Idle Thoughts – a reflective edition

woolster22 · Sep 24, 2014

Oops... tenchar

Robdude · Sep 24, 2014

I always look for your comments after a game. Thanks for posting again

ATippett56 · Sep 25, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
LOTs are drafted high but interior OLs are drafted from 4th to UDFA.

Oh really? Care to explain the New England Patriots drafting center Damien Woody in the first round of the 1999 NFL Draft or left guard Logan Mankins in the first round of the 2005 NFL Draft?

AzPatsFan said:
The Pats won Superbowls or went to them with UDFA starters, like Andruzzi, Robinson-Randle Boldin, Neal, Hochstein et cetera.

Joe Andruzzi was in his fourth season, as well as second NFL team, during the 2001 NFL Season. Mike Compton was a 3rd round selection in the 1993 NFL Draft. Russ Hochstein was a 5th round selection in the 2001 NFL Draft.

Stephen Neal did not become a full time starter for the New England Patriots until his fourth season in the NFL.

Ryan Wendell spent two seasons on the New England Patriots practice squad and two years as a backup offensive lineman before starting 16 regular season games as the starting center for the New England Patriots.

Dan Connolly spent two seasons on the New England Patriots practice squad and did not start his first game for the New England Patriots until four years after he signed as an undrafted free agent by the Jaguars in 2005.

AzPatsFan · Sep 25, 2014

So? The UDFAs being auditioned, have all had a year on the Pats PS, and other tryouts before elsewhere. Devey for example is 26, was with the Ravens, before the joining the Pats. He is hardly just a few months out of college and similar experience to the guys on your post. Besides I did NOT mention Compton. He was an unemployed vet FA, who everyone thought was done, when he came to the Pats.

I didn't say ALL non LOTs are drafted in the 4th or later, as you seem to impute. There are always exceptions. Mankins would probably have played LOT for the Pats, if they hadn't found Light in the Second Round a year earlier. So they converted a Tackle to a superb LG. Something you seem to think is unheard of doing. (I think they were not sure Light was the real thing, too)

Woody was over-drafted and never lived up to his First Round draft. He has had along career as an above average player. He had problems with long snapping, and was moved from Center to Guard, another conversion.

Why are you so damn argumentative?

supafly · Sep 25, 2014

RelocatedPatFan said:
As for Dennard, it seems we're always waiting for him to get healthy.

I shared my (unpopular) thoughts about the unfortunate situation of Alfonzo Dennard constantly being injured or dinged up during the long months of the spring/summer, and as you can imagine---they went over like a lead balloon.

The truth of the matter though, is that he has only started in 17/35 games since he came here, so I think we're seeing a bit of a pattern in what is now the 3rd year.

Hopefully, he can shake the injury bug soon, because he's obviously talented and seems to have a very nice upside. Let's hope when he comes back it's for good.

ATippett56 · Sep 25, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
So? The UDFAs being auditioned, have all had a year on the Pats PS, and other tryouts before elsewhere. Devey for example is 26, was with the Ravens, before the joining the Pats. He is hardly just a few months out of college and similar experience to the guys on your post.

For every Andruzzi, Neal, Ashworth there was a Mruczkowski, Tucker, Yates. There are no guarantees with Devey and based on his play this season, Devey belongs on the bench.

AzPatsFan said:
I didn't say ALL non LOTs are drafted in the 4th or later, as you seem to impute. There are always exceptions.

For every Dan Koppen, there is was a Rich Orhnberger.

AzPatsFan said:
Mankins would probably have played LOT for the Pats, if they hadn't found Light in the Second Round a year earlier. So they converted a Tackle to a superb LG. Something you seem to think is unheard of doing.

Oh really? Who played left tackle for the New England Patriots during the 2005 NFL Season after Matt Light broke his leg? Matt Light was drafted in the second round of the 2001 NFL Draft while Logan Mankins was drafted in the first round of the 2005 NFL Draft. So much for the year earlier bull crap.

AzPatsFan said:
Woody was over-drafted and never lived up to his First Round draft. He has had along career as an above average player. He had problems with long snapping, and was moved from Center to Guard, another conversion.

Damien Woody was named to the Pro Bowl in 2002.

AzPatsFan said:
Why are you so damn argumentative?

You are the poster with all the DEFINITIVE STATEMENTS.

AzPatsFan · Sep 25, 2014

ATippett56 said:
For every Andruzzi, Neal, Ashworth there was a Mruczkowski, Tucker, Yates. There are no guarantees with Devey and based on his play this season, Devey belongs on the bench.

When did I say he didn't belong on the bench? I said he earned a shot, got it, and failed.

For every Dan Koppen, there is was a Rich Orhnberger.

You implied you can't possibly start rookie 4th round Centers. I gave you a counter example. Orhnberger is still in the league with the Chargers, BTW. Halapio didn't cut it either, he didn't make the roster. But Stark and Fleming both made the 53, and have already played some. As did Devey, who will end up on the PS is my guess.

Oh really? Who played left tackle for the New England Patriots during the 2005 NFL Season after Matt Light broke his leg? Matt Light was drafted in the second round of the 2001 NFL Draft while Logan Mankins was drafted in the first round of the 2005 NFL Draft. So much for the year earlier bull crap.

You are correct. I stand corrected. I was confusing him with the Canadian pick Adrian Klemm who was always injured and drafted in the second round the year before Light.

Damien Woody was named to the Pro Bowl in 2002.

I said he had an Above Average career. That doesn't mean he was a bum, nor a repetitive ProBowler Wasn't that appearance as an alternate?

You are the poster with all the DEFINITIVE STATEMENTS

I don't want to trade personal insults with you. .

Mike the Brit · Sep 25, 2014

Belichick's worst mistake? Adalius Thomas and it's not close ... unless you count trusting Mangini.

AzorianPats · Sep 25, 2014

ATippett56 said:
Oh really? Care to explain the New England Patriots drafting center Damien Woody in the first round of the 1999 NFL Draft or left guard Logan Mankins in the first round of the 2005 NFL Draft?

Joe Andruzzi was in his fourth season, as well as second NFL team, during the 2001 NFL Season. Mike Compton was a 3rd round selection in the 1993 NFL Draft. Russ Hochstein was a 5th round selection in the 2001 NFL Draft.

Stephen Neal did not become a full time starter for the New England Patriots until his fourth season in the NFL.

Ryan Wendell spent two seasons on the New England Patriots practice squad and two years as a backup offensive lineman before starting 16 regular season games as the starting center for the New England Patriots.

Dan Connolly spent two seasons on the New England Patriots practice squad and did not start his first game for the New England Patriots until four years after he signed as an undrafted free agent by the Jaguars in 2005.

Woody was original drafted to be a Center, and im pretty sure Mankins was a LT coming out of college.

AZpats is right. Very rare you see guards drafted early. Tackles and Centers are much more important.

Jackson 2 · Sep 25, 2014

Mike the Brit said:
Belichick's worst mistake? Adalius Thomas and it's not close ... unless you count trusting Mangini.

A bad one, for sure, but I'd have to go with drafting AH.

Kontradiction · Sep 25, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
-

I don't understand. What 's the matter? Your posts are usually thoughtful, and spot on. All you have contributed to the Offensive line discussions in *****ing, nullities, and non sequitors.

The interior O line got old in 2013. The sacks soared from the 20s to an enormous 40. The weakest and oldest players needed to be replaced. The Pats are doing so, and unfortunately it will take time to do so,but it is a long season. There is time to do it, even if it takes half a season.

I get it. Devey is not the next coming of Ogden Pace, and you don't like him. He earned a shot in practice, got it, and failed. Your advice to cut him improves things, exactly how? Now I think he is now a blooded reserve who can play both tackle and guard as a substitute

Brady was rushed to throw, and got sacked 40 times in 2013. Your stats confirm the problem. Many, but not me, blamed the rookie receivers. He didn't have as much time then to throw, than he has had this season, as surprising as it appears to be to many. Equal 7 sacks in 2013 and 2014 over 3 games, but slightly more hits in 2013 than this year.

Solder's problems are independent of the interior changes. His talent and history indicates he will return to his high level of play, eventually.

History also indicates a Tackle can adapt and play G. Many Gs simply don't possess the physical talent to play Tackle though. Cannon will adapt. He has great size, has proven to be a tough run blocker, and has some short area mobility, and proven pass blocking ability too.

The bolded would be true if they were leaving Solder on an island more often than not. But that has rarely been the case in his professional career. They're sliding protection to his side, which is evidenced by the amount of two on one's that were taking place against Oakland (which were still being lost).

Nehalem · Sep 25, 2014

Jackson 2 said:
A bad one, for sure, but I'd have to go with drafting AH.

I think it was handing him an extension with a $12.5m signing bonus, after only 2 years in the league, a month after he murdered 2 people.

From a draft perspective the Pats got far more production from AH, as a 4th round pick, than they got from Dowling a 33rd pick.

Brady6 · Sep 25, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
He could have said the old vets, they won for me, I'll stick with them. That would have ensured Brady was continually beat up the entire 2014 season without recourse. Now he planned a surgery to fix it and drafted the pieces to do so.

I think his biggest mistake was sticking with his old SB vets a year too long. back in '08 and '09.

Brady's pain now, is the pain a surgery patient undergoes to get cured.

He could have got out in front of it and not had to make an either or decision, you act as if Belichick had just 2 options, he did not. Last season I bet you were suggesting Brady’s pains with the WRs were short term like a surgery as well, to this day, the problems still exist with the WRs, so guess he is on the long-term recovery program for that surgery, huh. We nickel and dime players like Mankins so we can blow money on players like Amendola, Arrington, and Wilson, etc.

supafly · Sep 25, 2014

Jackson 2 said:
A bad one, for sure, but I'd have to go with drafting AH.

I'm going to step a bit outside the box and say:

1) Trading a 3rd round pick for Duane Starks

vs.

2) Losing draft picks and money to both Haynesworth and Chad Johnson in the summer of 2011

I'm actually okay with the Adalius Thomas move, considering that he almost helped to win us a Super Bowl in 2007, then was having a very good year until he broke his arm in 2008 (something that couldn't be predicted and was no one's fault).

He wasn't quite an enormous failure in my eyes until the 2009 season, when he became a malcontent and a locker room cancer. I don't believe that he cared for playing the strong side, if I remember correctly. At any rate, I don't blame Belichick too much for taking a chance in free agency. He was versatile. I think it's just one of those situations where it unfortunately didn't work out and he needed to go. Of course the dead cap hit was significant if I remember correctly.

Mike the Brit · Sep 25, 2014

supafly said:
Of course the dead cap hit was significant if I remember correctly.

Yes. They backed up a f***ing Brinks Truck for him, to quote.

Duane Starks wasn't great -- he looked like a man trying to find his platform on Tokyo Station when he can't read Japanese. But he didn't make those around him worse.

ATippett56 · Sep 25, 2014

Brady6 said:
He could have got out in front of it and not had to make an either or decision, you act as if Belichick had just 2 options, he did not. Last season I bet you were suggesting Brady’s pains with the WRs were short term like a surgery as well, to this day, the problems still exist with the WRs, so guess he is on the long-term recovery program for that surgery, huh. We nickel and dime players like Mankins so we can blow money on players like Amendola, Arrington, and Wilson, etc.

A long term solution was not addressed at the interior offensive line positions in the 2011 NFL Draft. Stephen Neal retired in March 2011 and Dan Koppen was already 31 years old (DOB Sept 12, 1979) at time of the 2011 NFL Draft. In the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff Game against the NY Jets, Dan Connolly was abused by old man Shaun Ellis. Ras-I Dowling (2011 NFL Draft, #33 overall) was one of the worst draft selections (a complete WTF pick) in the Belichick era and did not address the interior of the offensive line. Meanwhile, Stefen Wisniewski, OC/OG from Penn State, was still on the board with the #33 overall selection in the 2011 NFL Draft.

As for surgery, if Jon Halapio was suppose to replace Dan Connolly at the right offensive guard position this season, the patient is on life support with the pastor administering last rites.

RayClay · Sep 25, 2014

ATippett56 said:
A long term solution was not addressed at the interior offensive line positions in the 2011 NFL Draft. Stephen Neal retired in March 2011 and Dan Koppen was already 31 years old. In the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff Game against the NY Jets, Dan Connolly was abused by old man Shaun Ellis. Ras-I Dowling (2011 NFL Draft, #33 overall) was one of the worst draft selections (a complete WTF pick) in the Belichick era and did not address the interior of the offensive line. Meanwhile, Stefen Wisniewski, OC/OG from Penn State, was still on the board with the #33 overall selection in the 2011 NFL Draft.

As for surgery, if Jon Halapio was suppose to replace Dan Connolly at the right offensive guard position this season, patient is on life support with the pastor administering last rites.

Koppen was abused by big nose tackles his whole career, Wendell was worse. I'm looking forward to seeing what stork can do.

RayClay · Sep 25, 2014

Brady6 said:
He could have got out in front of it and not had to make an either or decision, you act as if Belichick had just 2 options, he did not. Last season I bet you were suggesting Brady’s pains with the WRs were short term like a surgery as well, to this day, the problems still exist with the WRs, so guess he is on the long-term recovery program for that surgery, huh. We nickel and dime players like Mankins so we can blow money on players like Amendola, Arrington, and Wilson, etc.

You want to keep Mankins and not sign some of Revis, Chandler Jones, Solder, Hightower, etc.?

Brady6 · Sep 25, 2014

RayClay said:
You want to keep Mankins and not sign some of Revis, Chandler Jones, Solder, Hightower, etc.?

I don't think Mankins being here for 2014 would have prevented that. Jones and Hightower are signed through 2016.

ATippett56 · Sep 25, 2014

RayClay said:
You want to keep Mankins and not sign some of Revis, Chandler Jones, Solder, Hightower, etc.?

At the level Solder is playing this year, the New England Patriots may be looking to draft an offensive tackle in the first round of the 2015 NFL Draft.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...4768877/penalty-watch-better-on-special-teams

Penalties are just the tip of the iceberg for Solder.

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