Peyton "rule change" Manning at it again

There's an old bookie axiom..."Never lay money on ANY N.Y. sporting event...unless you have inside dope"

Joker said:

No, you do NOT know what you are talking about. READ what is REAL, what is the TRUTH and then try to realize that you were and ARE 100% wrong.


On January 8, 2006, the Bengals met their division rival Pittsburgh in the first round of the AFC playoffs at Paul Brown Stadium in Cincinnati.

On the Bengals' first pass play, Carson Palmer threw a 66-yard pass to rookie receiver Chris Henry. It was the longest completion in Bengals playoff history. After Palmer released the pass, Steelers defensive tackle Kimo von Oelhoffen was pushed from behind while diving for Palmer, violently wrenching Palmer's knee, and he was forced to leave the game. A magnetic resonance imaging test revealed a severe knee injury, thought to be career-threatening at the time; Palmer had tears of both the anterior cruciate and medial collateral ligaments as well as cartilage and meniscus damage. Coincidentally, Henry himself suffered a knee injury on the same play, though far less severe. Having knocked Palmer out of the game the Steelers went on to win 31–17.

During the off-season, the league's Rules Committee modified the rule regarding low hits on quarterbacks. The new rule prohibited defenders from hitting a passer at or below the knee unless they are blocked into him. The so-called "Carson Palmer Rule" now requires that defenders take every opportunity to avoid hitting a quarterback at or below the knees when the quarterback is in a defenseless position looking to throw with both feet on the ground.

"During the off-season, the league's Rules Committee modified the rule regarding low hits on quarterbacks. The new rule prohibited defenders from hitting a passer at or below the knee unless they are blocked into him. The so-called "Carson Palmer Rule" now requires that defenders take every opportunity to avoid hitting a quarterback at or below the knees when the quarterback is in a defenseless position looking to throw with both feet on the ground."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_Palmer

"
After Tom Brady's season-ending injury during the Patriots' opening weekend against the Kansas City Chiefs, the Competition Committee further adapted the rule.

The clarification specifically prohibits a defender on the ground who hasn't been blocked or fouled directly into the quarterback from lunging or diving at the quarterback's lower legs."

as usual, you ignorant Manning apologists try to come up with all kinds of twists and spins to denigrate Brady while practically ignoring the scumbag face sitting event that is a BLOTCH, a STAIN on your precious Peytie's so-called pure career. The fact that you have the unmitigated gall, the temerity to say the tuck rule was rarely enforced before the Raiders game illustrates the FACT that you ARE a troll. You have been shown in this very thread to be WRONG...over and over...and yet you persist with your string of lies.

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Joker needs your boots, your pants, and your motorcycle.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Yes
That's why I said " invoked the only time ever in NFL history"

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Ohhhh....THAT'S why...

Peyton Manning's performance and comments have made effect on changes in some rules more than once:

1) Illegal Contact - 2004

Colts lose 2003-04 AFCCG to Patriots; Manning gets intercepted 4 times.

The following year, the illegal contact penalty becomes a "point of emphasis" for the 2004 season. Bill Polian, Colts' GM and Team President, pushed this issue.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1771047

The last five minutes of the 2003 AFC championship game apparently made a lasting impression on the NFL competition committee.

Peyton Manning's futile attempt get the ball to receivers while being suffocated by New England defenders caused Indianapolis coaches to scream that the coverage was illegal. And, it seems, the league listened.

So much so that the influential committee, which sets the tone for on-field rules changes in the league, has decided to do something about all the excessive grabbing and holding that goes on in the secondary on pass plays.

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There have been complaints the last couple seasons that the illegal contact rule had been a bit loosened. But the AFC championship game, in which the Patriots were often draped over Colts receivers and weren't flagged a single time, probably forced more focus to the issue. Colts coach Tony Dungy is also a member of the subcommittee.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...phasis-on-illegal-contact-didnt-seem-logical/

Among other things, Pereira talked about the renewed emphasis that was placed in the middle of the last decade on the rule regarding illegal contact with receivers. Pereira made it clear that Colts president Bill Polian, a long-time member of the Competition Committee, pushed the issue due to the perception/reality that Patriots defensive backs were manhandling Indianapolis receivers.

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2) OT rules - 2010

Colts lose on 2008-09 WC weekend to Chargers in OT; SD wins toss, receives, and wins the game with a FG, not giving the ball back to Peyton.

Just before 2009 season, new OT rules were submitted, but rejected by the NFL competition committee. However, a year after this (and after Brett Favre loss on a similar situation) , the rule passes, and new OT rules are adopted.

Peyton complained after the Chargers win in WC weekend:

"For me it was disappointing," Manning said. "You'd like to win it in regulation when you have a chance because you know when you go into overtime, that's a risk because you might not get a chance on offense."

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Players and coaches voted on a poll that same year after the fans and media started questioning OT rules:

Many fans and media have been agog since the Chargers won the overtime coin toss and drove for a TD to beat the Colts in the Wild Card round in January. A vocal segment of those groups believe there should be a change in the sudden-death format. According to McKay, coaches and players polled did not agree.

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When asked about the possibility of new OT rules, Bill Polian tried to make a compelling argument with an example of his own team, saying this:

"Kicking that 51-yard field goal turned out to be the play that turned around our season and inspired us to make the playoffs,'' Polian said. "Having sudden death in overtime puts you in a position where you might take risks. Keeping it as it is provides a reward for taking a risk.''

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Just to "convince" himself a few years later:

“This rule allows the defense to play defense, because if you hold them to a field goal, you’ve got a shot,” Polian said. “So it does allow you to play defense — it actually forces you to play defense. As opposed to long kickoff return, first down, no yardage; second down, short yardage; third down, long pass, pass interference; field goal, game over. This forces you to play defense. If you can’t play defense, you’re going to get scored upon.”

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You can put this one on both him and Favre, but unlike Manning, Favre didn't talk.


3) Umpire position rule - 2010

In 2010, NFL adopted a new position for the umpires: Umpire moves from behind the defensive line to 15 yds behind the offensive line. In the preseason, Peyton gets flagged twice for Illegal Snap, as he gets frustated because he cannot establish no-huddle offenses appropiately, being forced to wait for the officials to get into their positions.

Illegal Snap (loss of 5 yds) - Rule 4, Section 6, Article 5b

the snapper repeatedly snaps the ball after the neutral zone is established and before all the officials have had a reasonable time to assume their positions.

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This rule was made to protect officials, rather than to make games slow:

The umpire will be moved from behind the defensive line to 15 yards behind the offensive line. The umpire has manned the position behind the defensive line since football was invented. The reason for the change was that the NFL saw an increase in the amount of times umpires were getting hit.

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Peyton and the Colts complained a lot about this rule in the preseason:

One day after Manning drew two penalties for illegal snaps during a preseason game at Green Bay, Colts coach Jim Caldwell pleaded with NFL officials to re-evaluate a change that forces players to wait for the umpire to get into his new position before the ball can be put in play.

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Here's Peyton complaining, along with ESPN announcers supporting him on changing the new rule:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/09000d5d81a0f22c/Manning-sounds-off-on-new-rule

Finally, they get something out the league: the position is moved from 15 yds to 12 yds.

Peyton Manning complained, the NFL listened, and now the league is making additional tweaks to the umpire rule.

All 32 teams were told in a memo from the league Tuesday that the umpire will position himself 12 yards from the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped instead of approximately 15 yards, the spot used during the preseason.

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4) Illegal contact - 2014

Just like 2004, NFL adopts the illegal contact, and defensive holding as their "point of emphasis" for the year, the same year Peyton's offense gets mauled by a great defense.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/7/...-contact-defensive-holding-points-of-emphasis

After the illegal contact rule was created in 1978, it has been revisited only twice, both because of Peyton's failures in the playoffs:

A decade ago, the NFL made illegal contact and defensive holding a point of emphasis based in part on complaints from former Colts G.M. Bill Polian that Patriots defensive backs were manhandling Peyton Manning’s pass-catchers. Now, the NFL is re-emphasizing the point of emphasis.

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On a side note: Why does Peyton's losses get so much attention? He can't lose?
And what is the big deal with that "comeback" he made?
Did they mention the Broncos punt the ball on 8 consecutive drives (something yet to be done by his fellow elite QBs Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Yes, I checked )?
Did they mention how the defense kept the Seahawks in check?
How about the short field the defense gave him on that INT for his 1st TD of the game?

Brady's comeback in 2012 vs 49ers was even more epic (28 pts down), and nobody cared. People just saw Kaepernick "rise" as a new NFL star. We didn't care much either, given the amount of mistakes and frustations we had on that game, and the fact that we lost the game.
However, all I hear is optimism from the Broncos side, and praise to Peyton for a 14-pt comeback, which count as an L in their record.
Pathetic in my opinion.

DarrylS said:

If Peyton won the coin toss and won the game, he would love the rule... maybe he is trying to figure out a competitive edge for the post season...

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"On one side of the commemorative coin will be the Super Bowl Logo, which will be tails... on the other side will be a portrait of Peyton Manning's enormous mutant forehead, which will be heads. Since it is Peyton's forehead, the Broncolts will call it in the air..."

Every rules changes are caused by the Patriots for forcing the changes. It is nobody but the Patriots fault.

Signed...
Pathetic Jets fans.

josh24 said:

Peyton Manning's performance and comments have made effect on changes in some rules more than once:

1) Illegal Contact - 2004

Colts lose 2003-04 AFCCG to Patriots; Manning gets intercepted 4 times.

The following year, the illegal contact penalty becomes a "point of emphasis" for the 2004 season. Bill Polian, Colts' GM and Team President, pushed this issue.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1771047

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Outstanding job josh my man. Should be Bookmarked at the top of Patsfans for future troll repellant.

runandgun said:

Again no dirt being thrown, but
1. the Pats vs Raiders Tuck Rule is the most notorious instance of the rule being used, can't be denied. I never once said it was created just for that game, but rarely called and I believe never called in the playoffs prior to that, I know what I'm talking about.
2. the hitting a QB low rule changed after Brady got hurt, I know what I'm talking about. A rule was in place after Palmer got hurt, but it was changed after Brady got hurt as well, ie. the rule changed because of Brady's injury.

I'll bet anything both of those statments hold up in a non biased setting. Broken record statement, but no trolling being administered, just saying hey now, people feel you guys are favored as well, so let's take it easy. No one is discrediting your franchise or QB.

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The obvious point that you are missing that make both of your examples irrelevant is that the Patriots/Brady did nothing to bring either of those two rules about. This whole thread is about how rules have been changed as a result of Peyton complaining. You keep on bringing up examples that have nothing to do with the topic.

BSR said:

The obvious point that you are missing that make both of your examples irrelevant is that the Patriots/Brady did nothing to bring either of those two rules about. This whole thread is about how rules have been changed as a result of Peyton complaining. You keep on bringing up examples that have nothing to do with the topic.

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I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure you're hearing what I was saying. Everyone is flaming Peyton and saying he got the rules changed, but if your theories are true, it was actually Polian that got the rules changed.

2ndly the 2 instances I brought up with the tuck rule and the low hit rule was in no way saying the Pats complained/ paid off the league/ the league is fixed. I never said any of that and think that's ridiculous. My only point in bringing any of that up was just to say as an outside fan, although many believe Peyton gets a lot of love from the league, many also believe the Patriots do as well. Those two examples weren't saying the Pats lobbied for them or unfairly got them. I understand that may not go over well here, but just throwing it out there, many people outside of the New England area believe the NFL thinks of Brady as their post child.

Yet you're obtusely oblivious to the detailed facts cited that prove the error of those Brady impressions.

runandgun said:

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure you're hearing what I was saying. Everyone is flaming Peyton and saying he got the rules changed, but if your theories are true, it was actually Polian that got the rules changed.

2ndly the 2 instances I brought up with the tuck rule and the low hit rule was in no way saying the Pats complained/ paid off the league/ the league is fixed. I never said any of that and think that's ridiculous. My only point in bringing any of that up was just to say as an outside fan, although many believe Peyton gets a lot of love from the league, many also believe the Patriots do as well. Those two examples weren't saying the Pats lobbied for them or unfairly got them. I understand that may not go over well here, but just throwing it out there, many people outside of the New England area believe the NFL thinks of Brady as their post child.

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I can appreciate that your not a super troll and your not here to make this board a sucky experience but I feel like you were born yesterday. Literally yesterday. Maybe you were like 4 years old in 2004 and that's why you don't know what we are talking about?

New England Pride said:

I can appreciate that your not a super troll and your not here to make this board a sucky experience but I feel like you were born yesterday. Literally yesterday. Maybe you were like 4 years old in 2004 and that's why you don't know what we are talking about?

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Lol. Thanks I guess. Thanks for at least seeing I'm not trolling. I'm not that kind of fan. I know and personally dislike hearing people troll or use personal feelings to discredit a player or a team. Just yesterday I called a guy a fool for admitting his criticisim of Brady is just becasue he doesn't' like his personality. I'm a diehard Bronco's fan and only come here hoping to have civil conversations with possibly the most consistently competitive franchise in the league. I wouldn't be on here with Jets fans. My fanhood doesn't get in the way of me viewing other teams. Nothing I mentioned was saying you guys cheat, the NFL gives you wins, or any of that crap. These new rules are sometimes weak and offense friendly. However, as a fan of a pass first team, I can't really complain too much because I believe we've made the league/viewers love this style of play. In my opinion, the Pats, Saints, Packers, and even the Falcons are right in the boat with us. People often tell me the league likes team like the Broncos that pass all the time because it's good for ratings. I'm like okay, guilty as charged.

runandgun said:

Lol. Thanks I guess. Thanks for at least seeing I'm not trolling. I'm not that kind of fan. I know and personally dislike hearing people troll or use personal feelings to discredit a player or a team. Just yesterday I called a guy a fool for admitting his criticisim of Brady is just becasue he doesn't' like his personality. I'm a diehard Bronco's fan and only come here hoping to have civil conversations with possibly the most consistently competitive franchise in the league. I wouldn't be on here with Jets fans. My fanhood doesn't get in the way of me viewing other teams. Nothing I mentioned was saying you guys cheat, the NFL gives you wins, or any of that crap. These new rules are sometimes weak and offense friendly. However, as a fan of a pass first team, I can't really complain too much because I believe we've made the league/viewers love this style of play. In my opinion, the Pats, Saints, Packers, and even the Falcons are right in the boat with us. People often tell me the league likes team like the Broncos that pass all the time because it's good for ratings. I'm like okay, guilty as charged.

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Well, I appreciate your change of tone from the first post you made. The first post was pretty trollish, and I thought you were a Jest fan at first, but I can see you're trying to steer things in a more positive direction.

Here's the thing that you may not have realized. You've pretty much stepped into the gladiator pit with a bunch of grizzled veterans of days gone by when Colts fans used to come in here with very similar arguments and comments. They rarely stuck around for long when it became obvious that the facts didn't fit their perceptions.

The perception of Brady as the "darling of the NFL" is a relic of a time long past. There was a day when Brady WAS that guy. I'd say that came crashing down in 2005 or so when it became apparent that, even after all those Super Bowl wins, he wasn't going to be so buddy-buddy with the media. And Belichick certainly wasn't going to fill the void to give fans access to the Patriots. I remember those days when people extolled the virtues of the "Patriot Way".

Adding to that the old axiom that haters are going to hate. Brady has success, a supermodel wife, and is adored in New England in such a way that probably very few athletes have ever enjoyed in the history of sport. All the while, he couldn't give two fire-roasted ****s about making himself accessible to the media.

Manning, as I've stated in another thread, has carefully cultivated his media image and though he controls the message, he provides the media with access. And if there is anything the NFL wants, it's more exposure, so Manning plays better for the PR machine. He married his all-American girlfriend (as opposed to a Brazilian international magnate) and makes funny commercials.

In any event, none of it really matters to me. Brady has won three Super Bowls, been to five, and has brought a ton of joy to my life. I've had a hell of a time watching him. I'm past the point of worrying about what others think. I'm getting to the point where I like the hate.

Nikolai said:

Well, I appreciate your change of tone from the first post you made. The first post was pretty trollish, and I thought you were a Jest fan at first, but I can see you're trying to steer things in a more positive direction.

Here's the thing that you may not have realized. You've pretty much stepped into the gladiator pit with a bunch of grizzled veterans of days gone by when Colts fans used to come in here with very similar arguments and comments. They rarely stuck around for long when it became obvious that the facts didn't fit their perceptions.

The perception of Brady as the "darling of the NFL" is a relic of a time long past. There was a day when Brady WAS that guy. I'd say that came crashing down in 2005 or so when it became apparent that, even after all those Super Bowl wins, he wasn't going to be so buddy-buddy with the media. And Belichick certainly wasn't going to fill the void to give fans access to the Patriots. I remember those days when people extolled the virtues of the "Patriot Way".

Adding to that the old axiom that haters are going to hate. Brady has success, a supermodel wife, and is adored in New England in such a way that probably very few athletes have ever enjoyed in the history of sport. All the while, he couldn't give two fire-roasted ****s about making himself accessible to the media.

Manning, as I've stated in another thread, has carefully cultivated his media image and though he controls the message, he provides the media with access. And if there is anything the NFL wants, it's more exposure, so Manning plays better for the PR machine. He married his all-American girlfriend (as opposed to a Brazilian international magnate) and makes funny commercials.

In any event, none of it really matters to me. Brady has won three Super Bowls, been to five, and has brought a ton of joy to my life. I've had a hell of a time watching him. I'm past the point of worrying about what others think. I'm getting to the point where I like the hate.

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Fair enough and I agree. I gotta remember I'm in hostile grounds. The first post wasn't at all attempting to throw shade. Just saying hey now, we both have QBs that are good for ratings and get hated by other teams. I see Peyton like Lebron and Brady like Kobe, not in terms of greatness, but just as both are legendary, but have different personalities. Lebron's kind of the media darling, that's great but cares about the media and public opinion (Peyton). Kobe's the guy with killer instinct, has more rings, and has a screw you if don't like it mentality (Brady).

As to Peyton & Brady evidence is that they're friendly competitors with respect & no dislike of each other.
The only expressed hatred Brady has is for the NY Jets.

And of course, his coach/GM.

runandgun said:

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure you're hearing what I was saying. Everyone is flaming Peyton and saying he got the rules changed, but if your theories are true, it was actually Polian that got the rules changed.

2ndly the 2 instances I brought up with the tuck rule and the low hit rule was in no way saying the Pats complained/ paid off the league/ the league is fixed. I never said any of that and think that's ridiculous. My only point in bringing any of that up was just to say as an outside fan, although many believe Peyton gets a lot of love from the league, many also believe the Patriots do as well. Those two examples weren't saying the Pats lobbied for them or unfairly got them. I understand that may not go over well here, but just throwing it out there, many people outside of the New England area believe the NFL thinks of Brady as their post child.

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We are well aware that the perception is that Brady and the Patriots are favored, and they receive a lot of grief for that from rival fans and the media. Just take for example how Brady was pretty much singled out recently for not taking a strong stance in the Peterson situation. He gets plenty of critisism for that. Manning however receives very little, except for maybe in New England. If Brady said what Manning just did about overtime rules they would have an hour long segment on ESPN by now.

runandgun said:

Again no dirt being thrown, but
1. the Pats vs Raiders Tuck Rule is the most notorious instance of the rule being used, can't be denied. I never once said it was created just for that game, but rarely called and I believe never called in the playoffs prior to that, I know what I'm talking about.

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Rarely called, but was called to the detriment of the Pats earlier in the season versus the Jets. The call was a big play in the game in which they lost, which caused them to change playoff standing, thus leading to the match up with the Raiders that playoff season.

BSR said:

We are well aware that the perception is that Brady and the Patriots are favored, and they receive a lot of grief for that from rival fans and the media. Just take for example how Brady was pretty much singled out recently for not taking a strong stance in the Peterson situation. He gets plenty of critisism for that. Manning however receives very little, except for maybe in New England. If Brady said what Manning just did about overtime rules they would have an hour long segment on ESPN by now.

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Manning screams at Julius Thomas for screwing up on a pick. Nothing is said of it.

Brady shows some disappointment at a rookie WR running the wrong route and it's a segment on ESPN and NFL network.

josh24 said:

Peyton Manning's performance and comments have made effect on changes in some rules more than once:

1) Illegal Contact - 2004

Colts lose 2003-04 AFCCG to Patriots; Manning gets intercepted 4 times.

The following year, the illegal contact penalty becomes a "point of emphasis" for the 2004 season. Bill Polian, Colts' GM and Team President, pushed this issue.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1771047

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...phasis-on-illegal-contact-didnt-seem-logical/

2) OT rules - 2010

Colts lose on 2008-09 WC weekend to Chargers in OT; SD wins toss, receives, and wins the game with a FG, not giving the ball back to Peyton.

Just before 2009 season, new OT rules were submitted, but rejected by the NFL competition committee. However, a year after this (and after Brett Favre loss on a similar situation) , the rule passes, and new OT rules are adopted.

Peyton complained after the Chargers win in WC weekend:

Players and coaches voted on a poll that same year after the fans and media started questioning OT rules:

When asked about the possibility of new OT rules, Bill Polian tried to make a compelling argument with an example of his own team, saying this:

Just to "convince" himself a few years later:

You can put this one on both him and Favre, but unlike Manning, Favre didn't talk.

3) Umpire position rule - 2010

In 2010, NFL adopted a new position for the umpires: Umpire moves from behind the defensive line to 15 yds behind the offensive line. In the preseason, Peyton gets flagged twice for Illegal Snap, as he gets frustated because he cannot establish no-huddle offenses appropiately, being forced to wait for the officials to get into their positions.

Illegal Snap (loss of 5 yds) - Rule 4, Section 6, Article 5b

This rule was made to protect officials, rather than to make games slow:

Peyton and the Colts complained a lot about this rule in the preseason:

Here's Peyton complaining, along with ESPN announcers supporting him on changing the new rule:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/09000d5d81a0f22c/Manning-sounds-off-on-new-rule

Finally, they get something out the league: the position is moved from 15 yds to 12 yds.

4) Illegal contact - 2014

Just like 2004, NFL adopts the illegal contact, and defensive holding as their "point of emphasis" for the year, the same year Peyton's offense gets mauled by a great defense.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/7/...-contact-defensive-holding-points-of-emphasis

After the illegal contact rule was created in 1978, it has been revisited only twice, both because of Peyton's failures in the playoffs:

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