My Blueprint for the Offense

mayoclinic · Sep 26, 2014

I would have gladly taken Julio Jones in the 1st round, BTW. He was probably my top rated WR prospect ever. But he was long gone at #6, and like BB I wouldn't have mortgaged a king's ransom to trade up for him. I wouldn't have payed a ton to trade up for JJ Watt in 2011, either - a small trade up would have been doable (I actually had Cameron Jordan rated higher in 2011, the more fool I), but it wasn't at all clear that Watt would become the beast that he is, or everyone would have taken him much sooner than #11. Hindsight is 20-20.

If the Pats should somehow implode this year and end up with a top 10 pick (doubtful), I'd probably go after Brandon Scherff, +/- a trade down depending on his draft stock at the time. If Amari Cooper were still on the board and BB felt he was the best value, I certainly wouldn't scream about it. The kid looks like a "franchise WR", though no prospect is can't-miss. But it would be hard to use him very effectively if Brady is on his back well before Cooper can get downfield.

More realistically, I could live with a 2015 draft that had Kevin White in the 1st (assuming White continues to develop; he's already being touted as a potential 1st round pick) and OL/DL after that, though it probably wouldn't be my preference.

patsfaninpa · Sep 29, 2014

mayoclinic said:
I hate it when I see mocks suggesting a WR in the 1st round. What a waste. Not a position I would waste a premium pick on.

Still feeling that way?

mayoclinic · Sep 29, 2014

patsfaninpa said:
Still feeling that way?

Yes.

captain stone · Sep 30, 2014

What about Left Tackle?

patsfaninpa · Sep 30, 2014

mayoclinic said:
Yes.

I guess we'll find those explosive athletes at wr and rb in the 3rd/4th round. Like we always do

patsfaninpa · Sep 30, 2014

captain stone said:
What about Left Tackle?

H's played very well at times in 2012 and 2013. I think he's salvageable. Playing lousy for sure. N ot sure why.

manxman2601 · Sep 30, 2014

captain stone said:
What about Left Tackle?

Does anyone have any thoughts on Michael Roos? Is he possible as a FA pickup?

patsfaninpa said:
H's played very well at times in 2012 and 2013. I think he's salvageable. Playing lousy for sure. N ot sure why.

I hope you are right but I worry when people regress.

manxman2601 · Sep 30, 2014

patsfaninpa said:
I guess we'll find those explosive athletes at wr and rb in the 3rd/4th round. Like we always do

Here's the thing though, it's hard to question the explosively of the likes of Dobson, Boyce and Vereen. It's not their athletic prowess that is letting them down. In fact, I think the problem lies in the other direction - they were athletically gifted but perhaps weren't so complete in terms of the skillets required for the position. Give me the less athletically gifted Alshon Jeffrey*, Keenan Allen and Marvin Jones every day.

* Although, and I never realised this, Alshon Jeffrey ran a 6.71 3-cone at his pro day which is surprising for a guy of his size.

patsfaninpa · Sep 30, 2014

manxman2601 said:
Here's the thing though, it's hard to question the explosively of the likes of Dobson, Boyce and Vereen. It's not their athletic prowess that is letting them down. In fact, I think the problem lies in the other direction - they were athletically gifted but perhaps weren't so complete in terms of the skillets required for the position. Give me the less athletically gifted Alshon Jeffrey*, Keenan Allen and Marvin Jones every day.

* Although, and I never realised this, Alshon Jeffrey ran a 6.71 3-cone at his pro day which is surprising for a guy of his size.

patsfaninpa · Sep 30, 2014

When I saw Jeffrey torch Alabama in 2010, I didn't need to know his forty and three-cone to know he was a player. He put weight on in 2011 and that caused his stock to drop.

manxman2601 · Sep 30, 2014

OK, let's think about the offense.

1. Whilst Brady clearly has the ability to play longer, the decline is clearly there to be seen. I'm not going to be knee-jerk and demand an immediate transition but whether it's next year or the year after, there has to be a firm roadmap for starting Jimmy G.

2. If you look at our receivers moving forward, I think there's a case to be made for pencilling in Lafell alongside Gronk and Edelman. Label might not be a game-breaker but he offers some move TE options. And this leads to an interesting question. If the Patriots were looking at Lafell in that role anyway (which they presumably were, why go after Tim Wright who plays an almost identical role?)

3.I've always been hopeful but I'm willing to move on from Vereen who just doesn't look to be able to offer that dual threat. I'm all in on Abdullah for that role and I think he'll end up being an upgrade on Vereen anyways.

4. Mentioned it already and it's little more than tentative speculation but is Michael Roos a possibility for LT? Solder has been poor so far this year and if he doesn't progress, I neither want him protecting my ageing vet or my developing prospect. I could get behind Roos-Solder on the left hand side of my OL or maybe even trading Solder for a 2nd or 3rd (too hopeful?)

5. If the best player on the board is a defensive player then I'm fine with a defensive pick but more nd more, I think we need to focus on offense with this draft, and I'm sorry Mayo, but I think we need to consider skill position players in the first round.

6. Speaking of which, with the Bengals coming to town next week, a 2-3 record is quite likely and with five game mid-season stretch of Broncos-Lions-Colts-Packers-Chargers one has to wonder whether looking at mid-first draft options is something that needs to be considered. Gurley, Amari Cooper, Scherff and Funchess might all be possibilities.

7. Always been a fan of Mark Ingram and I think he'd be a good counterpunch to Abdullah. Ingram-Abdullah-White-A.N. Other is a potentially strong RB rotation.

I don't want to be all gloom and despair because I still think there's a corner that might be turned offensively. But I do think that is becoming less likely and that the discussion on this board needs to gravitate towards offense rather than D.

Bright side, it opens up more interesting draft discussions if we end up picking mid-round and that will be interesting.

manxman2601 · Sep 30, 2014

patsfaninpa said:
When I saw Jeffrey torch Alabama in 2010, I didn't need to know his forty and three-cone to know he was a player. He put weight on in 2011 and that caused his stock to drop.

That's my point. I feel the same about Marvin Jones. The skill set is a better determinant of future NFL ability than the athleticism (BB looks at it the other way round). Now, to be fair, there is a cut off point. At some stage you're probably not going to be NFL able if you don't have decent speed etc, no matter how good you are at running routes or catching balls (unless your name is Jerry Rice).

Luxusdk · Sep 30, 2014

manxman2601 said:
OK, let's think about the offense.

1. Whilst Brady clearly has the ability to play longer, the decline is clearly there to be seen. I'm not going to be knee-jerk and demand an immediate transition but whether it's next year or the year after, there has to be a firm roadmap for starting Jimmy G.

2. If you look at our receivers moving forward, I think there's a case to be made for pencilling in Lafell alongside Gronk and Edelman. Label might not be a game-breaker but he offers some move TE options. And this leads to an interesting question. If the Patriots were looking at Lafell in that role anyway (which they presumably were, why go after Tim Wright who plays an almost identical role?)

3.I've always been hopeful but I'm willing to move on from Vereen who just doesn't look to be able to offer that dual threat. I'm all in on Abdullah for that role and I think he'll end up being an upgrade on Vereen anyways.

4. Mentioned it already and it's little more than tentative speculation but is Michael Roos a possibility for LT? Solder has been poor so far this year and if he doesn't progress, I neither want him protecting my ageing vet or my developing prospect. I could get behind Roos-Solder on the left hand side of my OL or maybe even trading Solder for a 2nd or 3rd (too hopeful?)

5. If the best player on the board is a defensive player then I'm fine with a defensive pick but more nd more, I think we need to focus on offense with this draft, and I'm sorry Mayo, but I think we need to consider skill position players in the first round.

6. Speaking of which, with the Bengals coming to town next week, a 2-3 record is quite likely and with five game mid-season stretch of Broncos-Lions-Colts-Packers-Chargers one has to wonder whether looking at mid-first draft options is something that needs to be considered. Gurley, Amari Cooper, Scherff and Funchess might all be possibilities.

Lots in this great post Manx. Im starting to beleave this is the last year with Brady, and im also looking at Patriots at 8-8 tops. So the bigger question should be, do Patriots change regime also and use a year or 2 on rebuilding for the furture?.

1: Yes, JAG should get more time so hes ready NeXT year. OR they know they need another QB.
2: Hard to tell what you have in the other boys, but at some point they have to play Dobson and KT.
3: I think both Ridley and Vereen are gone NeXT year and right now Gurley is my best bet in round 1.
4: I think a better LG would do better for Solder, he aint great this year, but WHO is?
5: What position on D should help this team more then a real offensiv weapon? The first 5-6 drives was punt!!
6: We have lost 2 now, and adding 6-8 Loose more is not out of the question, so the real question is more how many wins should we get more?

I don't want to be all gloom and despair because I still think there's a corner that might be turned offensively. But I do think that is becoming less likely and that the discussion on this board needs to gravitate towards offense rather than D.

Bright side, it opens up more interesting draft discussions if we end up picking mid-round and that will be interesting.

manxman2601 · Sep 30, 2014

I will say this though, despite my exhortations for an offensive minded draft. The DL possibilities in this draft in the first round are very very interesting. Mario Edwards, Shilique Calhoun, Shawn Oakman, Dante Fowler, Shane Ray and potentially more are all very reasonable alternatives to an offensive pick. I am by no means locked into that path.

patsfaninpa · Sep 30, 2014

manxman2601 said:
I will say this though, despite my exhortations for an offensive minded draft. The DL possibilities in this draft in the first round are very very interesting. Mario Edwards, Shilique Calhoun, Shawn Oakman, Dante Fowler, Shane Ray and potentially more are all very reasonable alternatives to an offensive pick. I am by no means locked into that path.

It appears that's a great area in this draft. And, you never turn down a good de prospect. My gripe has been that since we cut Moss a couple of games into the 2010 season, wr was a need entering the; 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 draft. There was a plethora of players to choose from. We whiffed. Kind of mind-boggling.

Marinlik · Sep 30, 2014

I'd be interested in taking Abdullah if he is there when we pick in the second round. I think he would be a much better Vereen. I'm not a huge fan of Vereen, and always thought that he is severely overrated by fans. He's fast and if he's uncovered on a swing then he is gone. But that's about it. When it comes to contact he isn't getting it done. I want us to have a shifty RB and I think Abdullah can be that guy that can both run and catch. But if Gurley is available where we pick in the first I'm all in for grabbing him. But it depends on what else is available. As it looks now we will need a new LT.

mayoclinic · Sep 30, 2014

manxman2601 said:
I will say this though, despite my exhortations for an offensive minded draft. The DL possibilities in this draft in the first round are very very interesting. Mario Edwards, Shilique Calhoun, Shawn Oakman, Dante Fowler, Shane Ray and potentially more are all very reasonable alternatives to an offensive pick. I am by no means locked into that path.

The way I look at it right now is this: if the Pats don't fix their offensive problems, particularly the OL, then there's a good chance we'll be looking at our first top-20 (and possibly higher) pick since 2011. That would put us in for a stud OL, and fixing the OL will be the top priority. Brandon Scherff would be a tremendous option at either tackle or guard if he is within range. La'el Collins, Andrus Peat and others might be within reach. I'd be quite content to take an OL in the mid-first and a RB/WR with a top-50 pick in the second if that scenario plays out.

OTOH, if the Pats end up picking in the late 20's or later as we generally do, it will mean that the team managed to sort out the majority of the most pressing issues, in which case we could go in any number of directions.

There are major problems, but it's far too early to tell how it will all sort out. In general, though, I am still in favor of building around the lines. The common theme of almost every critical loss that I can think of has been that the Pats were outmatched by a more physical team at the LOS, usually on both sides of the ball.

mayoclinic · Sep 30, 2014

manxman2601 said:
OK, let's think about the offense.

1. Whilst Brady clearly has the ability to play longer, the decline is clearly there to be seen. I'm not going to be knee-jerk and demand an immediate transition but whether it's next year or the year after, there has to be a firm roadmap for starting Jimmy G.

2. If you look at our receivers moving forward, I think there's a case to be made for pencilling in Lafell alongside Gronk and Edelman. Label might not be a game-breaker but he offers some move TE options. And this leads to an interesting question. If the Patriots were looking at Lafell in that role anyway (which they presumably were, why go after Tim Wright who plays an almost identical role?)

3.I've always been hopeful but I'm willing to move on from Vereen who just doesn't look to be able to offer that dual threat. I'm all in on Abdullah for that role and I think he'll end up being an upgrade on Vereen anyways.

4. Mentioned it already and it's little more than tentative speculation but is Michael Roos a possibility for LT? Solder has been poor so far this year and if he doesn't progress, I neither want him protecting my ageing vet or my developing prospect. I could get behind Roos-Solder on the left hand side of my OL or maybe even trading Solder for a 2nd or 3rd (too hopeful?)

5. If the best player on the board is a defensive player then I'm fine with a defensive pick but more nd more, I think we need to focus on offense with this draft, and I'm sorry Mayo, but I think we need to consider skill position players in the first round.

6. Speaking of which, with the Bengals coming to town next week, a 2-3 record is quite likely and with five game mid-season stretch of Broncos-Lions-Colts-Packers-Chargers one has to wonder whether looking at mid-first draft options is something that needs to be considered. Gurley, Amari Cooper, Scherff and Funchess might all be possibilities.

7. Always been a fan of Mark Ingram and I think he'd be a good counterpunch to Abdullah. Ingram-Abdullah-White-A.N. Other is a potentially strong RB rotation.

I don't want to be all gloom and despair because I still think there's a corner that might be turned offensively. But I do think that is becoming less likely and that the discussion on this board needs to gravitate towards offense rather than D.

Bright side, it opens up more interesting draft discussions if we end up picking mid-round and that will be interesting.

I think that you can break it down into "worst case" and "less severe" scenarios:

Worst Case:

Much of what you describe as a possibility: Brady is indeed in decline, and the Garoppolo era is likely to start sooner rather than later; Nate Solder regresses and isn't worth keeping on his 5th year option, Sebastian Vollmer is a shadow of his former self, and the OL needs a major overhaul; the RB and WR positions need a major infusion of talent.

Less Severe:

Brady is still Brady, as long as you give him decent protection. Stork and Fleming looked decent, and Solder and Vollmer gradually work their way back towards previous form, stopping the OL hemorrhaging that we've seen. Gronk slowly rounds back into form, with some combination of Wright/Lafell emerging as a move TE option. The team works Dobson and Thompkins into the mix, and gets decent play from Vereen and Ridley.

I want to see how this plays out before committing to how we need to go. In the first scenario we'll be picking in the top 15, and I could see easily see something like Brandon Scherff + Ameer Abdullah/Kevin White as an attractive way to go. In the second scenario there will still be a need to invest in the offense, but certainly not with the same urgency.

luuked · Oct 1, 2014

mayoclinic said:
I think that you can break it down into "worst case" and "less severe" scenarios:

Worst Case:

Much of what you describe as a possibility: Brady is indeed in decline, and the Garoppolo era is likely to start sooner rather than later; Nate Solder regresses and isn't worth keeping on his 5th year option, Sebastian Vollmer is a shadow of his former self, and the OL needs a major overhaul; the RB and WR positions need a major infusion of talent.

In case we end up with an early pick and can go for Scherff as LT, what would you do with Solder ? Transition him to LG ? RT ? Try to trade him ?

I am mostly a novice when it comes to the nuances of football so I have no idea how difficult it would be to transition from LT to either of the positions. Correct me if I am wrong but LT seems to be more difficult to play than RT mostly because you are often facing the elite pass rushers on the blindside of the QB. Apart from that is there much difference ?

All in all, it looks to me as if Vollmer is closer to the end of his career than Solder, so why not solidify both tackles positions if we can.

Marinlik · Oct 1, 2014

luuked said:
In case we end up with an early pick and can go for Scherff as LT, what would you do with Solder ? Transition him to LG ? RT ? Try to trade him ?

I am mostly a novice when it comes to the nuances of football so I have no idea how difficult it would be to transition from LT to either of the positions. Correct me if I am wrong but LT seems to be more difficult to play than RT mostly because you are often facing the elite pass rushers on the blindside of the QB. Apart from that is there much difference ?

All in all, it looks to me as if Vollmer is closer to the end of his career than Solder, so why not solidify both tackles positions if we can.

I think right now Solder looks utterly horrible. If he doesn't improve this season we might release him to save about $7,4m next year instead of his 5th year option. But we would have to do that before the next league year starts, so about 1,5-2 months before the draft. Right now I really don't see him being worth that cash. But I will wait until the end of the season before I really go either way on if I want us to release him or not. As he hasn't been close to this bad before.

My Blueprint for the Offense

PatsFans.com Supporter

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Hall of Fame Poster

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Similar threads