Getting rid of Mankins = biggest mistake

DarrylS said:

Funny you say that, heard Zolak speak about this the the other day.. he claims that half time adjustments are a myth as it takes about 2 minutes to get everyone back from the field and then about 2 to get back to the field, then there are those how have to use the bathroom, make uniform adjustments or pick up some nourishment.. then the coaches have to make decisions... in reality there is not a lot of time for 1/2 time adjustments..

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The Coordiantors and those making the calls on the field only need to get together.

Weis and Brady used to adjust the game plan at the half. The Jets game in NY 2001 is a perfect example.

But I can believe that Josh McDaniels isn't making any kind of adjustment.

Triumph said:

The Coordiantors and those making the calls on the field only need to get together.

Weis and Brady used to adjust the game plan at the half. The Jets game in NY 2001 is a perfect example.

But I can believe that Josh McDaniels isn't making any kind of adjustment.

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Stop with McDaniels isn't making any kind of adjustments. He doesn't use the same game plan all game long. He makes adjustments. They may not work, but he is making adjustments.

And people complained about Weis not making adjustments, giving up on the run, etc. People forget 2003 and 2002. I don't want the Pats to bring back Charlie Weis. I want them to bring back this legendy figure that fans have turned him into back to the Patriots. Other than 2004, people trashed Weis all the time.

I sort of agree.

the legend of Mankins last year has grown to astronomical records due to our bad start this year. but its easy to forget he was HORRIBLE in pass protection and gave up 11 sacks last year. so, its not like adding him to the line would automatically make our offense better. now, he would at least know the calls and is more physical than what we currently have.

the issue I had was the timing of the trade. It was too late in camp for them to have a set backup plan and have the line get continuity. say mankins was traded before camp started. you would have time to find the best combination and have those guys get enough time together to build chemistry.

that was done too late, which is why our OL is trying to find the best combination/chemistry NOW during games that count. this is their pre-season/training camp.

so, I dont necessarily have a problem with trading mankins. I do have a problem with the timing of it. Also, if you are going to trade him for a move TE. and not let that TE even see the field. there is another problem there.

I don't have a problem with trading Mankins. He really isn't as good as people who are complaining about him not being her claim he is. I blame Belichick for trading him without a plan in place and/or making a smart adjustment to compensate the loss.

Usually when Belichick makes these moves, he has a back up plan or makes moves early in the season to cover for the move. Right now he is clueless on how to fix the o-line problems and just throwing crap against the wall. That is his biggest mistake.

I find it interesting that some think one player can make an entire OL regress the way the Pats OL has regressed this year and not mention the fact that the position coach changed from a legend to one that has bounced around the NFL and if your read about him was horrible everywhere he was OL coach.

I don't see Googs being here next year.....heck I think BB will make wholesale changes at many coaching spots after this season.

ctpatsfan1 said:

I find it interesting that some think one player can make an entire OL regress the way the Pats OL has regressed this year and not mention the fact that the position coach changed from a legend to one that has bounced around the NFL and if your read about him was horrible everywhere he was OL coach.

I don't see Googs being here next year.....heck I think BB will make wholesale changes at many coaching spots after this season.

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That's the thing. People act like if Mankins was here, Brady would be able to eat a sandwich in the backfield before he throws the ball. Mankins would help some, but the o-line problems are way bigger than the loss of Mankins. If you want to blame Belichick, blame him for not doing enough to help this o-line.

Rob0729 said:

Stop with McDaniels isn't making any kind of adjustments. He doesn't use the same game plan all game long. He makes adjustments. They may not work, but he is making adjustments.

And people complained about Weis not making adjustments, giving up on the run, etc. People forget 2003 and 2002. I don't want the Pats to bring back Charlie Weis. I want them to bring back this legendy figure that fans have turned him into back to the Patriots. Other than 2004, people trashed Weis all the time.

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Maybe you and NEM trashed Weis.

What adjustments did McDisater make vs KC? NE brought 5 RBs. Did he try to pound the ball in the 2nd half only down 17? NO he did not as NE came out and passed 3 straight times and punted.

Triumph said:

Establish the run.

The Pats can eek out at least 3.3 ypc. Today, Ridley is averaging 3.6 ypc and Vereen 4.4 ypc. Its a myth that NE cant run the ball. They WONT run the ball in the "Ground Hog day" offense.

If the Pats do not make a serious effort to establish the running game vs Cincinnati they will lose.

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Don't hold your breath.

The Raiders have a horrible run defense and we didn't try to establish the run against them.

The Chiefs also have a bad run defense and were playing backup LBs and we didn't try to run.

Triumph said:

Maybe you and NEM trashed Weis.

What adjustments did McDisater make vs KC? NE brought 5 RBs. Did he try to pound the ball in the 2nd half only down 17? NO he did not as NE came out and passed 3 straight times and punted.

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I never trashed Weis, but plenty of people did. The 2003 offense was way mediocre with A LOT of 3 and outs. The Pats had four games that season where they didn't score a single TD. Weis did a poor job that year (the defense carried the team in 2003) and a mixed year in 2002.

I can't remember the exact adjustments, but anyone who thinks after not doing anything on offense early in the game McDaniels just decided to run it again because eventually it will work don't understand football. McDaniels did a horrible job adjusting in that game, but he did make adjustments. Every coordinator makes adjustments. To say otherwise shows a lack of football knowledge.

It's hard to argue this. But hindsight is 20/20. Which is pretty damn easy to do! I can tell you the winning lottery numbers from last Saturday night.
Show me your post right after the trade where you say that the Oline is going to be a complete disaster without Mankins, where Solder is going to completely regress to a level we have never seen out of him and where Cannon and Devey will be borderline turnstiles.
More illuminating would be your opinions on how to fix it.

This is not hindsight, many of us saw the Mankins trade as a big mistake and questioned the value of Wright in return.....

yeah....people were hyping Wright big time.......really sad.

Rob0729 said:

That's the thing. People act like if Mankins was here, Brady would be able to eat a sandwich in the backfield before he throws the ball. Mankins would help some, but the o-line problems are way bigger than the loss of Mankins. If you want to blame Belichick, blame him for not doing enough to help this o-line.

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No, people are acting like if Mankins were here, the OL group would have a veteran leader, a guy who set the tone, a guy who could run block, and a guy that provided continuity. One thing is sure, we would not be playing musical chairs with the LG position with Mankins here.

Hey! Is there any other spilled milk to be fretted over?

I'm still kinda mad about marquise hill over Darnell dockett

IllegalContact said:

Hey! Is there any other spilled milk to be fretted over?

I'm still kinda mad about marquise hill over Darnell dockett

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I suppose we have a message board expressly for the purpose of making inane and useless comments. Obviously, this message board is not for discussing the Patriots.

This trade is tough to swallow because: It pissed Brady off, the line is bad and the pats are well under the cap. Does not help that Wright is not even involved in the offense. It remains to be seen if that 4th round pick is worth it.

Yes we can agree that Mankins was not going to quite live up to what he is getting paid. However he was a veteran, a leader, tough SOB and Brady s favorite line player. This line could only be better with him in.

ensoul said:

This trade is tough to swallow because: It pissed Brady off, the line is bad and the pats are well under the cap. Does not help that Wright is not even involved the offense. It remains to be seen if that 4th round pick is worth it.

Yes we can agree that Mankins was not going to quite live up to what he is getting paid. However he was a veteran, a leader, tough SOB and Bradys favorite line player. This line could only be better with him in.

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Apparently, we are expected to believe that the line is better without him and that Wright is going to be the next Jimmy Graham...He was the best rookie TE in history!

Nunchucks said:

No, people are acting like if Mankins were here, the OL group would have a veteran leader, a guy who set the tone, a guy who could run block, and a guy that provided continuity. One thing is sure, we would not be playing musical chairs with the LG position with Mankins here.

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So they would have veteran leadership showing how the 0-line sucks. People forget that one of the biggest problems have been the tackles. Mankins would do absolutely nothing to help out Vollmer and the RT. He would have done nothing allowing Solder get burnt badly by Hali.

Nunchucks said:

I suppose we have a message board expressly for the purpose of making inane and useless comments. Obviously, this message board is not for discussing the Patriots.

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C'mon..... Complaining about the mankins trade is somehow useful? Maybe even intelligent?

Rob0729 said:

So they would have veteran leadership showing how the 0-line sucks. People forget that one of the biggest problems have been the tackles. Mankins would do absolutely nothing to help out Vollmer and the RT. He would have done nothing allowing Solder get burnt badly by Hali.

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You just pointed out two plays. Nicely done. How many snaps on offense has there been? Mankins would not have been a problem on the OL....an OL that is right now full of questionmarks.

IllegalContact said:

C'mon..... Complaining about the mankins trade is somehow useful? Maybe even intelligent?

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Yes, you are adding so much insight to this discussion...a thread titled
"Getting rid of Mankins = biggest mistake"

Are you so shocked that on the 3rd page that I am discussing the trade? Maybe you should look in a different thread if you want to discuss something else?

Perhaps you would like to discuss the value of widgets in a thread titled "Ice cream sundaes and you"