The Basic Problem - As I See It

I've been avoiding the main board since Monday, trying to ignore the meltdown. Others have commented on most issues, from all perspectives. But as I see it, the Pats' rather sudden and dramatic drop this season comes down to a basic set of problems: too much youth, too little leadership, and too little mental toughness.

Tom Brady alluded to some of these issues today:

“I think you gotta have enough mental toughness to endure through all of the tough situations,” Brady said Wednesday morning on WEEI radio. “It tests your will, it tests your mental discipline and your work ethic. I think those are things that are going to be tested by us for the rest of the year. I don’t think it’s going to be easy to roll our helmets out there and expect to go out there and win games.

“There’s no magic play. There’s no magic scheme. It’s up to the players to play a lot better than we’re playing. This hasn’t been an isolated incident. I don’t think offensively we’ve played well all year. I don’t think we’ve played well for a long time. We’ve gotta figure out the reason why we’re not playing as well as we’re capable and try to improve them.”

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http://nesn.com/2014/10/tom-brady-patriots-need-mental-toughness-no-magic-play-to-snap-skid/

This team has gotten very young, very fast. There's a reasonable core of leadership on defense - Wilfork, Mayo, Ninkovich and McCourty have all been captains - but very little on offense outside of Brady. Logan Mankins' play had deteriorated significantly, but his toughness and leadership couldn't be questioned. The offense is extremely young.

There have been some clear warning signs about a lack of leadership on offense. People commented earlier this season on little things like Brady getting knocked down and none of his linemen picking him up. Tedy Bruschi commented earlier this season (before the Miami opener) that he was a bit surprised about Dan Connelly being named a captain, as he didn't see Connolly being the kind of tough, vocal leader that Mankins had been:

The only real surprise is Dan Connolly. You have to have some type of leadership presence along that offensive line. It usually takes a captain a good portion of the year to settle in and feel comfortable in that vocal role, as a vocal leader. I don't see Dan Connolly as a vocal leader, and hopefully he'll settle into those captain shoes and be that aggressor/enforcer thatLogan Mankins was. He is a lead-by-example type of guy.

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http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...ngland-patriots-defense-difference?src=mobile

I think that there's a fundamental breakdown in leadership and toughness on this team right now, at both the player and coaching staff level. The sloppy fundamentals and glaring errors that we've seen on both sides of the ball are indicative of this. The problem is bigger and more fundamental than the OL, the WRs, the offensive and defensive schemes, and other such issues.

We've seen something like this before, a couple of times. In 2009 the problems led to an up-and-down 10-6 season, and early 1st round playoff drubbing, and a major overhaul in the offseason. But in 2011 back-to-back losses to Pittsburgh and the Giants along with a notable lack of effort led to Albert Haynesworth being cut and the team pulling together to make a SB run.

I think it's gut-check team for the team. They need to find out how much intestinal fortitude they have. Given the youth and the fundamental issues we've seen so far, it may not be enough. They could easily fall apart like in 2009. But if they can dig deep and pull together, then I think we could see something similar to 2011, where the team that emerges is significantly greater than the sum of its parts.

I'm not going to pay a lot of attention to the board for a bit, but I will be paying attention to the team to see how this plays out.

Rosters change so this may be slightly off now but at the start of the season the Patriots had the 8th youngest team in the league; if you took Brady off they would be the 3rd youngest. Again that's from the opening day rosters.

So, yes, Bill has a lot of work to do to get these guys playing as Patriots.

Lack of leadership on offense is noticeable. And I've noticed all year long about nobody helping Brady up off the ground. Hope that will change starting this week. Hell, Brady has at least gone out and tried to throw some blocks on run plays. But the offense needs more than just his leadership. So who else can do it? Someone on the offensive line? A WR? RB? Strange to say but what about Gronk? This is his fifth year with the team. He's been wildly successful here. I know he's a partier off the field but everyone has said that he works incredibly hard and is constantly putting time in at the gym. Just a thought since nobody else on offense really comes to mind that could step up.

And for the run defense, I believe you can always scheme to stop the run. The problem with that is usually you end up leaving yourself vulnerable in the passing game. This year they have Revis and now Browner coming back to help in that department. If those two can disrupt timing of the passing game, maybe the defense can hold up. I just don't want to see any more soft, passive defense. My feeling is if you're going to get gashed like this past Monday night, why not do it while trying to beat up the other team a bit?

Leadership is big and we are going to find out soon if this team has the guts to handle adversity. I agree with the poster above that this is a good time for Gronk to become more of a vocal leader. Also, it is time for Volmer & Solder to fix their problems and become leaders. Playing a competitive game Sunday night would be a step in the right direction.

Those are all good points but I feel like it's more of a case of a lack of talent and coaching. Which one of the receivers is going to be able to make the correct reads, get spearation AND make the catch? Gronk isn't getting separation right now and I'm not sure how long it will take him to get back to his old ways. Maybe a 2 more months? Dobson, KT and to a lesser extent Tim Wright REALLY need to step up.

The coaches need to figure out a good game plan and get everyone on the same page.

there's no magic scheme? huh I could have sworn mcdaniels was 100% of the problem and a good OC would have called plays that would somehow unleash a healthy Gronk, a great line, and bring Danny Phantomdola back to life.

1. Offensive Line
Call it lack of leadership or youth but it starts here and its not just the rookies that have struggled.

2. Front 7
They still don't have a great pass rush and if they give up huge chunks running then they are in serious trouble. Last year's defense settled down their run defense as the season went on but their lack of pass rush was always evident against good teams.

Just my opinion but if the above 2 areas improve just marginally, Brady, RB's, WR's and 3rd down defense will look much better.

mayoclinic said:

I've been avoiding the main board since Monday, trying to ignore the meltdown. Others have commented on most issues, from all perspectives. But as I see it, the Pats' rather sudden and dramatic drop this season comes down to a basic set of problems: too much youth, too little leadership, and too little mental toughness.

Tom Brady alluded to some of these issues today:

Click to expand...

mayoclinic said:

http://nesn.com/2014/10/tom-brady-patriots-need-mental-toughness-no-magic-play-to-snap-skid/

This team has gotten very young, very fast. There's a reasonable core of leadership on defense - Wilfork, Mayo, Ninkovich and McCourty have all been captains - but very little on offense outside of Brady. Logan Mankins' play had deteriorated significantly, but his toughness and leadership couldn't be questioned. The offense is extremely young.

There have been some clear warning signs about a lack of leadership on offense. People commented earlier this season on little things like Brady getting knocked down and none of his linemen picking him up. Tedy Bruschi commented earlier this season (before the Miami opener) that he was a bit surprised about Dan Connelly being named a captain, as he didn't see Connolly being the kind of tough, vocal leader that Mankins had been:



http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/page/bruschibreakdown-0904/bruschi-breakdown-new-england-patriots-defense-difference?src=mobile

I think that there's a fundamental breakdown in leadership and toughness on this team right now, at both the player and coaching staff level. The sloppy fundamentals and glaring errors that we've seen on both sides of the ball are indicative of this. The problem is bigger and more fundamental than the OL, the WRs, the offensive and defensive schemes, and other such issues.

We've seen something like this before, a couple of times. In 2009 the problems led to an up-and-down 10-6 season, and early 1st round playoff drubbing, and a major overhaul in the offseason. But in 2011 back-to-back losses to Pittsburgh and the Giants along with a notable lack of effort led to Albert Haynesworth being cut and the team pulling together to make a SB run.

I think it's gut-check team for the team. They need to find out how much intestinal fortitude they have. Given the youth and the fundamental issues we've seen so far, it may not be enough. They could easily fall apart like in 2009. But if they can dig deep and pull together, then I think we could see something similar to 2011, where the team that emerges is significantly greater than the sum of its parts.

I'm not going to pay a lot of attention to the board for a bit, but I will be paying attention to the team to see how this plays out.

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For the first 10 years of his tenure here, Belichick had a team that had a number of veteran players, over the past 3-4 seasons he has basically turned the team over and now is consists of all younger players. The problem is Belichick coaches them with the same philosophy as he used when coaching the veteran players in prior years. I do not think that is working, younger players are less established and their confidence is easily damaged.

Take Stevan Ridley for example, in 2012, he was given the keys to the car and he did a terrific job, then in the offseason instead of working to ensure Ridley builds on his success the Patriots traded for Blount. Ridley looked at that and said well I was not good enough in 2012, they want a bigger back, he bulked up to try and be Blount’s size, he had serious ball security issues as a result of trying to alter his body and running style and he regressed badly from 2012 to 2013. A player like Kevin Faulk who knows his place on the team can handle them bringing in a player who does the same things at the same level, a player such as Ridley cannot.

You know many posters talk about Keenan Allen, they compare him to the Dobson pick and say the Patriots made a poor decision, but that is so incomparable. The Chargers put Allen on the field no matter what, they rode or died with Allen, the Patriots from day 1 put Thompkins ahead of Dobson early in his rookie season, then went out and signed LaFell in the offseason and now Dobson has been inactive for 3 of 4 games. That is not going to make Dobson better, that is going to destroy his confidence.

Tavon Wilson had a solid rookie season playing around 50% of the defensive snaps, last season he played 17 defensive snaps. This season Harmon who had a solid rookie season last year is in the doghouse. Logan Ryan is benched for a UDFA rookie because he committed a penalty. That might teach Ty Law a lesson but it has a detrimental effect on a young player. Belichick has always said that the second season is the most important in the development of a player, are we giving are young talent a chance to develop though.

Marcus Cannon was given 3 games to learn a position he has never played before, 3 freaking games, so you are telling me in 3 weeks ago you felt confident enough in Cannon to trade Mankins and now you do not think so, only my 4-year-old changes his mind like that.

I truly believe this is fixable I think it is a simple shift in philosophy by Belichick to allow more room for error by young players. I do not think we are making bad draft picks, I just think we need to give them a chance.

Thanks, Mayo. I understand if you don't want to descend into the pit just at the moment, but your informed judgements are always welcome. Here in the spirit of tell-me-please-where-I'm-wrong are some thoughts of mine.

There's the bits we can see and the bits we can't. The latter have a lot to do with leadership and motivation. But they're not visible to me -- important though they clearly are.

And there's the bits that will prove to be fixable with coaching and there's the ones that won't.

My guesses about them.

Defense

Awful run defense and no pass rush on Monday night. The team gave up big plays to two excellent running backs, but the defenders often seemed to be on roller skates. Was there a problem with cleats? In any case, when the offense can't stay on the field it makes it so much harder for the defense. The absence of pass rush, however, was very disturbing. Too little imagination in the set-up of the D?

Guess: fixable

Offense

Got to start with the offensive line. Actually they didn't look too bad for the first few plays. Then things went downhill. The Fleming-Stork-Connolly combo didn't seem like a bad idea.

Guess: not fixable to play-off game winning standard

Receivers. Really disappointed with pretty much every receiver not named Edelman. Yes, LaFell and Gronkowski did good things with the ball in their hands. But the problem has been getting the ball into receivers' hands. I don't think that JE is so much more talented than the rest. Why has no one else shown up?

Guess. I'm just bewildered

Running game. I think I see what they were trying to do. One way to go if your OL is dubious is to put in an extra lineman and try a grind-it-out running game (Minnesota). Another is to put your QB in the shotgun, spread things out and try to use the open field for running. That was the idea. But (I'm sorry if I sound like a certain poster talking about a certain wide receiver) it didn't work because the RB they used plainly couldn't make the plays necessary. What would the game have been like if there had been a straight swap of Jamaal Charles for Shane Vereen?

Guess. Fixable if they concentrate on Ridley and his ball security holds up

Quarterback. The God's honest truth is that the greatest Patriot player of all time sucked on Monday. He made lousy decisions and threw terrible passes even when he wasn't forced to back pedal. Dismaying.

Guess. No idea

Froob said:

there's no magic scheme? huh I could have sworn mcdaniels was 100% of the problem and a good OC would have called plays that would somehow unleash a healthy Gronk, a great line, and bring Danny Phantomdola back to life.

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So dressing 5 RB and a FB and three TE (although one is really a TE by name only), against a team that was a bad pass rushing team and dressing 3 receivers, then coming out of the gate with 13 passes and 5 runs, with a 3 and out to start the game.

Brady6 said:

I do not think we are making bad draft picks, I just think we need to give them a chance.

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I agree that it will take patience and prolonged development time for young players. There may need to be a stronger core of veteran leadership than currently exists, particularly on offense.

makoute said:

So dressing 5 RB and a FB and three TE (although one is really a TE by name only), against a team that was a bad pass rushing team and dressing 3 receivers, then coming out of the gate with 13 passes and 5 runs, with a 3 and out to start the game.

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im just saying you cant put all the blame on mcdaniels. KT and dobson aren't playing for some unknown reasons and our runnjng game went nowhere vs a terrible raiders team. not saying McDaniels is perfect by any means far from it, but how can people really give him a real grade with the crap hes given? lafell was the only real pass catcher monday.

Brady6 said:

For the first 10 years of his tenure here, Belichick had a team that had a number of veteran players, over the past 3-4 seasons he has basically turned the team over and now is consists of all younger players. The problem is Belichick coaches them with the same philosophy as he used when coaching the veteran players in prior years. I do not think that is working, younger players are less established and their confidence is easily damaged.

Take Stevan Ridley for example, in 2012, he was given the keys to the car and he did a terrific job, then in the offseason instead of working to ensure Ridley builds on his success the Patriots traded for Blount. Ridley looked at that and said well I was not good enough in 2012, they want a bigger back, he bulked up to try and be Blount’s size, he had serious ball security issues as a result of trying to alter his body and running style and he regressed badly from 2012 to 2013. A player like Kevin Faulk who knows his place on the team can handle them bringing in a player who does the same things at the same level, a player such as Ridley cannot.

You know many posters talk about Keenan Allen, they compare him to the Dobson pick and say the Patriots made a poor decision, but that is so incomparable. The Chargers put Allen on the field no matter what, they rode or died with Allen, the Patriots from day 1 put Thompkins ahead of Dobson early in his rookie season, then went out and signed LaFell in the offseason and now Dobson has been inactive for 3 of 4 games. That is not going to make Dobson better, that is going to destroy his confidence.

Tavon Wilson had a solid rookie season playing around 50% of the defensive snaps, last season he played 17 defensive snaps. This season Harmon who had a solid rookie season last year is in the doghouse. Logan Ryan is benched for a UDFA rookie because he committed a penalty. That might teach Ty Law a lesson but it has a detrimental effect on a young player. Belichick has always said that the second season is the most important in the development of a player, are we giving are young talent a chance to develop though.

Marcus Cannon was given 3 games to learn a position he has never played before, 3 freaking games, so you are telling me in 3 weeks ago you felt confident enough in Cannon to trade Mankins and now you do not think so, only my 4-year-old changes his mind like that.

I truly believe this is fixable I think it is a simple shift in philosophy by Belichick to allow more room for error by young players. I do not think we are making bad draft picks, I just think we need to give them a chance.

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There is a healthy dose of speculation in many of your premises here, and some of them seem completely baseless to me.

Ridley got bigger and changed his running style and that's why he started fumbling? That's the first I heard this. Did you make this up?

The Chargers could afford to put Allen on the field. They had a simple role for him. The Pats don't have that for Dobson, but he got out there when he was healthy. I would not assume that he was a truly healthy scratch last week. I just think he needed more healthy practice time to sharpen-up his routes. I fully expect to see him this week. After that, we can evaluate whether the Pats are sticking with him or not, but it seems to me like he has gotten plenty of chances when healthy thus far.

I've long agreed with you that Tavon Wilson didn't seem to get much of a chance last year. However, this year, it looks to my eyes that Harmon has been out-competed by Wilson and Chung. You don't stick with an inferior player, especially if he is not blessed with exceptional physical talent just waiting to be unleashed. I don't know what happened with Ryan, whether he said something out-of-turn that suggested he was not taking the coaching at the time or whether he was punished for the infraction itself because it was some sort of point-of-emphasis in practice. We don't have that much to base any judgment of BB. By the second half, it didn't seem unreasonable for BB to see what he had in Butler, given that a cut in the secondary will likely happen this week. Butler was competitive. I see no harm there. As for Ty Law learning a lesson from being benched: Huh?

As for Cannon, BB needs to find an OL that works. Devey and, to a lesser extent, Cannon let the franshise get pummeled for the better part of 3 weeks. Sticking it out was not an option. Speculating that BB is as fickle as a 4-year old is fanciful, at best.

Even your main point that the Pats need to change their philosophy to suffer growing pains with young players on a 2-2 team that is struggling to function while competing for a division title suffers from a questionable assumption. The Pats current philosophy seems very much based on struggling with young players' growing pains. That doesn't mean that all of them need to be put in positions to learn from their mistakes in live action, when the fate of the team is at stake. They should be doing that in practice. The fact that so many young players are making mistakes on the field suggests that the philosophy of suffering through young players growing pains is exactly what BB is doing, perhaps to excess. Whether it is happening to excess is something we will see verified in the coming weeks.

pencilneckgeek said:

The Chargers could afford to put Allen on the field. They had a simple role for him.

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Maybe its time we start questioning the complexity of the E-P offense, and whether its a good fit given our personnel.

I have been on self-imposed exile for a couple of years now. I am actively trying to watch less of the NFL, but just as big a factor is some of the horrendously negative posters here who can never seem to be happy unless they are unhappy and want to make everyone else miserable to. We are fans, short for fanatics, I think that implies that we should be looking, or at least hoping, for success from the guys wearing the laundry, and the negativity wears on me. None moreso than the self declared draft experts who live to criticize any pick that BB makes when their own binkie does well, or someone who we passed on excels. There was a lot discontent when BB reached for Vollmer, but silence when it turned out to be a good pick, yet we constantly hear about Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon. Whether these turned out to be good picks or not, you do NOT know more than the professionals do. Say your piece, but then give it a rest and move on!



The people on this site and others who do a lot of draft research and are some of the most knowledgeable posters are able to get over when the Pats ignore their binkies or a particular player doesn’t work out optimally, but they are able to get over it and move on. That is part of what makes them such good posters. It isn’t all about them and they know it.



Hopefully, the “Negative Nancies” , resident trolls, and bandwagon fans will head to the exits and make this place and others more enjoyable for real fans, and that would be one benefit of a downturn from the Pats, but regardless, I wanted to offer my observations of the game and team and then it’s back to exile.



As someone already mentioned one cause of this disaster was a perfect storm of factors, and I think that really is true. I also thought it was telling that there was discussion of pregame discussion on ESPN that some teams seem content to be just good enough to make the playoffs and keep the revenues coming in. I was surprised to hear them suggest that the Pats were one of these teams as they have been consistently competitive longer than any other team. Did they get tipped off that something was up? Then after the game the talking heads carried on that same criticism and seemed gleeful about the Pats’ demise. I have felt ESPN despised the Pats and their long-lasting success for a long time so their glee is no surprise, I just think it is interesting that they seemed to know that something was amiss and this disaster wasn’t a surprise to them.



OK on to the game.



There has been a lot of criticism of Tom Brady lately and there is a lot of justification for it. Tom has been one of the greatest QBs of all time and that is not in dispute, but there comes an end for everyone and we are seeing the signs of it for Tom. I don’t know when that end is but it is easy now to see that it may not be far off.



I am not saying that TB is finished, but I think he needs to take a look at himself in the mirror and honestly evaluate himself, because there is a lot of blame that falls on him.



The benefit from a disaster like this one is that it is more likely to force needed change than another mediocre win would have.



TB’s skills have eroded, that is undeniable; father time ignores no one, but he still has the skills to be successful as his mind and experience can make up for what he has lost physically.



I think he needs to be honest with himself and decide if he is willing to do what is necessary to win. He is older, has a Super model wife, and more money than he could ever hope to spend, but given that “What have you done for us lately”? Certainly his more recent playoff performances have been wanting compared to the young hungry TB. What you have earned and what you have accomplished mean nothing going forward if you are no longer willing to do what got you there. The fact that he chose not to run to pick up a first down that was there for the taking and instead throwing a poor pass is a great example. The younger TB would have run for the first, but the current one did not. Why not? Fear of injury? Reluctance to take the hit? Certainly it wasn’t because there was a wide open receiver making the throw a superior choice.



Tom if you want to retire and enjoy the fruits of your accomplishments then I don’t think anyone would begrudge you that, but if you still want to be a QB and go to Superbowls then you need to do what Superbowl QBs do.



Back when the Brady/Bledsoe debates were going on one of the arguments in favor of Brady was that he was able to be successful with the same cast that Bledsoe was unable to be successful with. It was a good argument and is just as good argument now when we see that Garapolo was able to score with the same players that Brady couldn’t. Now it is an extremely small sample size, and it was in garbage time, but it was the same garbage time that Brady had just thrown a horrible interception into.



There has been discussion about Brady’s over-dependence on Edelman and Gronk; did anyone notice that while Garapolo was in the game so was Edelman, but Garapolo didn’t throw to him once? Garapolo didn’t seem to have a hard time finding other receivers.



So Garapolo was able to be successful with the same players that Brady was not, and THAT is on Brady.



It seems so long ago that Brady’s favorite receiver was the open guy, but that hasn’t been the case in a long time. Once the Pats got Randy Moss, that guy seemingly disappeared forever. If Tom can no longer do that, or is not willing to do that, then it won’t be long before Brady gets replaced by Garapolo, because BB sees it too, and he is NOT the sentimental type.



On a side note I haven’t seen any mention of one thing I noticed, and it may well be nothing, but after Brady got replaced a sidelines shot showed Matt Slater sitting next to Brady and saying something and I clearly read Tom’s lips mouthing “Shut up!” I don’t know if it is significant at all, but just an interesting observation.



So this is the first game that we played without Sealver Siliga and we couldn’t stop the run. Significant? Probably, but that certainly doesn’t explain the total lack of inability to stop the run.



You always hate to make excuses and it likely wouldn’t have changed the result, but the Pats slipping was really noticeable. On a third and long Ninkovich was in position to stop a play for no, or little, gain, but he slipped and the runner went for a first down. This is something that shouldn’t be an issue going forward.



The refs really did hand 3 points to the Chiefs before the end if the half. That brush of the facemask by Ryan should not be called. That was ticky tack.



The coaches really do have some soul searching to do. None more so than Matt Patricia. That was a horrendous game plan. I am not the first to point this out, but this read and react is getting frustrating when we have the capability to play more physical and play a more aggressive defense. Revis excels at man to man and he won’t stick around for another season being used like this.



The New Orleans Saints are really hurting at CB. With Browner back this week and us needing to open a roster spot. I wonder how high a pick we could get from the Saints for Alfonso Dennard?



So maybe Stork was tipping the timing of his snaps leading to the strip sack. That is correctable, and doesn’t negate the fact that Hali was offsides and should have been called for it.

On the bright side, with three of the first four games on the road, if the Pats get their act together they have a home field advantage in the remaining schedule.

Gronkandez said:

Those are all good points but I feel like it's more of a case of a lack of talent and coaching...

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Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I think our problems are 99% coaching

We can't lament on the loss any longer. All the problems the pats have will be solved with a statement win on Sunday Night Football. #ontocincinatti.

Gronkandez said:

Those are all good points but I feel like it's more of a case of a lack of talent and coaching.

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I think there's plenty of talent. It's a matter of getting maximum effort from every one, and getting them on the same page, with the team coming first.

Ted Johnson recently brought up the "leadership" issue, and raised parallels to 2009. Recent reports of Aaron Dobson being benched because of verbal altercations with the coaching staff also recalls some of the toxic locker room issues of that year.

“The Patriots, they go out and they get free agents every year, stars, guys that were stars on other teams. Darrelle Revis comes in this year, Brandon Browner. And it’s key, it’s imperative for these big-name free agents they do bring in that they buy in to whatever it is they’re doing there,” Johnson said.

“A lot of these guys that were stars from other teams that come here as free agents, they had expanded roles. They were that guy on those teams. And when you come to New England you realize there’s more of a role for you, it’s more situational, they use you maybe different ways than your team before. And sometimes for those guys it’s hard to buy in. I’m thinking of guys like Adalius Thomas on the Pats, Chad Johnson to a certain extent, Randy Moss in ’07 was phenomenal but later in his career he wasn’t buying into it anymore.

“You really need those guys to buy in. Danny Amendola, what’s going on with him? Has he bought in? I don’t know why they’re not going to him.”

Added Johnson: “You have to kind of go there with the understanding that it truly is about winning. I mean, it really is. Guys like Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi to an extent, me to an extent, I think we took less than market-value contracts or pay cuts because at the end of the day for guys like us it was important that we won football games. That was the No. 1 thing for us. These guys come in, they have to buy in right away.

“And I do think there is — not on the defensive side of the ball, I think Jerod Mayo and Vince [Wilfork], they’ve got that thing buttoned up on that defensive side of the ball — but from an offensive standpoint, as far as leadership goes, who are the leaders? Besides Tom, who else is there on that side of the ball to stand up?

“I’m reading that Aaron Dobson’s kind of getting in a verbal spat with Josh McDaniels. Well, who goes to Aaron Dobson? Who goes to him and says, ‘Hey, man, what are you doing? Knock that stuff off. That’s not the right way to go about it?’ ”

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http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...ship-newer-players-have-to-buy-in-right-away/

PATS16N0 said:

I think our problems are 99% coaching

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That would make sense if they put on the Uniform.. but somewhere along the line players gotta play.