Bad Drafting=Mediocre Results

Bruins29 · Sep 23, 2014

And where is the OP? Posts this crap and then disappears? At least try to defend your opinion.

Ivan · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
And for the record billy bust

Not sure why anyone would give you even a moment of credibility after this?

First Ballot Hall of Famer, most likely the Greatest Coach in NFL history and you want to call him Billy Bust?

It really is time for your second stay here to end......later Gymrat.

rookBoston · Sep 24, 2014

Revisionist drafting is a fool's hobby.

The fire and brimstone on this site, after Belichick could have had David Terrell but drafted Richard Seymour instead, has been conveniently forgotten. The fans who were dead wrong about flaming that pick have long since been forgiven. Why rehash ancient history?

The critics who roasted Belichick for drafting Shane Vereen when he could have taken Mikel Leshoure or Daniel Thomas, have been rather quiet about the wisdom of pick.

Mysteriously, they have also stopped criticizing Belichick for failing to trading up for Fletcher Cox or Michael Brokers in 2012. Instead, he used the picks to draft Chandler Jones and Donte Hightower. Lucky, I guess?

There were about as many people saying "We should have drafted Vinnie Curry" as there were saying "We should have drafted Lavonte David". But, given that Curry has 27 career tackles and David has 240, the only thing we hear anymore is how we should have drafted Lavonte David... how I knew it all along... Belichick is obviously an idiot at drafting.

There's no shortage of people who knew all along that Ras-I Dowling would be a bust, and are way too happy to share what they would have done instead. Somehow they always pick the players who've gone on to be wildly successful in the NFL. Crazy.

The only Belichick first round pick that was universally loved, by fans and media alike, was Lawrence Moroney... who may be the worst of his first rounders since coming to Foxboro.

This team has averaged more than 12 wins over a span of 13 years. In that time, St Louis has been the great, then horrible, then mediocre. Indianapolis has been great, then horrible, then great again. Pittsburgh has been great then mediocre, then horrible. Seattle has been horrible, then even worse, then suddenly great. Denver has been good, then terrible, then great. And that whole entire time, New England has been elite-- for 13 years and counting.

There is nothing mediocre to discuss. This entire thread is lunacy.

Deus Irae · Sep 24, 2014

rookBoston said:
Revisionist drafting is a fool's hobby.

The fire and brimstone on this site, after Belichick could have had David Terrell but drafted Richard Seymour instead, has been conveniently forgotten. The fans who were dead wrong about flaming that pick have long since been forgiven. Why rehash ancient history?

The critics who roasted Belichick for drafting Shane Vereen when he could have taken Mikel Leshoure or Daniel Thomas, have been rather quiet about the wisdom of pick.

Mysteriously, they have also stopped criticizing Belichick for failing to trading up for Fletcher Cox or Michael Brokers in 2012. Instead, he used the picks to draft Chandler Jones and Donte Hightower. Lucky, I guess?

There were about as many people saying "We should have drafted Vinnie Curry" as there were saying "We should have drafted Lavonte David". But, given that Curry has 27 career tackles and David has 240, the only thing we hear anymore is how we should have drafted Lavonte David... how I knew it all along... Belichick is obviously an idiot at drafting.

There's no shortage of people who knew all along that Ras-I Dowling would be a bust, and are way too happy to share what they would have done instead. Somehow they always pick the players who've gone on to be wildly successful in the NFL. Crazy.

The only Belichick first round pick that was universally loved, by fans and media alike, was Lawrence Moroney... who may be the worst of his first rounders since coming to Foxboro.

This team has averaged more than 12 wins over a span of 13 years. In that time, St Louis has been the great, then horrible, then mediocre. Indianapolis has been great, then horrible, then great again. Pittsburgh has been great then mediocre, then horrible. Seattle has been horrible, then even worse, then suddenly great. Denver has been good, then terrible, then great. And that whole entire time, New England has been elite-- for 13 years and counting.

There is nothing mediocre to discuss. This entire thread is lunacy.

This is not all revisionist drafting. Many posters are on record with their picks, either beforehand or right/soon afterwards. However, and I say this with no hostility, but just in case you weren't aware, if you dislike threads such as this one, you can once again use the ignore thread function. Ian has restored it.

AzPatsFan · Sep 24, 2014

Deus Irae said:
This is not all revisionist drafting. Many posters are on record with their picks, either beforehand or right/soon afterwards. However, and I say this with no hostility, but just in case you weren't aware, if you dislike threads such as this one, you can once again use the ignore thread function. Ian has restored it.

I find it very convenient that only the successes are ever recalled, and not the recommended disasters. Rook is entirely correct about that. I have yet to say Anyone post saying they wanted to draft Ghoulston for example.

Its as useful as looking at the lottery winning numbers the next day and saying that I should have picked those. It changes absolutely nothing.

But then all the junior GM picks mean absolutely nothing anyway.

convertedpatsfan · Sep 24, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
And for the record billy bust didn't scout tom Brady, there was a time he listened to his scouts and was repeatedly told to take Brady. Also for the record, Brady should have went much higher, he was arguably the best QB that year. However teams didn't like that he had One year to grade him on. The other being he only played well that one year, teams thought it was a fluke since he sat behind all those other QBs. Out of time, have catching up to do now

What on earth are you talking about?

Brady was a 2-year starter at Michigan. As a junior, he led the team to a 10-3 record, finishing #12 in the AP poll after defeating higher-ranked Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl. As a senior, the team went 10-2 and finished 5th after beating Alabama in the Orange Bowl. Brady played very similar both years (completion percentage, YPA were almost identical) with a positive change in the TD to INTs being the only difference (+4 to +8).

I'm a huge Brady fan and even I don't think any normal rational human being could argue he was the best QB that year. If you look at the top 10 passing figures in college in 1999. Brady's list is on NONE of them. Completions, percentage, passer rating, yards, yards per throw, TDs, he's not in the top 10 anywhere, let alone #1. 5 QBs finished in the top 10 for voting for the Heisman in Brady's senior year, but he wasn't one of them.

For the record, Brady should have went much higher. He had a 3rd-round grade on him. But if you're going to criticize Bill for not drafting him sooner, you better do the same for EVERY ****ING TEAM IN THE LEAGUE passing on him multiple times. How do you not see that??? It's so obvious. It's like you're an 11-year old troll. Maybe you are.

It's amazing that we drafted him at all though. We had 3 QBs at the time, including a Pro Bowler we would eventually sign to a record $103M deal, a veteran backup with starting experience, and a developmental prospect with much more upside in Michael Bishop. And Brady didn't even beat out Bishop in 2000; we carried 4 QBs. I don't think any Patriots team will ever carry 4 QBs again.

I know it's not mandatory, but it would be nice if you actually had some "facts" to back up your ********. If you're not sure what facts are, please use the link below.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=facts

manxman2601 · Sep 24, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
I find it very convenient that only the successes are ever recalled, and not the recommended disasters. Rook is entirely correct about that. I have yet to say Anyone post saying they wanted to draft Ghoulston for example.

Its as useful as looking at the lottery winning numbers the next day and saying that I should have picked those. It changes absolutely nothing.

But then all the junior GM picks mean absolutely nothing anyway.

I hold my hands up on Jamell Fleming, Leon McFadden and Ronnell Lewis all the time. Nothing wrong with getting draft projections wrong, even the best do that.

Deus Irae · Sep 24, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
I find it very convenient that only the successes are ever recalled, and not the recommended disasters. Rook is entirely correct about that. I have yet to say Anyone post saying they wanted to draft Ghoulston for example.

Its as useful as looking at the lottery winning numbers the next day and saying that I should have picked those. It changes absolutely nothing.

But then all the junior GM picks mean absolutely nothing anyway.

As Manx has pointed out about himself, people here actually do point/admit to their misses.

The "hindsight" and "revisionist" arguments have their place, usually when targeted to specific people, but they are simply not accurate when applied as general statements about the entire board.

mayoclinic · Sep 24, 2014

manxman2601 said:
I hold my hands up on Jamell Fleming, Leon McFadden and Ronnell Lewis all the time. Nothing wrong with getting draft projections wrong, even the best do that.

You're one of the best, both at picking them and at admitting when they don't work out.

I loved Ronnell Lewis and Jamell Fleming, FWIW.

I think Grid is one of the best draft analysts (professional or amateur) I've ever seen, but I'm always reminded of this scouting report in 2012 on Alshon Jeffery:

Alshon Jeffrey is a GOD-awful Navigator, combining sloppy Route Running with hideous Fluidity and awful Verticity ~ no Burst in'is Breaks.

And of course you've heard the rampant rumors about his recent weight gain. Even if they aren't true, Jeffery is a walking Red Flag. Bust!!

http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2014...ical-yankees-2012-scouting-reports-split-ends

We all make mistakes, and it takes guts to put your opinion out in the open and then stand by it.

manxman2601 · Sep 24, 2014

mayoclinic said:
You're one of the best, both at picking them and at admitting when they don't work out.

I loved Ronnell Lewis and Jamell Fleming, FWIW.

I think Grid is one of the best draft analysts (professional or amateur) I've ever seen, but I'm always reminded of this scouting report in 2012 on Alshon Jeffery:

http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2014...ical-yankees-2012-scouting-reports-split-ends

We all make mistakes, and it takes guts to put your opinion out in the open and then stand by it.

alshon Jeffrey reminds me that we haven't heard from Wilfork75 in a while.

Ivan · Sep 24, 2014

mayoclinic said:
You're one of the best, both at picking them and at admitting when they don't work out.

I loved Ronnell Lewis and Jamell Fleming, FWIW.

I think Grid is one of the best draft analysts (professional or amateur) I've ever seen, but I'm always reminded of this scouting report in 2012 on Alshon Jeffery:

http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2014...ical-yankees-2012-scouting-reports-split-ends

We all make mistakes, and it takes guts to put your opinion out in the open and then stand by it.

The problem is that those doing the bulk of the bashing never do so. beyond that they are not in the business of building a team that actually has to compete and address impending contract and cap issues as well as aging players and filling out all special team needs, they simply pick binkies at obvious needs and scream when belichick doesn't follow suit.

mayoclinic · Sep 24, 2014

Ivan said:
The problem is that those doing the bulk of the bashing never do so. beyond that they are not in the business of building a team that actually has to compete and address impending contract and cap issues as well as aging players and filling out all special team needs, they simply pick binkies at obvious needs and scream when belichick doesn't follow suit.

All true. So why pay attention to them? Do you think that BB actually wastes a second of thought on what any of us think? "Ignore the noise" is the team mantra.

90% of the board (or more) is a negative energy sink. It could just as well be named "Patstrolls". There's as much negative stuff about the team as you'll find on GangGreen or Jets Insiders. It's a weekly exercise to ignore it all. Personally, the only reason I stay on the board is for the other 10% or less who actually contribute useful insights.

The bashers aren't going to go away. Ignore the noise, my friend.

Ivan · Sep 24, 2014

mayoclinic said:
All true. So why pay attention to them? Do you think that BB actually wastes a second of thought on what any of us think? "Ignore the noise" is the team mantra.

90% of the board (or more) is a negative energy sink. It could just as well be named "Patstrolls". There's as much negative stuff about the team as you'll find on GangGreen or Jets Insiders. It's a weekly exercise to ignore it all. Personally, the only reason I stay on the board is for the other 10% or less who actually contribute useful insights.

The bashers aren't going to go away. Ignore the noise, my friend.

Great idea, and definitely something I have to get better at. As I have said before I have no problem with the criticism, I think that a good portion of it is warranted, however I don't like the trolling and the posters who use this place to grind on their personal agenda's, and I have a strong tendency to give them sh.t when they do so. I will see if i can ignore more of it and keep the focus on real football discussion.

patsfaninpa · Sep 24, 2014

I think we blew a chance to have a great team in the 2011 draft. We entered with two firsts, two seconds and two thirds. We drafted; Solder, Dowling, Vereen, Ridley and Mallett. BB made a great trade with NO to get their first in 2012 and ended up with Chandler Jones. After trading up a bit. We could have had Kerrigan and Wilkerson in 2011 with a very slight trade up to get Kerrigan. Could have had Randall Cobb or Torrey Smith instead of Vereen. We really needed a wr that year. And, didn't draft one early at all. Kind of mind-boggling.

I was a big fan of Jeffrey. in 2012 with the way the trades worked. Could have had him and Levonte David instead of Hightower and Tavon Wilson. It is what it is.

ctpatsfan77 · Sep 24, 2014

patsfaninpa said:
I was a big fan of Jeffrey. in 2012 with the way the trades worked. Could have had him and Levonte David instead of Hightower and Tavon Wilson. It is what it is.

David for Wilson is one thing, but I can't say, at this point, that Hightower over Jeffrey was a clear mistake, especially given the Patriots' needs in 2012 and how well Hightower's been playing this year.

patsfaninpa · Sep 24, 2014

ctpatsfan77 said:
David for Wilson is one thing, but I can't say, at this point, that Hightower over Jeffrey was a clear mistake, especially given the Patriots' needs in 2012 and how well Hightower's been playing this year.

We should have rebuilt the defensive front in 2011. That was a fabulous draft for defensive linemen. We had the ammo and didn't do it. Mayo, Manxman, OTG, Rook, Patchick and all the draftniks thought for sure that's the direction we were headed. Wouldn't have needed to double dip in 2012. I like Hightower too. As a 3-4 ILB. Which was the strongest part of our defense in 2011 with Mayo and Spikes. Really, a head scratching pick since we were moving to the 4-3. I still don't think he's a great fit. I said the day he was drafted that he was better the closer he was to the LOS. I think he's fine at LDE in our 4-2-5. He can blitz or jam the tight end. We kinda wasted 2 years though.

JackBauer · Sep 24, 2014

patsfaninpa said:
I still don't think he's a great fit.

Odd, considering he's probably been the second best defensive player this year.

patsfaninpa · Sep 24, 2014

JackBauer said:
Odd, considering he's probably been the second best defensive player this year.

I'd rather have a pure pass-rusher opposite Chandler Jones.

Ring 6 · Sep 24, 2014

patsfaninpa said:
I'd rather have a pure pass-rusher opposite Chandler Jones.

No, you said you would rather have Lavonte David.
Highotwer doesn't play 'opposite' Chandler Jones.

patsfaninpa · Sep 24, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
No, you said you would rather have Lavonte David.
Highotwer doesn't play 'opposite' Chandler Jones.

I said Jeffrey and David instead of Hightower and Wilson. So, yeah.

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