Why did it take a national TV beatdown to realise the obvious?

PrairiePat · Oct 1, 2014

Observer said:
Plenty of people realized through several years now that an O-line that started to show chinks in its armor in 2007 has continued to get weaker and weaker without being adequately addressed. Couple that with the fact that the team's greatest strength is Brady with a clean pocket, the real question is why the supposed smartest guy in the room (BB) neglected it to the point that it is single-handedly destroying any chance this team has this year.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the entire OL has been replaced through the draft in the time period you're talking about here. You can argue about the quality of the replacements, but it's hardly been 'neglected'.

Kontradiction · Oct 1, 2014

JackBauer said:
And on the flip side, there's an entire cohort of posters gracing us whom we never see unless the Pats are struggling, as they are now.

That's the flip side of it. But those people are mostly well disguised trolls. The homers are supposed to be the super fans but, if you look at it from a psychological standpoint, that sort of undying and unwavering faith that everything the status quo is doing is correct (or that the status quo always knows better) doesn't lend itself to supporting a losing team. That's why the homers will be the very first to bail on this place when the team starts hitting 4-12, 5-11 years.

Patstopia · Oct 1, 2014

I must have missed something here, were we in the championship game last year and the year before, super bowl year before that? Have I slept so long that I missed a season or 2? What the heck are you folks talking about. We lost, got murdered, slaughtered, and then there is the next game, and the one after, and the one after..... There is a three quarters of a season left. It's time to stop sobbing and get on with rooting for the rest of the season.

FCB02062 · Oct 1, 2014

I'd like to know how many superfans on here were arou d for rod rust, **** McPherson, ray berry/coach coconuts (thx kevin mannix), Victor kiam...etc...im with the pats thru thick and thin and as a die hard fan who sat thru ****e at Foxboro stadium in the late 80s/early 90s its my right to call a spade a spade...right now the pats suck and the coaches and players better get their heads out from where the sun dont shine or they're looking at 8-8...the institutional arrogance is mindblowing

Rob0729 · Oct 1, 2014

KontradictioN said:
The homers will either be right there with everyone else or they will abandon ship. As I keep saying, once the ship sinks, the homers will be the first to evacuate. I could fire off a few names around here that are conspicuous by their absence.

This should be an interesting game, though. If the defensive coaching staff can pull their heads out of their asses and use their personnel correctly (and not the way Schiano used his last year... which was possibly the most ******ed thing I've ever seen), we could shut down the Bengals through the air and load that box to stop the run. But, again, this would mean that the defensive coaches, BB included, stop trying to force square pegs into round holes.

Extreme homers and extreme chicken littles/haters all act the same. They only show up when the team is performing as to fit their agenda/point of view. But I always found the chicken littles/haters worse because, whether they are a truly fan or trolls posing as fans, many of them root against the team to do well (consciously or unconsciously) just so they can be right. Those are the worst kind of fans.

I would point these people out, but I won't. But look to some of the signatures on their posts and you can guess some of the people I mean.

captain stone · Oct 1, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
What Truth? The team predictably lost a game on the road to a good opponent.

You just want to play drama queen as you tell us who should have been drafted in the the last three years, I note that many of your Monday Morning recommendation have turned out to be now Jailbirds, or PED-ophiles, or outright Busts.

Do you have any examples, or are you just spewing the company line, as usual?

Deus Irae · Oct 1, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
What Truth? The team predictably lost a game on the road to a good opponent.

You just want to play drama queen as you tell us who should have been drafted in the the last three years, I note that many of your Monday Morning recommendation have turned out to be now Jailbirds, or PED-ophiles, or outright Busts.

You've really taken your homerism way too far lately. Seriously, you need to take a step back.

Jimke · Oct 1, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
What Truth? The team predictably lost a game on the road to a good opponent.

You just want to play drama queen as you tell us who should have been drafted in the the last three years, I note that many of your Monday Morning recommendation have turned out to be now Jailbirds, or PED-ophiles, or outright Busts.

Jimke · Oct 1, 2014

I started following the team at their formation in 1959 and have been in love with them ever since.
BUT
I saw them blow a game to Miami in an awful second half breakdown.
Beat an awful Vikings team with no Peterson and a mistake prone Matt Cassel.
Play an awful offensive game and beat a bad Oakland team thanks to a penalty and tipped interception.
Get steam rollered by a beatable team that badly outplayed and outcoached us.

I blame Belichick for his draft failures, poor free agent signings, failure to re-sign inexpensive veterans who had performed
well, cutting veterans with no ready replacements, and bad game planning.

stinkypete · Oct 1, 2014

Something still doesn't compute. Brady had essentially the same offensive talent around him a year ago, and he played significantly better.

The decline is real. It's not end of the line real, but it's real.

Deus Irae · Oct 1, 2014

stinkypete said:
Brady had essentially the same offensive talent around him a year ago, and he played significantly better.

This underlying assumption is incorrect. The failure to compute starts there.

Clonamery · Oct 1, 2014

Jimke said:
I started following the team at their formation in 1959 and have been in love with them ever since.
BUT
I saw them blow a game to Miami in an awful second half breakdown.
Beat an awful Vikings team with no Peterson and a mistake prone Matt Cassel.
Play an awful offensive game and beat a bad Oakland team thanks to a penalty and tipped interception.
Get steam rollered by a beatable team that badly outplayed and outcoached us.

I blame Belichick for his draft failures, poor free agent signings, failure to re-sign inexpensive veterans who had performed
well, cutting veterans with no ready replacements, and bad game planning.

Who else would you blame?

Observer · Oct 1, 2014

PrairiePat said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the entire OL has been replaced through the draft in the time period you're talking about here. You can argue about the quality of the replacements, but it's hardly been 'neglected'.

I have to call it neglect because of : 1. The quality of replacement 2. The timing of replacement

Our offensive linemen at the moment:

1. Solder - Round 1
2. Vollmer - Round 2
3. Cannon - Round 5
4. Connolly - UDFA
5. Wendell - UDFA
6. Devey - UDFA
7. Kline - UDFA
8. Stork - Round 4 (rookie)
9. Fleming - Round 4 (rookie)

Aside from Solder and Vollmer, all others are UDFA and not particularly good at their jobs. Stork and Fleming at least used some draft capital but they came much too late. Meanwhile our high rounders Solder, Vollmer and Cannon are all underperforming.

Given that there is a huge gulf in Brady's performance when he has time in the pocket vs. when he is pressured, I would have expected our line to receive more attention, that is all.

English Patriot · Oct 1, 2014

stinkypete said:
Something still doesn't compute. Brady had essentially the same offensive talent around him a year ago, and he played significantly better.

The decline is real. It's not end of the line real, but it's real.

That's a JOKE of an argument to make. The fact is sooner or later you are going to stop asking for miracles from him because he's 37, i'm willing to bet anything if he gets places switched with that guy in Denver, they'd be undefeated.

Brady has not diminished it's just they're asking him to do too much, too often.

Brady'sButtBoy · Oct 1, 2014

I am the world's biggest TB12 fan (just see my moniker) but Brady's 'frustration,' or whatever he or the supposed Brady sycophants (Dilfer and Young for two) in the media have chosen to label his persistent sour disposition to be, has polluted Tom's head to the point that he can't (or won't) play as well as he can. I tell you what, if I'm a teammate I'm pissed about TB12's saying, "we'll see," today when he was asked if the team had adequate talent to actually improve. TB12 always had his teammate's back until now. Evidently he has finally decided he's been treated unfairly or unjustly by the team trading away Mankins - a kind of last straw. This ill will has infiltrated his once determined and ultra positive demeanor - the two key 'intangibles' that vaulted him into the GOAT debate. It has dug so deep into his mind and manner that he can't see the forest for the trees right now, throwing to soon, throwing to covered receivers, throwing to nobody but the opposing team as if he's just given up or - and this is a big 'or' - is trying to make a point to his bosses.

Too f-ing bad, I say. If you're tired of making everyone else better, tired of hauling your friends and teammates to heights they'd never have reached without you, tired of being the one who had to make up for the mistakes of players, coaches and management, then it means, Tom, that you're tired of being successful. The insane millions, the unrelenting fame, the marvelous, striking list of accomplishments, that never used to matter. Sadly, I get the sense that TB12 has let all that creep into his head and has begun to behave as a diva does - "HEY, can't you fools see what I'm doing for you here???"

I don't know how many folks noticed how bouncy and energetic the team suddenly seemed when Jimmy G. entered the game. It was as if the whole offense could finally exhale and just play football. The hell with what the kid did or even if he was any good ( and I am not saying he is), they just seemed to be having a fun again. And it struck me that it wasn't BB who was losing the team, but TB12 himself.

PATS16N0 · Oct 1, 2014

Brady'sButtBoy said:
I am the world's biggest TB12 fan (just see my moniker) but Brady's 'frustration,' or whatever he or the supposed Brady sycophants (Dilfer and Young for two) in the media have chosen to label his persistent sour disposition to be, has polluted Tom's head to the point that he can't (or won't) play as well as he can. I tell you what, if I'm a teammate I'm pissed about TB12's saying, "we'll see," today when he was asked if the team had adequate talent to actually improve. TB12 always had his teammate's back until now. Evidently he has finally decided he's been treated unfairly or unjustly by the team trading away Mankins - a kind of last straw. This ill will has infiltrated his once determined and ultra positive demeanor - the two key 'intangibles' that vaulted him into the GOAT debate. It has dug so deep into his mind and manner that he can't see the forest for the trees right now, throwing to soon, throwing to covered receivers, throwing to nobody but the opposing team as if he's just given up or - and this is a big 'or' - is trying to make a point to his bosses.

Too f-ing bad, I say. If you're tired of making everyone else better, tired of hauling your friends and teammates to heights they'd never have reached without you, tired of being the one who had to make up for the mistakes of players, coaches and management, then it means, Tom, that you're tired of being successful. The insane millions, the unrelenting fame, the marvelous, striking list of accomplishments, that never used to matter. Sadly, I get the sense that TB12 has let all that creep into his head and has begun to behave as a diva does - "HEY, can't you fools see what I'm doing for you here???"

I don't know how many folks noticed how bouncy and energetic the team suddenly seemed when Jimmy G. entered the game. It was as if the whole offense could finally exhale and just play football. The hell with what the kid did or even if he was any good ( and I am not saying he is), they just seemed to be having a fun again. And it struck me that it wasn't BB who was losing the team, but TB12 himself.

Tom has every right to be pissed, and to be perfectly honest, he should of been mad last year.
One thing I can guarantee you is that Peyton Manning doesn't put up with this crap. He tells his team what he needs, and makes sure they provide it.

I can't praise Peyton for everything, but I can give him credit for that. Tom has been Mr. Team for too long, taking whatever egg Belichick and Kraft have thrown in his face after he covers up all their idiocy.

Well, he just can't do it anymore. He can make nobody receivers look like all stars, but he can't make an offensive line THIS bad look like anything but who they really are.

Last year this team was bad. It was injured and it was bad, and Tom willed it to the AFC Championship, just like he dragged our defense, kicking and screaming, to the Superbowl in 2011.

What do you want from him? To take endless crap from the Patriots organization with his few remaining seasons? He's been chasing history since 2004 and the Patriots have let him down.

Almost ever fan base in football, including the Jets who DESPISE US, know Tom Brady should have Superbowl rings for just about every finger by now. This is just BS, and if the result of the Mankinds trade was the last straw, who can blame him?

stephens44 · Oct 2, 2014

Looking at the first SB team, Brady had "no one" to throw to and the Defense more or less carried the team. The only hope I see for this year's team is if/when the D gels and Brady gets on the same page as his receivers. I also recall when Bledsoe had plenty of weapons on offense and that wasn't always the cure for all ills either. Personally I see McDaniels system as being overly complex and him over-thinking situations which leads to failure... Just a few thoughts anyway, been watching this team since people *****ed about Grogan...

Brady'sButtBoy · Oct 2, 2014

"Tom has every right to be pissed, and to be perfectly honest, he should of been mad last year.
One thing I can guarantee you is that Peyton Manning doesn't put up with this crap. He tells his team what he needs, and makes sure they provide it.

I can't praise Peyton for everything, but I can give him credit for that. Tom has been Mr. Team for too long, taking whatever egg Belichick and Kraft have thrown in his face after he covers up all their idiocy.

Well, he just can't do it anymore. He can make nobody receivers look like all stars, but he can't make an offensive line THIS bad look like anything but who they really are.

Last year this team was bad. It was injured and it was bad, and Tom willed it to the AFC Championship, just like he dragged our defense, kicking and screaming, to the Superbowl in 2011.

What do you want from him? To take endless crap from the Patriots organization with his few remaining seasons? He's been chasing history since 2004 and the Patriots have let him down.

Almost ever fan base in football, including the Jets who DESPISE US, know Tom Brady should have Superbowl rings for just about every finger by now. This is just BS, and if the result of the Mankinds trade was the last straw, who can blame him?"

No Brady does not have the "right to be pissed." Because then it's about him, no longer about winning. If Brady had ever thought that way before he'd never have climbed as high as he has. Once it's about yourself and not the team and not winning, then you are a diva who wants satisfaction, wants to be recognized, to be treated 'properly,' not win Super Bowls. It's a stark difference we as Pats fans should see plainly because Brady has been ultimate team player and star for 14 years.

IllegalContact · Oct 2, 2014

stephens44 said:
Looking at the first SB team, Brady had "no one" to throw to and the Defense more or less carried the team. The only hope I see for this year's team is if/when the D gels and Brady gets on the same page as his receivers. I also recall when Bledsoe had plenty of weapons on offense and that wasn't always the cure for all ills either. Personally I see McDaniels system as being overly complex and him over-thinking situations which leads to failure... Just a few thoughts anyway, been watching this team since people *****ed about Grogan...

Brady was sacked more frequently in 2001 than he is now....and that was a game plan to minimize pressure on him. He didn't seem to be so pissed back then.

When Bledsoe turned into a statue (like Brady is now) and got sacked 55 times in a season, everyone blames him, and he still had the graciousness to not piss and moan

He is still friends with max lane

PrairiePat · Oct 2, 2014

Observer said:
I have to call it neglect because of : 1. The quality of replacement 2. The timing of replacement

Our offensive linemen at the moment:

1. Solder - Round 1
2. Vollmer - Round 2
3. Cannon - Round 5
4. Connolly - UDFA
5. Wendell - UDFA
6. Devey - UDFA
7. Kline - UDFA
8. Stork - Round 4 (rookie)
9. Fleming - Round 4 (rookie)

Aside from Solder and Vollmer, all others are UDFA and not particularly good at their jobs. Stork and Fleming at least used some draft capital but they came much too late. Meanwhile our high rounders Solder, Vollmer and Cannon are all underperforming.

Given that there is a huge gulf in Brady's performance when he has time in the pocket vs. when he is pressured, I would have expected our line to receive more attention, that is all.

A little perspective - the OL had 3 guys at or near ProBowl stature going into last season; they were considered one of the top OLines in the NFL. Between them and Dante's success in turning lower-drafted guys into solid linemen, who could blame BB for focusing on the horrible defense and wide receivers in the 2013 draft? The team had more pressing needs at that point.

After last year, when all 3 of these guys regressed to some degree, they did grab 2 OL in the draft, but you're right in that it has turned out to be too little too late for the early part of this season at least.

I guess what I'm saying is that this didn't seem like a problem area until last season, but people are killing BB for this as though it's been a huge, glaring issue for years now. If he had drafted more OL guys in 2012/2013, you'd be killing him for not drafting defensive guys or receivers.

Why did it take a national TV beatdown to realise the obvious?

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

On my retirement tour.

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

On the Game Day Roster

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Similar threads