your post. If I did, I am sorry.

Armchair Quarterback said:

You've got to be kidding me with the greasy meatball comment. Idiot.

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Jordan Devey. That was his baby. Now that's idiotic.

State said:

Jordan Devey. That was his baby. Now that's idiotic.

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You're a moron.

Rob0729 said:

You do realize this is not the first primetime game where the Pats "couldn't get up" for a primetime game. Have you already forgotten the Sunday night game vs. San Fran a couple years back where the Pats were down 31-10 going into the fourth quarter (and were down 17-3 at the half just like they were on Monday)? Or how about last year when they were down 24-0 at halftime vs. the Broncos on primetime?

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Yeah, but the CHIEFS in 2014 are not the 2013 Broncos or the 2012 49ers (both those teams went to the SuperBowl in those years).

Geezer Butler said:

I've come to the realization that the major problem with this team is the defensive scheme. I absolutely hate it.

This soft zone with no pressure was always dismissed as "well they have to play that way because they don't have the talent and don't want to get burned". That did make sense at the time because the offense could score at will. But now, we have major improvements in the backfield and an offense that is struggling and it's still the same old frustrating to watch crap. People complain about the talent and draft, but look at how a player as talented as Revis looks when he has to play ten yards off the line.

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Yeah it's terrible.

They played aggressive vs. Vikings but have played soft since then.

Meanwhile Brady gets destroyed every game, while our D barely touches the opposing QB.

bah, you're quackers Mr. Nathan Drake...the rest of the Pats opponents are nothing but ducks on a pond for Josh McFudd to shoot holes in...

I don't think all those things follow. Davis will play special teams in place of Ebner. KT hasn't been active and doesn't play STs so that's not relevant to Davis.

Kelly thought they were going to shift p-laying time away and he had incentives. He replaces a vet that's out in Az. He asked out and took a decent to huge paycut, now that Siliga's hurt. Maybe Kelly really wants to play a lot, likely, he would have played less if Siliga was healthy. He asked out, though.

The OLine needs to improve now and for the future. Obviously, Mankins if healthy is better now. In the future, he's ;ikely a high paid albatross. sucks to be a Pats fan, but that's why we go 12-4 instead of 4-12 when high priced players get old and won't negotiate.

Because it's "in the trenches" those deficiencies stand out, but every team has weak spots. Ours had a lot more last year. Hanging on to older players and not allowing young ones to grow isn't going to pay dividends IMO. Injuries are a crapshoot, but older players are more prone. In my opinion, Siliga and chris Jones could still be bouncing around had threy not received an opportunity to play and stink with games on the line, until they improved. Too bad siliga's injured. They need more depth now. maybe a one year vet rental on the OL or DL.

All other positions, IMO, we have plenty of personnel and are just sucking through bad attitude, coaching and whateve that elusive chemistry thing is.

woolster22 said:

...give him the ball again. Don't swap him out...

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These are good thoughts, but offered in a vacuum... was the run's success based on favorable personnel groupings? If I get the chance to play "Rock" to beat the opponents scissors... be careful about playing Rock again when they substitute in their Paper package...