Major issues with this team

Going into pre-season I thought this was a SuperBowl calibre team. I thought the Pats could compete for the #1 seed and home field advantage in the playoffs. Of course a lot can change between now and week 16 but from what I've seen so far, this looks like a team that will struggle for a wild card spot.

Tom Kelly was released. Logan Mankins was traded right before the season began. Dobson has been a healthy scratch. Now Kenbrell Thompkins is waived. All those guys were expected to be major players on this team, and 3 out of 4 of them are no longer on the team. Dobson is still unknown, but hasn't been contributing despite being healthy.

Is Ja'Gared Davis really going to contribute more than Kenbrell Thompkins would? Is Joe Vellano really a better option than Tommy Kelly? Is _insert lineman_ an upgrade over Logan Mankins? I think the talent was downgraded with all of those decisions.

Play calling is poor. Brady is making bad throws even when he has time. Amendola is invisible. The OLine is terrible, and has no continuity since the coaches are oddly changing o-lineman around every series. The OLine is what it is. They might gel and communicate better as the year goes on, but they are what they are. Solder has regressed big time and has looked like a turnstile.


Brady's body language is horrible. He wasn't like that when he was winning SB's. He used to be resilient, optimistic and poised. Now he slouches, mopes, walks with his head down, gets frustrated, and looks mentally defeated as soon as he gets hit or a WR drops a pass. Someone needs to get him a psychologist or pull him aside and show him tapes of what he used to look like in the early 2000's.

Josh McDaniels is predictable. Doesn't make good adjustments when Brady is getting killed. All the "McDaniels guys" that have been brought in were underwhelming or complete busts (Brandon Lloyd, Greg Salas, Tim Tebow)


Defense has looked hit or miss. Great at times, terrible at others. The players are good but the inconsistency leads me to believe the problem is with the play calling and game planning.


We got stomped by the Dolphins, barely beat the Raiders at Foxboro, and got humiliated by the Chiefs on primetime. Yeah the team looked good against the Vikings, minus the first defensive series, but not every team has Matt Cassel at QB. The Pats played an attacking style of defense that game and dominated, but haven't attacked nearly as much since then. Alex Smith barely got touched.

Revis hasn't looked great. I think he's being criticized more than he should, but he hasn't shut anyone down except Greg Jennings. The Wallace TD in week 1 was a lucky bounce off his knee, and Revis was about an inch from knocking down a key pass against Dwayne Bowe. I think he'll improve, but he isn't being used as a shut down corner.

Chandler Jones looks great at times. Then he gets misused at other times (Miami) and looks gassed out in other games (Chiefs).

There has been rumors about McDaniels and Dobson having issues. There have also been rumors about the OLineman having issues with the new OLine coach.

Such a common theme since 2007 SB. Teams blitz and hit Brady all game, but our defense barely touches the opposing QB. We've seen it time and time again.

I don't even know how to fix the team this year. They look all around terrible so far. It might be time for a coaching change.

You may as well stop watching.

patman12 said:

You may as well stop watching.

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i'll watch even if they go 2-14.

I think there's more than smoke about the rumor that the greasey meatball Oline coach not interacting well with players. He picks guys from the practice squad (Devey) over starters Dante put in (Josh Kline) because of his fixation over mere size.

Does it seem that smart and sensitive Nate Solder, who has played much better than this, has checked out? Vollmer isn't going to be demonstrative being German. And there not much talent or the talent is in the form of rookies.

I don't think the new Oline coach is working out all that well.

Hey, Meatball, why don't you have Bill draft this huge guy from Nebraska for Patriot play? http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2325074/cottondown.0.gif

We're five days removed from the happening, man.

We're on to Cincinnati.

PATS16N0 said:

We're five days removed from the happening, man.

We're on to Cincinnati.

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It wasn't just one game though. It was Miami in week 1, Oakland in week 3, then KC in week 4 on prime time.

If you can't get up for a MNF game on primetime, something is seriously wrong.

That's why we heard the disgust in Rodney Harrison's voice. The lack of energy, lack of fire.

What causes it? We don't have enough tough guys on this team. We lost a real tough dude in Mankins, the heart of the Oline, even if his play had deteriorated.

MrNathanDrake said:

i'll watch even if they go 2-14.

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I watched them go 2-14 back in the early 90s, 1993 I believe. That was tough, but made the rise to success all the more sweet. For us long-term fans (and I'm 30, so as long-term a fan as possible for my lifetime), it just saddens me to see the team struggling so much when it comes to pursuing talent and talented coaches (beyond our headcoach, who is a football - if not personal and personnel -- genius.

State said:

That's why we heard the disgust in Rodney Harrison's voice. The lack of energy, lack of fire.

What causes it? We don't have enough tough guys on this team. We lost a real tough dude in Mankins, the heart of the Oline, even if his play had deteriorated.

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I partly blame Brady. He is THE leader on this team, and as I noted in the OP… his attitude sucks right now. They follow his lead.

When Garopollo entered the game, he came in with a positive upbeat energy and the rest of the offense followed. The entire team offense looked revived.

I'm assuming you are thinking oc/dc change? I think Bill needs to bring in someone to challenge him on dc philosophy, while bringing in an oc that isn't a megalomaniac dbag, convinced he can outsmart the world with his unexpected (i.e. wrong personnel wrong use, rather than surprise call in a funky situation) calls. A reasonable "unexpected" call is attempting a deep play action pass on second and short between the forties(ish, hell into the red zone). However, following that with a Vereen run up the gut, or Ridley sprint stretch (to the side of the struggling tackle), is the call of a megalomaniac moron.

Inside your own forty, when the pure runner rips off seven yards, give him the ball again. Don't swap him out for two scat backs and go spread for two plays. If you want to pull that crap inside the opposing thirty five (after I'd assume you ride your RUNNING back and mix in play action with a few quick hitters to get the receivers involved) I'd get it (maybe). The same applies for the beginning of the game as well. Hmmm, struggling oline (not bad last week, in my ignorant opinion, not good either) with the RG who looked serviceable out and being replaced by good knows who...if this moron comes out with a pass on first down instead of 2wr/1te(heavy package even)/Develin/Ridley BB needs to send his ass packing before the second down call. Hell, I'd even go two te, and Lafell and just beat it down their throats like I'm Rex Ryan circa 2010.

If the game plan is about spread 'm out, get Brady killed, he Damn well better have Dobson and Wright involved. Wright had a decent block on a run play he was in on last week(what he get, six snaps? Lol, nice trade coach). He can stay in for protection (might get the defense to check out of a LB overload if involved in the pass) just as well as Hooma-useless.

State said:

I think there's more than smoke about the rumor that the greasey meatball Oline coach not interacting well with players. He picks guys from the practice squad (Devey) over starters Dante put in (Josh Kline) because of his fixation over mere size.

Does it seem that smart and sensitive Nate Solder, who has played much better than this, has checked out? Vollmer isn't going to be demonstrative being German. And there not much talent or the talent is in the form of rookies.

I don't think the new Oline coach is working out all that well.

Hey, Meatball, why don't you have Bill draft this huge guy from Nebraska for Patriot play? http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2325074/cottondown.0.gif

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Greasy meatball?
Vollmer not demonstrative because German?

Well done, an ethnic slur and an ethnic stereotype in the same post!

You clearly have an axe to grind that they didn't hire your guy from Michigan State to coach oline. Obviously the line hasn't performed anywhere near where anyone would find acceptable. It may all be Coach DeG's fault for all we know.

One thing I know, that I can promise, is you won't see me resorting to ridiculous name calling just because things aren't going well. I'll continue to be an adult. I won't stomp and whine like a little child who knows no better.

This forum is ridiculous lately, entitled whininess is at an all time high and I myself find it too much. There is no need to name call. Let's try to operate at a higher level of discourse.

You know, like real life adult grown ups do.

We are gonna be ok...Kurt Warner is coming on GameDay Morning to fix Brady's problems...we're good...

You're right, HRM Boy.... Warner is the saviour.

State said:

I think there's more than smoke about the rumor that the greasey meatball Oline coach not interacting well with players. He picks guys from the practice squad (Devey) over starters Dante put in (Josh Kline) because of his fixation over mere size.

Does it seem that smart and sensitive Nate Solder, who has played much better than this, has checked out? Vollmer isn't going to be demonstrative being German. And there not much talent or the talent is in the form of rookies.

I don't think the new Oline coach is working out all that well.

Hey, Meatball, why don't you have Bill draft this huge guy from Nebraska for Patriot play? http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2325074/cottondown.0.gif

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Yeah, let's bring back Scarnecchia, that other "greasy meatball Oline coach.". How long before we start throwing around the " N word" around here?

I would like to feel better about this team.

That said, the only real issue I would ever have is if they moved

MainePatsFan26 said:

I watched them go 2-14 back in the early 90s, 1993 I believe. That was tough, but made the rise to success all the more sweet. For us long-term fans (and I'm 30, so as long-term a fan as possible for my lifetime), it just saddens me to see the team struggling so much when it comes to pursuing talent and talented coaches (beyond our headcoach, who is a football - if not personal and personnel -- genius.

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I was in college during that glorious 1989-1993 era. So thankful I was able to drown myself in Natural Light, grain alcohol and bong water.

I've come to the realization that the major problem with this team is the defensive scheme. I absolutely hate it.

This soft zone with no pressure was always dismissed as "well they have to play that way because they don't have the talent and don't want to get burned". That did make sense at the time because the offense could score at will. But now, we have major improvements in the backfield and an offense that is struggling and it's still the same old frustrating to watch crap. People complain about the talent and draft, but look at how a player as talented as Revis looks when he has to play ten yards off the line.

In the championship years the players where so intelligent that they would play the bend don't break but knew on their own when to switch it up and come up and be aggressive. This doesn't happen now, for whatever reason. Probably due to the young players being in awe of the genius and them not having strong personalities like McGinest, Law or Vrable who were football smart themselves and had the balls to stand up for what they thought was the right thing to do.

Also, I feel (hope) the oline will get better. Check out this great reddit thread on their play:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/comments/2ib2mx/a_playbyplay_look_at_the_patriots_offensive_line/

Fleming really was the worst, Solder being second imo. They did have some plays where they looked really good, something to build on. I think if they start Wendell beside Stork and let that unit gel it will get a lot better, and we know Solder is better than he has shown. Also, notice the two picks Brady threw, line was solid on both of those so those are on him, although that's probably a symptom of his lack of faith in the protection to begin with.

MrNathanDrake said:

It wasn't just one game though. It was Miami in week 1, Oakland in week 3, then KC in week 4 on prime time.

If you can't get up for a MNF game on primetime, something is seriously wrong.

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You do realize this is not the first primetime game where the Pats "couldn't get up" for a primetime game. Have you already forgotten the Sunday night game vs. San Fran a couple years back where the Pats were down 31-10 going into the fourth quarter (and were down 17-3 at the half just like they were on Monday)? Or how about last year when they were down 24-0 at halftime vs. the Broncos on primetime?

If you watch the coaches film you will see they were really surprised by the defensive schemes. KC put 6 in the box on some plays, played a lot of rotation zone, more disguises than usual, switched between one and two gap with some pretty good stunts. They even showed some 6-1 with a rover. Then they would go vanilla base 3-4. Brady was pretty confused, some of his reads sucked and when he got good reads the confused OL collapsed.

MrNathanDrake said:

i'll watch even if they go 2-14.

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At least then you'd have more valid reasons to complain.

I'm all for constructive criticism like the OL is horrific or Revis is being missed or Brady has missed some open throws, but things like body language and Dobson rumors detract from your positions.