Steve Young just nailed it (Brady doing more, with less help)

sb1 said:

.... where the offense has come up small in the SB - including one historical loss.... plus an embarrasing one and done to the Jets... and a couple of playoff exits at home where the offense is shut out in the second half IIRC. So it's not as impressive as it may appear.

I want him to have playmakers too but as BB has figured out, the Air Brady show is done. I don't think that's a bad thing.

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Yes

Clearly this new approach is yielding great results

sb1 said:

.... where the offense has come up small in the SB - including one historical loss.... plus an embarrasing one and done to the Jets... and a couple of playoff exits at home where the offense is shut out in the second half IIRC. So it's not as impressive as it may appear.

I want him to have playmakers too but as BB has figured out, the Air Brady show is done. I don't think that's a bad thing.

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Are you trying to one up the ridiculousness of your earlier post?

sb1 said:

This team is not the New England Bradys, it's the New England Patriots. What Brady or anyone else thinks about his weapons is irrelevant to me. This was an Air Brady team for the past 7 years, how has that worked out?

The more pressing concern is what the hell happened to this team's supposedly improved defense and why a BB defense got completely laid to waste tonight. That bothers me a lot more than BRady's stats.

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Yes, all the way around. I have thought this year that the D had promise. They might not be the ugly hot mess we saw tonight. They might even be a good defense, when all is said and done. But we've got 1/4 of the season behind us and they're not showing consistency yet. If they become something, they have to earn it week by week - talking about the D.

The O just doesn't have the high ceiling it once did.

DefenseRules said:

Be careful, I got called a moron for making that statement...and I was being sarcastic.

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Judging from 4 games... he can't succeed playing at the present level. Some games he didn't get time. This game he was forcing throws, whatever. He's just not superman anymore.., and you were spot-on. People saw hope when Garapol0 scored garbage-time points. I need to learn to spell that guy's name.

At present, Brady sucks. It will not be long before the low production at QB justifies an "experiment." You called it right - the fan base and media will be clamoring for it.

And we have what to lose... 150 yards and two picks, playing against decent teams?

You have to ask... what happens with these same "weapons" if you give Garapolo a start? That's what fans want to see. I'd be the last one to say give it a shot... I still don't say it now.... but I'm getting there. At the very least, it gives you a "control" for judging Brady's play.

Deus Irae said:

Of all the lousy posts that have been around here this year, and they've been legion, yours is the worst I've seen. Congrats on that, I guess.

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Brady is the QB of this team, yes? It's his job to play well with what he has. When he stinks it up, it's on him and not some wishful thinking that he had all these weapons around him. Having the "weapons" hasn't exactly worked out in the last few years in the rings department now has it.

Like I said - and not saying you, just in general - but fans need to let go of this fascination with stacking up to Manning's stats and comparing Brady to him. I could care less if Brady throws for 100 yards a game and the Pats win but I do care if the defense has their lunch money stolen from them like tonight. That to me is more troubling than Brady's stats.

If Brady sucks vs Cincy and then IN Buff....something MAJOR is wrong and will take a big change to fix.

If he can't string together a good game on his own here..we are done this season

This is the 2nd year straight where Brady has no weapons, no OL, and he's dealt with a bad defense since 2009. All this falls on BB. His go cheap and get low value players is finally showing.

sb1 said:

Brady is the QB of this team, yes? It's his job to play well with what he has. When he stinks it up, it's on him and not some wishful thinking that he had all these weapons around him. Having the "weapons" hasn't exactly worked out in the last few years in the rings department now has it.

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This is crap. When a QB has nothing around him, he cannot maximize his skills. This is particularly true of a pocket passer. Now, you can keep bleating on with the nonsense about it being wishful thinking, or you can realize that your post is horse droppings in the context of the thread. I don't really care which, because I've been reading ridiculous posts by people here for years.

And to point to a lack of rings as if it's some validation of your position is moronic. It's not validation but, rather, just the opposite. It's an absolute condemnation of Belichick, as he spent so much of his highest draft capital on the defensive side of the ball and STILL couldn't get a defense that could put the team over the top.

Take a look at the Patriots offense. There is one, repeat one, first round pick there, and that's Solder. Nate Solder is the highest drafted offensive player of the Bill Belichick era.

Take a long, hard, look into your mind about that.

ProductOfASystem said:

Brady said he'd play until he sucked. It seems it's time for him to retire.

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Gee, Product of a System...how stunning that you would post that. Screw off, troll.

deters said:

This is the 2nd year straight where Brady has no weapons, no OL, and he's dealt with a bad defense since 2009. All this falls on BB. His go cheap and get low value players is finally showing.

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I'm not sure you can say cheap as the problem. He's made poor decisions, but being cheap isn't the issue when you are within a few million of the salary cap.

WhoaDirty said:

I'm not sure you can say cheap as the problem. He's made poor decisions, but being cheap isn't the issue when you are within a few million of the salary cap.

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We cut Tommy Kelly for Joe F'n Vellano because he was cheaper.

We are 14 mill under the cap.

WhoaDirty said:

I'm not sure you can say cheap as the problem. He's made poor decisions, but being cheap isn't the issue when you are within a few million of the salary cap.

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You're falling for the myth. Go take a look at Miguel's info regarding actual cash outlay.

Brady is sucking. It could be a result of being frustrated with by the turnstile OL and lack of playmaking WRs but he is sucking.
I have a feeling the staff just prefers some players to others regardless of talent. I didn't understand running Vereen more than Ridley.

Please don't make a "rings" argument either for or against. Only one team wins the Super Bowl in the NFL each year, and one-off playoff games largely come down to randomness - a fumble here, a helmet catch there. It's so, so far from Brady's fault he hasn't won rings.

Deus Irae said:

This is crap. When a QB has nothing around him, he cannot maximize his skills. This is particularly true of a pocket passer. Now, you can keep bleating on with the nonsense about it being wishful thinking, or you can realize that your post is horse droppings in the context of the thread. I don't really care which, because I've been reading ridiculous posts by people here for years.

And to point to a lack of rings as some validation of your position is moronic.

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Not arguing against the first part of your reply... I'm arguing against the hand wringing that Tom needs all pro weapons to play well. It's fascinating that I seem to be one of the few Pats fans who loathe what I saw tonight on defense - and I have a good reason to - and 90% are fussing about Brady and his weapons and "look at Manning!1!1!"

The Air Brady show was fun to watch... but it didn't work out. Fact. It's time for more balanced approach and enough of this hand wringing that poor, poor Tom doesn't have Mannings weapons... he's won a SB with talent just as inferior, let's not pretend he's helpless out there...

This team is a lot more than just the QB.

2013 - The best slot WR in football is allowed to walk instead of being retained. A 50 catch receiver is pressured to take a pay cut from a reasonable salary, and tells the team to go pound sand. A china doll is brought in to replace the slot guy, and a pair of rookies, one of whom is a UDFA, end up as the team's starting WRs for a portion of the season.

2014 - Along with strong arming the leader of the defense into a huge contract revision, and doing the same with the team's second best DT, the team trades away its best offensive lineman just a few days before the season starts rather than paying him his contractually agreed upon salary.

Yeah, Brady shouldn't have any take on that sort of crap, because screw him. He's just a cog.


And people wonder why I despise the insane homers more than the insane haters?

Awesome! The blowout loss has brought out in full force the ''BB Sucks, TB is an immortal' versus the 'TB has lost it' debate. After a crappy game it's a great elixir to get over it.

Consider: Saying Brady sucked tonight doesn't make me a non Brady fan. I'm a huge Brady fan. And saying BB's coaching/preparation sucked doesn't make me a non BB fan. I'm a huge BB fan.
For this game both of them were 'starkly ineffective', it was fairly obvious.

Steve Young? Okayyyy...........

It's amazing that any real patriot fan that has been watching this team fail to field a defense for 10 years that scared anyone can turn on Brady like this. It's not like he has Chicago's weaponry or Peyton's or even Cousins' in Washington and is stinking it up.

You all are mad that Brady can't destroy @ 37 with a garbage OLine, Edleman, a gimpy Gronk and Jags. While BB has tried year in and year out to fix the defense and still can't get off the field on 3rd down. Newsflash. The defense was this bad maybe worse the last 5 years or so. Nothing new here.

The last 2 Super Bowl runs we had, the defenses weren't great. Deus is 100% correct. It's not about Brady in a vacuum not about his Peyton comparison etc. The team's success was built on his back, now that he can't carry it the holes are being exposed. Simple.

Deus Irae said:

You're falling for the myth. Go take a look at Miguel's info regarding actual cash outlay.

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Regardless of the cash spending part, do they still not have to fit under the allotted salary cap? I can only find 2013 totals, and their cap number was $110.5 mil/$123 mil.

sb1 said:

Not arguing against the first part of your reply... I'm arguing against the hand wringing that Tom needs all pro weapons to play well. It's fascinating that I seem to be one of the few Pats fans who loathe what I saw tonight on defense - and I have a good reason to - and 90% are fussing about Brady and his weapons and "look at Manning!1!1!"

The Air Brady show was fun to watch... but it didn't work out. Fact. It's time for more balanced approach and enough of this hand wringing that poor, poor Tom doesn't have Mannings weapons... he's won a SB with talent just as inferior, let's not pretend he's helpless out there...

This team is a lot more than just the QB.

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You're talking out of your ass is what you're doing. And Tom did not win a SB with talent just as inferior. That's another load.

Deus Irae said:

2013 - The best slot WR in football is allowed to walk instead of being retained. A 50 catch receiver is pressured to take a pay cut from a reasonable salary, and tells the team to go pound sand. A china doll is brought in to replace the slot guy, and a pair of rookies, one of whom is a UDFA, end up as the team's starting WRs for a portion of the season.

2014 - Along with strong arming the leader of the defense into a huge contract revision, and doing the same with the team's second best DT, the team trades away its best offensive lineman just a few days before the season starts rather than paying him his contractually agreed upon salary.

Yeah, Brady shouldn't have any take on that sort of crap, because screw him. He's just a cog.


And people wonder why I despise the insane homers more than the insane haters?

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Deus I am starting to see it now. Tom isn't wanted anymore here and needs to leave to go get his talents appreciated. Sucks but Tom may need to leave to get another ring as a starter.