Steve Young just nailed it (Brady doing more, with less help)

supafly · Sep 30, 2014

Efstratios said:
I've heard the argument that BB knows that he can't simply trade Brady without there being a mass media fallout. So instead, he's screwed up the offense to the point that it will justify TB being dealt. Not sure how much water this theory holds, though.

I see.

Personally, I'm thinking that this is just a team who has not found its identity yet.

While I'm obviously frustrated and have been prior to tonight, I believe that some are going overboard.

sb1 · Sep 30, 2014

Deus Irae said:
You also already said you were leaving, so feel free to go be wrong somewhere else.. We can't miss you if you won't go away.

Heh...gotta get that last word in huh?

Nope, not wrong just an informed opinion based on observation of this QB, this team, several of its fans and their head scratching fascination with stats...

With that - done.

patsfan-1982 · Sep 30, 2014

BB is not trying to end Brady's career at lest not on purpose he has just made some bad front office moves and bringing in BB ball washers like Michael Lombardi does not help IMO we don't want the 1995 browns

Sticky Caulk · Sep 30, 2014

sb1 said:
With that - done.

For real this time?

edkk323 · Sep 30, 2014

Efstratios said:
I've heard the argument that BB knows that he can't simply trade Brady without there being a mass media fallout. So instead, he's screwed up the offense to the point that it will justify TB being dealt. Not sure how much water this theory holds, though.

BB wants TB but also hedges for the future. I just do not think you can win SB with this method in today's NFL.

Sticky Caulk · Sep 30, 2014

patsfan-1982 said:
BB is not trying to end Brady's career at lest not on purpose he has just made some bad front office moves and bringing in BB ball washers like Michael Lombardi does not help IMO we don't want the 1995 browns

This is where I am at. BB loves Brady and wants to win another championship with him. He has gone about getting there the wrong way, this year. We had a number of good teams that almost made it recently. This season has started in a way that screams '10-6, one and done', and that may be because of unchecked moves by the GM.

Deus Irae · Sep 30, 2014

ctpatsfan77 said:
It seems pretty clear, at this point, that the Pats were only going to carry two QBs. So that basically leaves three strategies:

(1) Draft a late-round pick, and hope to sneak him onto the PS and groom him for a year to be the backup.
(2) If there's a QB prospect they really like who's available when they pick, draft him, and if he pans out, send Mallett packing.
(3) Do neither, and be at square zero next offseason when Mallett inevitably walks.

I think everyone here can agree that door number 3 is a zonk.

It seems like you think door number 1 was the better option; I can't blame them, even one bit, for choosing door number 2.

What seems pretty clear is irrelevant. The mistake was a mistake. Compounding it by being set in your decision about how many to carry just makes it worse, assuming you are correct.

Deus Irae · Sep 30, 2014

sb1 said:
Heh...gotta get that last word in huh?

Nope, not wrong just an informed opinion based on observation of this QB, this team, several of its fans and their head scratching fascination with stats...

With that - done.

You said you were leaving, yet you came back to post. So the last word thing kind of dies right there.

Now go be clueless elsewhere. Go explain how being in a walking case days before playing against a relentless pass rush, and still clearly being significantly impacted by that injury during the game, doesn't matter.

And I didn't talk about stats, so that's just a lame attempt at tossing out a red herring.

PatFanCraig · Sep 30, 2014

Not sabotaging the team but Bill made some comments that pi$$ed off Toms wife. It was something bout bill wanting to prove he could win without Brady. Toms not the type to go public but I'm sure it didn't sit well with him either. My employer is the same as Toms wife ( one of her many employers)whom I know loves him very much and looks out for him. She doesn't like how they have disrespected him after taking pay cuts. She took note to how Manning's team respects him enough to surround him with talent at his age. I hear she does not like Bill at all. She does not like the way he yells at Tom and stated she would never let her employer talk down to her like that. Tom spent some time with Welker who feels the same way. So maybe the rumors are true she wants Tom to finish playing for a team that respects and appreciates him enough to put players around him. I don't know how true it is but Tom doesn't look into it as much as usual.

One thing for sure Tom will not be traded to the highest bidder. He would just retire before being shipped to any scrub team.He would want a release or orchestrate his own trade. I don't know how the Rams were mentioned into it or if there is any substance there but Brady and the Rams has been used in the same conversation

Mark12 · Sep 30, 2014

What is it with all these crazy conspiracy theories claiming BB is trying to get rid of Brady?

ctpatsfan77 · Sep 30, 2014

Deus Irae said:
What seems pretty clear is irrelevant. The mistake was a mistake. Compounding it by being set in your decision about how many to carry just makes it worse, assuming you are correct.

So, Deus, let's suppose Belichick asked you this question: "Instead of doing what I did, how should I have handled the QB2 position?" How would you answer it?

supafly · Sep 30, 2014

Mark12 said:
What is it with all these crazy conspiracy theories claiming BB is trying to get rid of Brady?

People who are overreacting and searching for theories, I suppose.

Obviously, the team looks worse than any of us would've thought, so that is certainly concerning--actually extremely concerning.

The good news (and what some people seem to be forgetting) is that we're still in close competition for the division with the other teams who are 2-2, and have a decent shot of improving as the season moves on.

Deus Irae · Sep 30, 2014

ctpatsfan77 said:
So, Deus, let's suppose Belichick asked you this question: "Instead of doing what I did, how should I have handled the QB2 position?" How would you answer it?

I answered that during the offseason. Of all the things he could have done, he chose the one that offered no help at all for this season. Keeping Mallett or Signing a FA, for example, would have kept the draft pick available for a WR, OL or TE. He could also have gone somewhat in the other direction and swung a deal to get an extra pick in the round by trading future picks, and at least soften the blow, for that matter.

And if BB started me off by asking that question, I'd point out to him that we'd need context, and then I'd open up a discussion about Welker, Tavon and the like, and point out how his needless screwups there put the team in the position where taking JAG in round 2 was as stupid as it was.

supafly · Sep 30, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
Not sabotaging the team but Bill made some comments that pi$$ed off Toms wife. It was something bout bill wanting to prove he could win without Brady. Toms not the type to go public but I'm sure it didn't sit well with him either.

You keep referring to this statement where Belichick claimed that he "wants to prove that he can win without Brady."

Do you, by chance, have a link to said statement--because it sounds pretty unlikely to me?

PatFanCraig said:
My employer is the same as Toms wife ( one of her many employers)whom I know loves him very much and looks out for him. She doesn't like how they have disrespected him after taking pay cuts. She took note to how Manning's team respects him enough to surround him with talent at his age. I hear she does not like Bill at all. She does not like the way he yells at Tom and stated she would never let her employer talk down to her like that.

Then obviously Giselle does not understand how a successful American football team is run, or how a successful football coach acts.

I would have to believe that Tom Brady is a lot smarter, and that he understands that Belichick is going to yell. Obviously, they have a good chemistry together, which has been stated many times over the years.

If you're seeing Tom "not that into it" lately, it's because his offense sucks....

BradyFTW! · Sep 30, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
Not sabotaging the team but Bill made some comments that pi$$ed off Toms wife. It was something bout bill wanting to prove he could win without Brady. Toms not the type to go public but I'm sure it didn't sit well with him either. My employer is the same as Toms wife ( one of her many employers)whom I know loves him very much and looks out for him. She doesn't like how they have disrespected him after taking pay cuts. She took note to how Manning's team respects him enough to surround him with talent at his age. I hear she does not like Bill at all. She does not like the way he yells at Tom and stated she would never let her employer talk down to her like that. Tom spent some time with Welker who feels the same way. So maybe the rumors are true she wants Tom to finish playing for a team that respects and appreciates him enough to put players around him. I don't know how true it is but Tom doesn't look into it as much as usual.

One thing for sure Tom will not be traded to the highest bidder. He would just retire before being shipped to any scrub team.He would want a release or orchestrate his own trade. I don't know how the Rams were mentioned into it or if there is any substance there but Brady and the Rams has been used in the same conversation

The pats couldn't release Brady even if they wanted to, his contract is structured in a way that basically prohibits it from the pats' end. If it were to happen, it would be through a trade.

Efstratios · Sep 30, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
The pats couldn't release Brady even if they wanted to, his contract is structured in a way that basically prohibits it from the pats' end. If it were to happen, it would be through a trade.

The whole "Pats FO is sabotaging Brady's chances" thing becomes rather strange when taking this into account. It stands to reason that if they wanted to trade him, they'd want him to look appealing to other teams, and would put want to put him in a position to look good (statistically at least). As it stands now, however, other teams may be more hesitant to consider a hypothetical trade for TB, based on his performance thus far.

Now, I do agree that the Pats aren't fully devoted to winning with Brady at the helm, and would rather go on to JAG than put all the chips on the table and maximize TB's final years, but I don't think that they are TRYING to force him out, necessarily. If that were the case, why would they bother to try and improve the O-line this game? Why would they resign Edelmen back in the spring? (When they could have let him go, have Brady under perform, trade him and cut Danny A after this season, and use that money to sign a better receiver)?

james87654 · Sep 30, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
Not sabotaging the team but Bill made some comments that pi$$ed off Toms wife. It was something bout bill wanting to prove he could win without Brady. Toms not the type to go public but I'm sure it didn't sit well with him either. My employer is the same as Toms wife ( one of her many employers)whom I know loves him very much and looks out for him. She doesn't like how they have disrespected him after taking pay cuts. She took note to how Manning's team respects him enough to surround him with talent at his age. I hear she does not like Bill at all. She does not like the way he yells at Tom and stated she would never let her employer talk down to her like that. Tom spent some time with Welker who feels the same way. So maybe the rumors are true she wants Tom to finish playing for a team that respects and appreciates him enough to put players around him. I don't know how true it is but Tom doesn't look into it as much as usual.

One thing for sure Tom will not be traded to the highest bidder. He would just retire before being shipped to any scrub team.He would want a release or orchestrate his own trade. I don't know how the Rams were mentioned into it or if there is any substance there but Brady and the Rams has been used in the same conversation

lol........uh-oh, gisele is mad......

.........those toilets better be spick-and-span this week

i couldn't help it

ctpatsfan77 · Sep 30, 2014

Deus Irae said:
I answered that during the offseason. Of all the things he could have done, he chose the one that offered no help at all for this season. Keeping Mallett or Sign
ing a FA, for example, would have kept the draft pick available for a WR, OL or TE. He could also have gone somewhat in the other direction and swung a deal to get an extra pick in the round by trading future picks, and at least soften the blow, for that matter.

Note that every option you've suggested has a downside.

Keeping Mallett = no QB in the system at the start of next year.
Signing a FA = costs more than Garoppolo, so less cap room for extending players, and you still might have no other QBs signed entering the 2015 offseason.
Swinging a deal by trading future picks = getting extra help now at the cost of getting help later.

We fans have the luxury of hindsight, and the luxury of not having to consider the long-term.

You think drafting Garoppolo was a mistake, based on your criteria; that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I think it wasn't, based on mine; it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. Neither opinion is inherently more or less valid than the other, and neither one is an incontrovertible fact.

Deus Irae · Sep 30, 2014

ctpatsfan77 said:
Note that every option you've suggested has a downside.

Keeping Mallett = no QB in the system at the start of next year.
Signing a FA = costs more than Garoppolo, so less cap room for extending players, and you still might have no other QBs signed entering the 2015 offseason.
Swinging a deal by trading future picks = getting extra help now at the cost of getting help later.

We fans have the luxury of hindsight, and the luxury of not having to consider the long-term.

You think drafting Garoppolo was a mistake, based on your criteria; that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I think it wasn't, based on mine; it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. Neither opinion is inherently more or less valid than the other, and neither one is an incontrovertible fact.

I don't consider your second option to be a downside, at all, and the hindsight argument is complete horse crap.

To say you're reaching would be a major understatement.

TheBostonStraggler · Sep 30, 2014

Tallying up the score: (1) BB doesn't want TB -- Giselle's comments confirm it. (2) BB is sabotaging the Patriots chances of winning to get rid of Brady. (3) The Patriots are withholding cap money simply because they are too cheap and/or incompetent and/or also part of the plan to get rid of Brady. (4) Drafting JAG is another part of the plan to get rid of Brady. (5) BB won't get rid of Brady because he fears the media and/or its reaction, he would rather employ sinister subterfuge at a cost of victories and players' healths.

Wow........

Steve Young just nailed it (Brady doing more, with less help)

Eff you, Shula

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