Things About to Get Ugly in Baltimore

patchick said:

That's easy: No. It's well-established that you can't let victims of domestic abuse determine punishments for their attackers. Too many corrupting influences: fear, love, shame, economic dependency, being convinced by the abuser that they "deserved it," etc.

In the Jonathan Dwyer case, Dwyer's wife assured the police that her husband had nothing to do with her broken nose and everything was just fine. But according to the new allegations, he had a gun and had threatened to kill himself in front of their children unless she lied to the police and sent them away.

Is it possible that Ray Rice had never before laid a hand on a woman before a single alcohol-fueled moment he deeply regrets? Absolutely. Do I believe that must be true because his victim said so? Nope.

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Respectfully, disagree here. Lots of formulations treat the victim as the most important person in the case and solicit their opinion as to how the case should proceed. I don't think it's an ironclad rule, and I agree that there are many cases, e.g. with terrified or uncooperative victims, where the victim's stated wishes are not the primary driver in the case, but still: determining the victim's take is and should be part of the process. Especially in cases where the victim is being controlled too much and taking their agency away adds to the problem. If Janay Palmer wants the assault she experienced not to be public, I personally see no problem at all including her wishes in crafting a response, including withholding information from the public if that is what she prefers.

betterthanthealternative said:

Regardless of what did and didn't happen here, the fact that there is a new statue of Ray Lewis at their stadium, and that he is now doing commentary on TV for NFL games, is the greatest outrage of all of this.

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I don't really watch the morning NFL shows, but my Twitter timeline tells me Ray Lewis just went on a nonsensical rant. Did he really just say this?:

Chad Finn ‏@GlobeChadFinn 10m
"Some things you can cover up." -- Ray Lewis, just now, completely out of context.

Richard Camembert said:

Respectfully, disagree here. Lots of formulations treat the victim as the most important person in the case and solicit their opinion as to how the case should proceed. I don't think it's an ironclad rule, and I agree that there are many cases, e.g. with terrified or uncooperative victims, where the victim's stated wishes are not the primary driver in the case, but still: determining the victim's take is and should be part of the process. Especially in cases where the victim is being controlled too much and taking their agency away adds to the problem. If Janay Palmer wants the assault she experienced not to be public, I personally see no problem at all including her wishes in crafting a response, including withholding information from the public if that is what she prefers.

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I believe @patchick's point was that we shouldn't be putting that burden on the victim. Yes, give victims a voice, but—for all the reasons she cites—it shouldn't be the only one.

Mike the Brit said:

I've got to disagree. I really liked the time I spent in Baltimore.

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I was thinking the same thing.

Uncle Rico said:

I don't really watch the morning NFL shows, but my Twitter timeline tells me Ray Lewis just went on a nonsensical rant. Did he really just say this?:

Chad Finn ‏@GlobeChadFinn 10m
"Some things you can cover up." -- Ray Lewis, just now, completely out of context.

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Yup, he said it.

http://deadspin.com/ray-lewis-some-...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

ESPN's decision to hire this guy gets more and more awkward. Such a hypocrite.

If you've decided who the "victim" is you've already decided the case.

Uncle Rico said:

Yup, he said it.

http://deadspin.com/ray-lewis-some-...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

ESPN's decision to hire this guy gets more and more awkward. Such a hypocrite.

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Hell, it sounds like he is more annoyed in the Ravens inability to cover this up than in Rice hitting his wife.

"Some Things You Can Cover Up ... Some Things You Can't. Right now it's a sad day for me. Because of the reputation I left in the organization. This isn't it". I mean. What the hell was he thinking saying that?

i cringe anytime lewis speaks.

Pitta going down with same bad hip...bye bye balt

Bobsyouruncle said:

If you've decided who the "victim" is you've already decided the case.

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What, exactly, is your point here? It's pretty damn rare that you have a domestic dispute where one party is injured, the other isn't, but the party that got injured is the guilty party.

Steve Bisciotti says the OTL story was "manufactured" by Ray Rice's camp:

Baltimore Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti responded Monday to an ESPN investigative report into the team's handling of Ray Rice's domestic abuse case, saying that a significant amount of the information in the story was "manufactured" from accounts provided by the running back's inner circle.

Bisciotti addressed the ESPN "Outside the Lines" report during a 45-minute news conference, saying he believes that Rice's camp is attempting to "build a case for reinstatement."

"The majority of the sources [from the report] are people that work for Ray," Bisciotti said. "Almost everything in there is anonymous, but it's clear from the subject matter that it's Ray's attorney, it's Ray's agent, it's Ray's friends.

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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...s-espn-ray-rice-report-manufactured-rice-camp

More reasons why it is generally a bad idea to name your child after your current football employer.

supafly said:

I don't normally disagree with much of what you say, but I don't really see why we can just automatically cross the Baltimore Ravens off of the list of contenders because of a cover up about a player who's no longer there?

If I remember correctly, many predicted the same for our teams a couple of times over now.

Baltimore sure looked pretty good last Thursday in their divisional game vs PIT. They have a viable enough running game, an improved passing game (Pitta, Daniels, Torrey Smith, Steve Smith), and a defense that is stingy enough to remain competitive. I think they can certainly compete for a wildcard spot, with something around a 9-7 record myself.

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I give you credit for sticking to your guns after being wrong about the ravens last year.

mayoclinic said:

Steve Bisciotti says the OTL story was "manufactured" by Ray Rice's camp:



http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...s-espn-ray-rice-report-manufactured-rice-camp

More reasons why it is generally a bad idea to name your child after your current football employer.

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Bisciotti can claim this story was manufactured all he wants by Ray Rice's camp, but it does not change how horrible he and his organization look.

Sources are anonymous for a reason, and if a journalist outed them, then that journalist would no longer have sources.

One of the things in that ESPN piece that sticks out most for me was the meeting between Ray Rice and the Commish. The Ravens brass told him to be completely honest, because of the Commish's disdain for dishonesty, and according to the ESPN piece, Rice was.

However, after September 8th, the Ravens and the Commish start spinning it as if Rice was not completely honest, or ambiguous... Bisciotti made an absurd reference during his press conference yesterday about "open hand slap" vs. "punch" (as if style points matter!).

The bottom line is, what would Ray Rice gain by being disingenuous back in June? He wanted to resume his career in the NFL. The Ravens and the Commish would have us believe that because Ray Rice wanted to play football so badly, he decided not to be totally forthcoming? Ludicrous.

Finally, I had to chuckle after hearing Bisciotti lament about how unfairly the journalist (a pulitzer prize winner) treated him by not giving him and the Ravens enough time to defend themselves (just like the Ravens gave the press enough time yesterday by calling a conference at the last minute to prevent the press from bringing in the big guns).

I am inclined to believe that he knew exactly what the journalist was doing. If Biscotti truly believes he was wronged or lied to or uniformed, then by all means he should lawyer up and sue and get everything and everyone under oath. Sue Disney. But of course, he won't, because he does not want all of this in the public record.

things i took away from the Bisciotti press conference:

John Harbaugh had been seen as the one person who was looking good in all this when it was reported that he wanted to cut Rice immediately, Turns out that Harbaughs are all the same money trumps reputation every time, and so John now claims that he did NOT want to cut rice right away.

Bisciotti's defense appears to be the same defense that of the rich kids who killed a bunch of people while driving drunk and then did no prison time because of affulezna(the "i don't understand consequences because i've always been rich") defense.

In my mind the ravens have just cemented thier place as being the scummiest of all scummy teams in the history of all sports.

AndyJohnson said:

I give you credit for sticking to your guns after being wrong about the ravens last year.

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I don't know what the hell you're talking about? All I said last year was that BAL would remain competitive amongst the "doom and gloom" predictions about them losing all of their free agents and big named players.

Considering that they were still in the playoff hunt down the stretch in the last game of the season, I'd have to highly disagree with you that I was "wrong" about much of anything. I pointed to their mediocre 9-7 record that won them the SB the year before and stated that they'd likely be right around the same record. I also stated that their SB winning defense wasn't even that great, and claimed that they could even be better on that side of the ball.

They ended up at 8-8, so they were ONE game off of their pace at the year before.

And by the way, if I had a nickle every time you've been wrong I'd be quite wealthy--so you're just showing your usual level of arrogance by trying to make things up. Anyone who actually read the thread that predicted the "demise" of the Baltimore Ravens would easily point out that I did not even really go out of my way to make any kind of bold predictions whatsoever, but I'm guessing that you probably already know that.

@AndyJohnson ---It would be extremely short-sighted to look at a team who has been highly competitive, yet with mediocre records in a division of great parity, and state that they are automatically out of the hunt due to a suspended running back.

If you actually agree with that ridiculous statement than you are not only something of an arrogant bully, but you have way less football knowledge than I ever assumed....

I've always thought that you were a very intelligent poster with flashes of actual humanity, but were probably just one of those guys who had a strong position with every single subject known to man. Your recent comments have made me reassess my position. You have done absolutely nothing to push the conversation further by attempting to call people out, and your pages and pages of back and forth arguing do this forum no good in any way.

what about ME???????

do I have any flashes of humanity???please...please tell me I haven't become the monster I so feared would happen one day...I'm begging you...

Joker said:

what about ME???????

do I have any flashes of humanity???please...please tell me I haven't become the monster I so feared would happen one day...I'm begging you...

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I was actually referring to Andy's comments in the bereavement/in memoriam section of the forum, where he made a couple of nice comments on the passing of my brother and dad. I was not only surprised to see any kind of humanity and kindness, but flattered and thankful that he took the time to comment. I was touched, and his thoughts certainly meant a lot to me.

Other than that, he pretty much goes out of his way to attempt to turn just about everything in a pissing match with anyone and everyone who will get sucked into it. I am far from the only person who believes this, but my guess is that he somehow takes a measure of pride and arrogance in this fact.

well...I like you, pal....of course that's like the kiss of death around here lately...so...sorry.

Joker said:

well...I like you, pal....of course that's like the kiss of death around here lately...so...sorry.

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My hope is to see Andy Johnson go about his business, and that we can go back to sporadically responding to each others' posts every now and then. I certainly do have a level of respect for him, as much as I think he attempts to bully those who don't agree with him.

The pages and pages of back and forth with various posters that I see on an everyday basis are exhausting for everyone. When there's a difference of opinions, it's literally difficult to remember what the original point of contention was since it quickly webs into about 20 other "problems" that pop up in the meantime.

As far as you--as much as we tease each other from time to time, I think you already know how I feel judging by my commitment to show you the utmost respect, even during rare times of disagreement or difference of opinion.