Amendola

RIpats88 said:

1. problems in the red-zone. having a bigger bodied receiver with a higher catch radius.
2. Dobson appeared to be more than a downfield threat last year, catching balls all over the field.

Lafell has more catches as a slot guy than amendola right now

Dobson has the highest upside of our receivers. But Belicheck seems to want to play musical chairs with him/thompkins. or, maybe he's not totally right with that foot..

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Dobson did not, in fact, catch balls all over the field. He's an outside guy. That's part of the point.

PatsFan2 said:

Vollmer was very good before his injury last year thought he looked a Elite Right Tackle in the making. But his play is so bad in 2014 you have wonder if he's not fully recovered from his injury. Right now I would consider putting Marcus Cannon back at RT and sit Vollmer a bit. Also McDaniels need to be a little more innovative with he O-Line like rolling the protection right or left from time to time to slow down the rush to help out Brady.

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Nobody on that line is playing better than Vollmer, so why on Earth would you want to put him on the bench?

50-yard-line said:

Who are these mythical people pimping Amendola and bashing Mini-tron? You probably can't remember the amount of times because they're all in your head.

Ivan has certainly never bashed JE, nor have I. I did see lots of people bashing him for being injury-prone before last year - many of those were probably the same people now bashing DA.

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Edelman has been injury prone. Pointing that out is not bashing him. The same is true of Amendola.

Deus Irae said:

Edelman has been injury prone. Pointing that out is not bashing him. The same is true of Amendola.

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Agreed, but there were people who got a little excessive in hammering the guy(s) on those fronts. NFl players get hurt. A lot.

50-yard-line said:

Agreed, but there were people who got a little excessive in hammering the guy(s) on those fronts. NFl players get hurt. A lot.

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Those guys have been like porcelain. No sense in not pointing it out, because it matters. Edelman's injury history may be the only reason Amendola's still on the team, for example.

Deus Irae said:

Those guys have been like porcelain. No sense in not pointing it out, because it matters. Edelman's injury history may be the only reason Amendola's still on the team, for example.

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Amendola's contract is the reason he is still on the team, I doubt Belichick would have released him for playing through a serious injury but they weren't going to take a cap hit to get rid of him this year anyways. I think they will ask for a restructure even if he starts playing really well and puts up 70-80 receptions, but it will be a release next offseason if he doesn't. When they signed Amendola it was with the expectation they would continue to run the high powered fast paced spread offenses they had been running. Edelman was considered injury prone and unreliable and they offered him next to nothing to return on a one year deal, so Amendola was considered Welker's long term replacement. As it worked out however Hernandez was arrested for multiple murders and Amendola got injured right out of the gate, so Edelman had to become the go to guy because Gronk blew his knee out, Hernandez was gone, and Amendola was hurt and limited as such, and to his credit Edelman turned himself into a really good and reliable slot receiver. The high powered NASCAR offense became a thing of the past as Brady had lost over 85% of his receptions from that offense, and now the current state of their OL has made it almost impossible to go to spread sets on a regular basis, so Edelman has won the job Amendola was signed to play and the two WR sets have him on the bench as they want to use guys who are more suited outside the hashmarks to complement him. As a result of all of this Amendola has really become a high priced back-up and probably won't see the field that much unless they can get their OL to play well enough to go back to the spread offenses on a regular basis.

the only way Amendola returns to the Patriots next season is if he plays really well the rest of the way and is willing to take a big reduction in pay, and if he does play well then he will likely refuse that to go out on the market again.

Danny Amendola - 3 receptions, 7 targets, 16 receiving yards.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2014.htm

If Amendola keeps up that pace, he won't be on the roster next season.

Deus Irae said:

Edelman has been injury prone. Pointing that out is not bashing him. The same is true of Amendola.

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Edelman appears to be training harder over the past 2 offseason and it seems to be helping him with his durability, much of being able to play through the rigors of an NFL season is the players training, muscle pulls, strains, etc. a lot of those injuries are avoidable.

KontradictioN said:

I got jumped on in the offseason for saying Solder benefitted from Mankins just as much as Wendell, but it's true. Without Mankins, he's getting exposed. Vollmer isn't playing particularly well for that matter either.

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The problem with the Mankins trade is the trickle down affect. It moves Cannon to LG when he would have been better suited to be at RG, it forces them to use a player like Devey at RG, and it keeps Connolly in the starting lineup when he is probably best suited to be a primary backup at this point in his career.

This would have been a very good OL:

LT- Solder
LG- Mankins
OC- Connolly
RG- Cannon
RT- Vollmer

50-yard-line said:

Who are these mythical people pimping Amendola and bashing Mini-tron? You probably can't remember the amount of times because they're all in your head.

Ivan has certainly never bashed JE, nor have I. I did see lots of people bashing him for being injury-prone before last year - many of those were probably the same people now bashing DA. There's a whole bunch of people on this forum who do nothing but complain and whine and find a hated player and pile on ridiculously. Don't know any of them who have supported Amendola, whose biggest boosters here include Ivan, myself and Supafly - and all three of us have repeatedly stated that they either need to find a way to use the guy 9and he needs to step up) or they need to cut him at the end of the year.

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I do not think anyone was bashing Edelman intentionally, but during training camp and preseason there were posters saying they did not know if Edelman was better than a healthy Amendola, or that they could see Amendola catching more footballs than Edelman does this year, etc. Many people suggested last season and all offseason that Edelman was only successful because he was the only healthy WR. That is not bashing in the sense that they are saying “Edelman is garbage” it is more bashing in the sense that they are devaluing what Edelman did last season and his level of talent.

As far as pimping Amendola, I am going to stay off the Amendola topic as a whole, and just let his play speak on my behalf moving forward, that aside we both know people have been talking Amendola up since March 2013 and just stopped a few weeks ago, and now are attempting to pretend it never happen. If you really want to go through some threads from the preseason, you will see firsthand that people were “pimping him” nobody has been pimping him the past 3 weeks, I will give you that.

As far as what Ivan said, honestly my biggest issue is that Ivan seems to think any opinion other than his is something he should get angry at and develops hatred towards the poster over it. If he does not like hearing about Amendola, why the **** is he always in the Amendola threads, there are like 25 threads open right now, instead he is in here complaining about people complaining. That makes no sense, and really just indicates to me that Ivan is not on this board to have sincere discussions about football, because if he were he would not be choosing the activities he does.

Brady6 said:

The problem with the Mankins trade is the trickle down affect. It moves Cannon to LG when he would have been better suited to be at RG, it forces them to use a player like Devey at RG, and it keeps Connolly in the starting lineup when he is probably best suited to be a primary backup at this point in his career.

This would have been a very good OL:

LT- Solder
LG- Mankins
OC- Connolly
RG- Cannon
RT- Vollmer

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I see very little improvement from Wendell to Connolly. Sub out Connolly with Stork and I think that would have been a good enough OL to allow the Pats to open things up in the passing game a bit more over the last three weeks.

KontradictioN said:

I see very little improvement from Wendell to Connolly. Sub out Connolly with Stork and I think that would have been a good enough OL to allow the Pats to open things up in the passing game a bit more over the last three weeks.

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While I would not stroke out in surprise if Stork got the nod this weekend, I don't expect it. I don't think they want his first start to be against Dontari Poe. That would be little short of a suicide assignment, for both Stork and Brady.

Brady6 said:

The problem with the Mankins trade is the trickle down affect. It moves Cannon to LG when he would have been better suited to be at RG, it forces them to use a player like Devey at RG, and it keeps Connolly in the starting lineup when he is probably best suited to be a primary backup at this point in his career.

This would have been a very good OL:

LT- Solder
LG- Mankins
OC- Connolly
RG- Cannon
RT- Vollmer

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Agreed on your trickle down theory. Strongly disagree with the bolded part above

The line would be better. It would not be "very good" though. That same line wasn't anywhere near "very good" last year--it was mediocre at best.

Sadly I would welcome mediocre over the abortion of an OL this year.

Brady6 said:

Why is the offensive line to blame for everything? Edelman is having a great season why can’t are other WRs do the same, why do we have to wait for the OL to gel for them to be good? That just does not make sense to me, it seems like people are passing the buck to the weakest link.

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Kontra nailed it pretty well a couple of posts later. Brady is sticking with his binkies, and that ain't good. Now, you have a point too - could Previous Brady read faster, throw faster, thread the ball through defenders when there's no open man? Maybe.

Does anybody have a complete list of targets through week 3? It's easy to find catches... I've bolded the receivers:

Wk 3
Edelman 10/84
LaFell 4/46
Gronk 3/44
Wright 1/20
Vereen 4/17
Thompkins 1/16
Ridley 1/7

So, 2 to Edelman for every 1 to anybody else, with Amendola and Dobson on the milk carton, in week 3.

Wk 2
Edelman 6/81
Gronk 4/32
Develin 2/17
Dobson 1/13
Hoomanetc. 1/6

Edelman ratio among receivers: 6:1. Clearly not a lot going to second reads here.

Wk 1 - we lost in wk 1. TFB got sacked and contacted a lot in wk. 1. This is important.
Edelman 6/95
Gronk 4/40
Thompkins 5/37
Vereen 5/35
Amendola sighting! 3/16
Wright 3/15
Ridley 2/7
Bolden 1/4

Edelman ratio: 6:8 among receivers (6 out of 14 receiver completions).

Now I know it's 3 different defenses, but the lesson from Miami if you're Tom Brady is don't hold onto the ball or you'll die (4 sacks - anybody know how many non-sack knockdowns?)

Like you say, I can't necessarily lay all this at the O-line's door. I see them lose their best pass protector, I see the line playing badly, and I see the outcome in week 1... and I wonder exactly what kind of masochistic son of a ***** would try to be a classic pocket passer in said circumstances, standing in there and progressing through his reads on the off chance that Dobson or Thompkins beat their guys (especially when he throws balls where he is assuming they'll zig and they're assuming he'll zag - we've seen at least one bad miscue like that, I believe Thompkins (?) wide open and likely to score, and the ball in the "wrong place," depending who you're asking.)

So what will this team bring on offense? What's the ceiling?

Probably higher than what we've seen thus far, unless the ultimate answer is (ominous music)... Brady has fallen off the cliff.

My main thought about the "cliff" argument is that we're not seeing a ton of interceptions. We're seeing 0 interception games, 1 TD, 250 yards passing... basically "game manager" numbers, not "can't judge the distance/no accuracy" numbers.

It's the ultimate team game, for sure. Chemistry could snap into place with Thompkins/Dobson/maybe even Amendola. The O line could get it together at some point. (God we miss ya Scar.) Or, maybe this Defense says "We want our own damn ring" like Baltimore in 2000. Or as some say without saying it, Brady's "cliff" is defined by his comparative immobility, in the face of an O-line which buys him less time. Do something superhuman or you're not Brady. Or, as others say, but it does not look like it to me, Brady is absolutely the worst quarterback evah and can't hit anybody except his binkies because he cannot throw to the sidelines or past 15 yards. At least they've stopped complaining that he throws the ball too hard for normal mortals to catch it, like they used to.

Just seems to me like it's time in the pocket that's missing. I'm not a smart football guy, just calling it as I see it.

PatsFanInVa said:

Kontra nailed it pretty well a couple of posts later. Brady is sticking with his binkies, and that ain't good. Now, you have a point too - could Previous Brady read faster, throw faster, thread the ball through defenders when there's no open man? Maybe.

Does anybody have a complete list of targets through week 3? It's easy to find catches... I've bolded the receivers:

Wk 3
Edelman 10/84
LaFell 4/46
Gronk 3/44
Wright 1/20
Vereen 4/17
Thompkins 1/16
Ridley 1/7

So, 2 to Edelman for every 1 to anybody else, with Amendola and Dobson on the milk carton, in week 3.

Wk 2
Edelman 6/81
Gronk 4/32
Develin 2/17
Dobson 1/13
Hoomanetc. 1/6

Edelman ratio among receivers: 6:1. Clearly not a lot going to second reads here.

Wk 1 - we lost in wk 1. TFB got sacked and contacted a lot in wk. 1. This is important.
Edelman 6/95
Gronk 4/40
Thompkins 5/37
Vereen 5/35
Amendola sighting! 3/16
Wright 3/15
Ridley 2/7
Bolden 1/4

Edelman ratio: 6:8 among receivers (6 out of 14 receiver completions).

Now I know it's 3 different defenses, but the lesson from Miami if you're Tom Brady is don't hold onto the ball or you'll die (4 sacks - anybody know how many non-sack knockdowns?)

Like you say, I can't necessarily lay all this at the O-line's door. I see them lose their best pass protector, I see the line playing badly, and I see the outcome in week 1... and I wonder exactly what kind of masochistic son of a ***** would try to be a classic pocket passer in said circumstances, standing in there and progressing through his reads on the off chance that Dobson or Thompkins beat their guys (especially when he throws balls where he is assuming they'll zig and they're assuming he'll zag - we've seen at least one bad miscue like that, I believe Thompkins (?) wide open and likely to score, and the ball in the "wrong place," depending who you're asking.)

So what will this team bring on offense? What's the ceiling?

Probably higher than what we've seen thus far, unless the ultimate answer is (ominous music)... Brady has fallen off the cliff.

My main thought about the "cliff" argument is that we're not seeing a ton of interceptions. We're seeing 0 interception games, 1 TD, 250 yards passing... basically "game manager" numbers, not "can't judge the distance/no accuracy" numbers.

It's the ultimate team game, for sure. Chemistry could snap into place with Thompkins/Dobson/maybe even Amendola. The O line could get it together at some point. (God we miss ya Scar.) Or, maybe this Defense says "We want our own damn ring" like Baltimore in 2000. Or as some say without saying it, Brady's "cliff" is defined by his comparative immobility, in the face of an O-line which buys him less time. Do something superhuman or you're not Brady. Or, as others say, but it does not look like it to me, Brady is absolutely the worst quarterback evah and can't hit anybody except his binkies because he cannot throw to the sidelines or past 15 yards. At least they've stopped complaining that he throws the ball too hard for normal mortals to catch it, like they used to.

Just seems to me like it's time in the pocket that's missing. I'm not a smart football guy, just calling it as I see it.

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Very insightful post. I cannot disagree with anything you wrote even if I wanted to.

The patriots had 3 WR's on the field on 48% of the offensive plays. It would seem that Amendola would have had more production.

Ivan said:

Amendola has a problem as long as they continue to go with two WR's because Edelman has shown he is a superior player, period, and they are going to use a bigger receiver on the other side, so unless they are using three WR's or Edelman goes down he is going to be watching from the sidelines much more than we ever expected him to be. I still think we will see more wide open offense once they get the OL figured out but i doubt they will ever go back to the spread offense full time, so 5 wide will be an option but will no longer be a staple of this offense.

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Deus Irae said:

While I would not stroke out in surprise if Stork got the nod this weekend, I don't expect it. I don't think they want his first start to be against Dontari Poe. That would be little short of a suicide assignment, for both Stork and Brady.

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I'd rather them start experimenting with the interior OL sooner rather than later, personally. We know what we have at C in Connolly and Wendell but we don't know what we have in Stork. Either way, Brady has been taking hellacious shots through the first three weeks of the season anyway. If putting Stork on the field also means that Connolly replaces Devey, then I'm fine with that. Whether or not that would begin this week, though, is certainly up for debate.

Brady6 said:

The problem with the Mankins trade is the trickle down affect. It moves Cannon to LG when he would have been better suited to be at RG, it forces them to use a player like Devey at RG, and it keeps Connolly in the starting lineup when he is probably best suited to be a primary backup at this point in his career.

This would have been a very good OL:

LT- Solder
LG- Mankins
OC- Connolly
RG- Cannon
RT- Vollmer

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IMO Cannon is better suited on the bench as a injury fill in that would hopefully never see the field. I don't get why they would trade the best OL on the team pretty much just to free up 6 million that wont get used this year

Stork》》》》》 Wendell.

Connolly》》》Devey

Cannon needs to improve, or they might need to look outside help.

Solder needs to improve.

Vollmer nees to improve.

patsfan-1982 said:

IMO Cannon is better suited on the bench as a injury fill in that would hopefully never see the field. I don't get why they would trade the best OL on the team pretty much just to free up 6 million that wont get used this year

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I disagree on Cannon I think he is a solid OL and could be an excellent RG with some time. I agree with Mankins I do not think it was good idea either.