Major overhaul on the o-line according to SMY (merged)

Peachhead · Sep 29, 2014

Zeus said:
You will need a live chicken, a pogo stick and a bottle of Irish whiskey.

Wait...we're not talking about my Saturday night's, right?

Froob · Sep 29, 2014

I just heard on the radio that the pats are replacing the card board cut out line with actual players. Could catch KC off guard.

BradyManny · Sep 29, 2014

Rob0729 said:
The Pats have plugged rookies into other starting positions in an emergency and produced productive results almost immediately. For example, Eugene Wilson at FS.

Right but if Flemming was the plan, why bother with a stopgap of another rookie - an undrafted one at that - in Devey?

BelichickFan · Sep 29, 2014

BradyManny said:
Right but if Flemming was the plan, why bother with a stopgap of another rookie - an undrafted one at that - in Devey?

Devey has more experience in the system, he was on our practice squad all of last year.

JMC00 · Sep 29, 2014

BradyManny said:
Right but if Flemming was the plan, why bother with a stopgap of another rookie - an undrafted one at that - in Devey?

Listening to 98.5 2-6?

That's the only place I have heard refer to Devey as a rookie.

supafly · Sep 29, 2014

Ivan said:
I think they can move Cannon into the BIG TE/OT role Fleming has been playing.

Didn't we see it a couple of years ago during the STL game? (end of October '12)

I thought I remember seeing Cannon at that tackle eligible spot before.

AzPatsFan · Sep 29, 2014

Rob0729 said:
The things Cannon seem to lack are not things that can come with experience in most cases. The knock on him seems to be that he is not processing the play fast enough and is slow to react. That is tough to impossible to teach.

That is not a skill that is neccessary for a tackle because their assignments are easier. It is something needed for a guard.

I think new coaching theory is being written. Playing Guard according to the blogger wisdom, is tougher than playing tackle. Yeah, Right! That is why some Tackles become Guards, and Guards Don't usually become tackles.

It is true that BB and Dante kept Cannon at tackle. They needed him there, and none of the interior players were good enough to play tackle.

State · Sep 29, 2014

BelichickFan said:
Devey has more experience in the system, he was on our practice squad all of last year.

Which is where he probably should have stayed.

And Cannon isn't getting the job done at LG. http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...ensive-line/vGp9Hbdv83odICxarwn9AN/story.html NFLer Shaun O'Hara is a knowledgeable, disinterested source.

So when we moved Mankins over to LT we brought in Josh Kline. Is first game he struggled. His second he had dramatic improvement.

So what has changed this year that we play a practice squad player we had over Kline? I think this new OL coach might not be as good an evaluator of talent as is necessary. Where he has succeeded is when he came into an established group and just went over the X's and O's.

This KC game will be a big test. I look for some improvement from the group. What will happen if they continue to struggle, though, costing us? I hope we go with Solder-Kline-Wendell-Connolly-Vollmer.

As the end of last season I would not have believed I'd be saying the combination in the interior, which is probably the least talented in the NFL. At least they can work together and not appear lost like Cannon or completely outclassed like Devey.

mayoclinic · Sep 29, 2014

Rob0729 said:
The things Cannon seem to lack are not things that can come with experience in most cases. The knock on him seems to be that he is not processing the play fast enough and is slow to react. That is tough to impossible to teach.

That is not a skill that is neccessary for a tackle because their assignments are easier. It is something needed for a guard.

BobDigital said:
I don't know Mayo. I know you have been on this train for a while like a lot of other posters (me included). I just don't see it right now. He looks like a guard. His measurables say guard. But this is his 4th year in the NFL and the only time he has had success has been at tackle. I have seen him take snaps at guard not just this year but the past few years and he has been inconsistent at best from that position.

Maybe he will learn how to play it in the future but I don't want to keep getting Brady killed in the mean time while he learns under fire (and he might never get it). I think it says in the bible "what would it profit a team to gain a guard but to lose it's QB" or something like that : p

At this point that I don't know if he will ever be a guard. Players sometimes fit outside their meassurables and position they should play going by the general archetypes and play well at ones you wouldn't expect. At this point I am thinking Cannon is such a player. He seems like a tackle in a guards body and no matter how much we all think he should be able to play guard maybe he just can't.

Something in the technique might just be too awkward for him to do for a reason that can't be seen going by his player bio.

You may both be right - it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong, and it certainly won't be the last. I just don't know if 3 games is adequate to make a dispositive evaluation. The Pats saw enough to start him at LG. It's hard to criticize Cannon's slow reaction times at a new position if he isn't given enough time at the position to allow his reaction times to improve. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you are right, but I personally wouldn't close the door on the Cannon at guard experiment at this point.

mayoclinic · Sep 29, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
I think new coaching theory is being written. Playing Guard according to the blogger wisdom, is tougher than playing tackle. Yeah, Right! That is why some Tackles become Guards, and Guards Don't usually become tackles.

It is true that BB and Dante kept Cannon at tackle. They needed him there, and none of the interior players were good enough to play tackle.

I concur. Let's hope according to this new "guard is mentally harder to play than tackle theory" that Cameron Fleming's Stanford engineering background gives him enough smarts to adapt to a completely new position better than Cannon has. If he struggles, are we going to give him a full 3 games before pulling the plug on that experiment?

It takes time to adjust to a position switch for most players.

AzPatsFan · Sep 29, 2014

Ivan said:
Same here, that would be one big assed right side of the O with Fleming, Vollmer, and Cannon at the BIG spot..

The entire line that Belichick is envisioning and creating will be one big assed line, tackle to tackle, and with Gronkowski back to being Gronk including a big assed TE too!

Froob · Sep 29, 2014

Feeling good about tonight, going to be an OL breakout game. Brady will have multiple plays with 5 seconds to throw. Amendola will make a big catch and LaFell won't be flagged for interference.

AzPatsFan · Sep 29, 2014

mayoclinic said:
You may both be right - it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong, and it certainly won't be the last. I just don't know if 3 games is adequate to make a dispositive evaluation. The Pats saw enough to start him at LG. It's hard to criticize Cannon's slow reaction times at a new position if he isn't given enough time at the position to allow his reaction times to improve. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you are right, but I personally wouldn't close the door on the Cannon at guard experiment at this point.

Neither would I. I recommend you standnby your excellent instincts, until Game 6 at least.

mayoclinic · Sep 29, 2014

Ivan said:
I think they can move Cannon into the BIG TE/OT role Fleming has been playing.

I agree with this. In fact, I could see 2 reasons why they might move Connolly to LG right now, even if they haven't necessarily (and I have no knowledge either way on this) given up on Cannon at guard:

1. Connolly is more experienced, and with 2 rookies on the interior line they don't want that much inexperience, particularly against a very good Chief's front 7.

2. With Fleming moving to RG, keeping Connolly at LG allows them to try Cannon in Fleming's "big TE/OR" role, where he has the size and athleticism to excel. I personally think Cannon is more likely to do well in this role than Connolly.

Just a thought, and again, I have no evidence to either support or disprove it.

stelfans · Sep 29, 2014

Cannon played RG last year a few times and wasnt good. Its not exactly a surprise that he sucks at LG too.
3, 4, 5, 6 even 10 games may not be a big enough sample size but you have to stop the bleeding before Brady dies. Getting Cannon out of there seems like a good place to start.

Brady6 · Sep 29, 2014

BradyManny said:
Right but if Flemming was the plan, why bother with a stopgap of another rookie - an undrafted one at that - in Devey?

Maybe they did not care about destroying Devey’s confidence and wanted to take a slower more secure approach with Fleming.

Brady6 · Sep 29, 2014

Froob said:
Feeling good about tonight, going to be an OL breakout game. Brady will have multiple plays with 5 seconds to throw. Amendola will make a big catch and LaFell won't be flagged for interference.

I just hope Dobson is active and has an opportunity to be a part of the passing attack.

QB12 · Sep 29, 2014

Froob said:
Feeling good about tonight, going to be an OL breakout game. Brady will have multiple plays with 5 seconds to throw. Amendola will make a big catch and LaFell won't be flagged for interference.

Would love to see a comparison of last week's O-line's average weight to this week's.

Brady6 · Sep 29, 2014

All I can say is I am against removing Marcus Cannon from the starting lineup. He graded out as the #8 RT in the NFL last season, allowed just 1 sacks, 4 hits, and 12 pressures last season. If the Patriots cannot find a way to get that type of OL on the field full time in a position he can succeed, given the status of are OL currently I have to question the new OL coach.

Joey007 · Sep 29, 2014

I like it. The only way to fix this oline issue may be to shake it up, we'll see how it does tonight.

Major overhaul on the o-line according to SMY (merged)

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