BELICHICK IS TO BLAME.

heh...hey SF...is it that you do not like Rutgers or you think I'm a fan of Rutgers?

I'd post a Stanford logo if we drafted a quarter of our squad from them...

ATippett56 said:

Josh is to blame? Ridiculous! You're trying really hard to find a scapegoat.

Bill Belichick is to blame for ignoring the interior of the offensive line thru the NFL Draft from 2008 to 2013 with QUALITY picks:

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...os=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

Meanwhile Bill Belichick pissed away draft picks on busts such Wheatley, Crable, O'Connell, Wilhite, Brace, Butler, Tate, McKenzie, Cunningham, Price, Dowling, Mallett, Wilson, Bequette.

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Bingo........

ATippett56 said:

Josh is to blame? Ridiculous! You're trying really hard to find a scapegoat.

Bill Belichick is to blame for ignoring the interior of the offensive line thru the NFL Draft from 2008 to 2013 with QUALITY picks:

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...os=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

Meanwhile Bill Belichick pissed away draft picks on busts such Wheatley, Crable, O'Connell, Wilhite, Brace, Butler, Tate, McKenzie, Cunningham, Price, Dowling, Mallett, Wilson, Bequette.

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The great draft disparity:

With an 18-1 record, 2007 is obviously the high water mark of the Belichick era. So, let's start there, and take a look at the draft disparity, by comparing high round defensive picks to the non-QB high round offensive picks. I'll list them in totality, starting with the lower rounds and working up:

Defense

3rd rounders
Crable
McKenzie
Bequette
Harmon
Ryan

2nd rounders
Wheatley
Butler
Brace
Chung
Spikes
Cunningham
Dowling
Wilson
Collins

1st rounders
Meriweather
Mayo
McCourty
Hightower
Jones
Easley


Offense

3rd rounders
Tate
Price
Ridley

2nd rounders
Vollmer
Gronkowski
Vereen
Dobson

1st rounders
Solder

So, beginning with the year that was the high water mark, the Patriots have devoted 20 draft picks to the defense in rounds 1-3, but only 8 non QB draft picks on the defense in those same rounds.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/team-round/patriots


P.S. My apologies if I missed any player(s) when I listed them.

Deus Irae said:

The great draft disparity:

With an 18-1 record, 2007 is obviously the high water mark of the Belichick era. So, let's start there, and take a look at the draft disparity, by comparing high round defensive picks to the non-QB high round offensive picks. I'll list them in totality, starting with the lower rounds and working up:

Defense

3rd rounders
Crable
McKenzie
Bequette
Harmon
Ryan

2nd rounders
Wheatley
Butler
Brace
Chung
Spikes
Cunningham
Dowling
Wilson
Collins

1st rounders
Meriweather
Mayo
McCourty
Hightower
Jones
Easley


Offense

3rd rounders
Tate
Price
Ridley

2nd rounders
Vollmer
Gronkowski
Vereen
Dobson

1st rounders
Solder

So, beginning with the year that was the high water mark, the Patriots have devoted 20 draft picks to the defense in rounds 1-3, but only 8 non QB draft picks on the defense in those same rounds.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/team-round/patriots


P.S. My apologies if I missed any player(s) when I listed them.

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OK, we are ignoring for the moment the quality of picks.

To be clear, you would have like more balance between offensive and defensive top picks. I'm not sure that I agree. Our OT's, TE, RB's and one WR are all top picks. Sure, I would prefer one more WR. I think that the failure is that the team has failed many times to fill a top WR spot in free agency. Amendola is the latest failure.

Would we really be having this discussion if Amendola had worked out?

I don't have a problem with filling interior line positions with 4th rounders. Of course, the problem is that Belichick waited an extra year, and didn't sign a backup veteran in free agency, as he has done almost every year. I suppose the vet was Wendell. For me, the problem was in player evaluation. By what stretch of the imagination did we not need a veteran, when Belichick was clearly listening to trades for Mankins?

BOTTOM LINE
Belichick is a year late. Stork and Fleming need to start now, instead of getting some time. The good news is that they may be ready. And yes, if Mankins were here, both Connolly and Wendell could be backups. Even as it is, Stork and Fleming may develop enough for our OL to be as good as last year (the line that had us #10 is rushing and #5 in total offense.

mgteich said:

To be clear, you would have like more balance between offensive and defensive top picks.

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Not necessarily, although I've mentioned that as one potential solution. In this case, I was just doing the leg work in response to another poster's discussion of the picks. The numbers should be eye opening for everyone.

mgteich said:

I'm not sure that I agree. Our OT's, TE, RB's and one WR are all top picks. Sure, I would prefer one more WR. I think that the failure is that the team has failed many times to fill a top WR spot in free agency. Amendola is the latest failure.

Would we really be having this discussion if Amendola had worked out?

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Yes, probably because the problems go deeper than one failed free agent signing.

mgteich said:

I don't have a problem with filling interior line positions with 4th rounders. Of course, the problem is that Belichick waited an extra year, and didn't sign a backup veteran in free agency, as he has done almost every year. I suppose the vet was Wendell. For me, the problem was in player evaluation. By what stretch of the imagination did we not need a veteran, when Belichick was clearly listening to trades for Mankins?

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When you stock a position with low round picks, you will get low round talent, as a rule.

mgteich said:

BOTTOM LINE
Belichick is a year late. Stork and Fleming need to start now, instead of getting some time. The good news is that they may be ready. And yes, if Mankins were here, both Connolly and Wendell could be backups. Even as it is, Stork and Fleming may develop enough for our OL to be as good as last year (the line that had us #10 is rushing and #5 in total offense.

Click to expand...

Belichick is more than a year late, and the issue goes deeper than just a drafting disparity. Belichick has made a lot of terrible decisions in the post-2007 era, and he's always had Brady around to bail him out. Now, with the bad decisions (and injuries) leaving the offense about as bereft of talent as it's been since Belichick's arrival, the chickens have come home to roost, and Brady has not been able to bail him out this time around, at least up until now.

The Patriots 'always' get better as the year goes on. The question this year, for the first time in a long, long time, is whether or not that will be enough.


P.S. If you watched the game on Monday, you know that Stork and Fleming weren't ready.

Deus Irae said:

P.S. If you watched the game on Monday, you know that Stork and Fleming weren't ready.

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Yeah, I'm surprised to see some of the responses that state the adequate play of Stork/Fleming. As @SVN pointed out, they were in max protect at times with only 2/3 receiving options against a nickle and dime package.

I am no expert by any means on OL play, actually nothing even remotely close--but I certainly did not come away feeling that Fleming did anything that much different.

Personally, I have more confidence and hope in Stork's potential this year than Fleming, but we'll have to see.

BB is easily having one of his worst coaching years of his career

Deus Irae said:

P.S. If you watched the game on Monday, you know that Stork and Fleming weren't ready.

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Agreed, but more ready than playing Cannon and Devey at LG and RG. I hope that they will be ready by the time of the bye, when we will likely be 4-5 or 5-4.

One does have to ponder why BB has drafted only one OL (Solder) yet two QBs (Jimmy G and Mallett) in the first three rounds of the last five drafts.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/96346/patriots-offense-going-downhill

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/96346/patriots-offense-going-downhill

Brady has completed 73.5 percent of his passes to Julian Edelman this season, but only 47.5 percent of his attempts to the rest of the Patriots wide receivers.

Inconsistency in the receiving corps has likely played a factor in that, as no receiver outside of Edelman has been on field for a bulk of the team’s snaps.

The pre-season trade of guard Logan Mankins may be looking like a big mistake too. Brady has been pressured on 26 percent of his dropbacks, which would be the highest since that data became available in 2009.

He’s also been sacked on 6.2 percent of his dropbacks, which would be his highest since 2001. This had led to three lost fumbles for Brady, same as he had in the previous two seasons combined.

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Seanzayyy said:

One does have to ponder why BB has drafted only one OL (Solder) yet two QBs (Jimmy G and Mallett) in the first three rounds of the last five drafts.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/96346/patriots-offense-going-downhill

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Common sense, Mallett was a higher risk QB who fell because of "off field issues", and provided a back up qb who became well versed in this system, we will never know if he was adequate or not.

Garrapolo was the first attempt to begin to find a replacement for Brady, and if he was not what they expected they would probably do the same thing again.. they had a couple of years to get this right, so they chose him sooner rather than later.

You forgot 2nd round pick Volmer, who they drafted in 2009.... in the past they have had success in finding adequate OL folks, perhaps it was due to Scar or maybe they were gifted; Stephen Neal, Joe Andruzzi, Danm Koppen to name a few. It seems that the philosophy of this team was that they could draft a middle rounder or sign an underperforming player and "coach them up"...

Brady_to_Moss said:

BB is easily having one of his worst coaching years of his career

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Absotively and Posolutely! The Pats are 2-2 tied for the AFCE lead. What a terrible coaching job amidst rebuilding the offensive line. Duh...

AzPatsFan said:

Absotively and Posolutely! The Pats are 2-2 tied for the AFCE lead. What a terrible coaching job amidst rebuilding the offensive line. Duh...

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lets see, last year by this time our defense was missing vince wilfork, jerod mayo, rob gronkowski and were able to go 4-0 playing behind an OL which was just as bad with 2 rookie receivers starting(whom somehow this year have been benched)

this year, we have all those players back on defense...replaced talib with revis(which should be an upgrade) and we are worse....

that isn't on the players, that is on the coaching and the scheme. the coaching staff has finally gotten ahead of themselves. thinking they are smarter than they really are with these rediculous schemes thinking they can fit a square peg into a round hole, or playing with the personnel groupings, leaving 2 of our best WR's last year inactive every game so we can get in 5RB's

Belicheck used to be able to get the best out of the talent he had. this year so far, he's been making some questionable decisions. and thus why they are 2-2.

Miguel said:

May I refer you to

http://overthecap.com/player/peyton-manning/1

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Sure......after 5 years of no winning record, they had a roster that was easy to purge

They now have 7 starters on their rookie deals.....2 of them will be looking at 10M per.....others will be looking at big paydays.... The only one to cut to save is clady

So after sucking for years, they're good for a few....they will then suck again

Great concept

IllegalContact said:

They now have 7 starters on their rookie deals.....2 of them will be looking at 10M per.....others will be looking at big paydays.

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Patriots also have 7 starters on rookies deals. I guess none of them will be looking for big paydays.

The most disappointing thing for me is how soft we play on defense. I thought this year we would be more attacking and agressive

Miguel said:

Patriots also have 7 starters on rookies deals. I guess none of them will be looking for big paydays.

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this year?

supafly said:

There's a reason why Mayo was a top 10 overall draft pick.

I'm not saying that I don't miss the physicality that Spikes brought, but I think you're overrating his skills a bit by comparing him to Jerod Mayo.

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Mayo has sleepless nights right now as his baby was born. I personally don't believe that private life of these athletes don't affect their job. As good pro as his is it's impossible to have his heart not divided between team and family right now.

IllegalContact said:

this year?

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No. Then again, I do not think that the Broncos have 7 starters on rookie deals who will become UFAs after this season.