Coming to an Understanding: Optimists and Chicken Littles

Ivan said:

In that case pretty much everyone here is an "underwear dweller" because there are only a few who believe you are a patriot's fan, and no one puts much stock in what they have to say.

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well....I never asked what everyone believes, but I am sure you have......as you have a knack for avoiding logical reasoning

FourierSeries said:

Here is something to be optimistic about: Pats have not allowed a TD in 7 quarters.

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They haven't scored an offensive TD in the 2nd half year this year (6 quarters). Sorry to do this but just showing the flip side to tie in the thread title

The question is not whether the answer lay in the middle between optimists and chicken littles, because that's a truism. The question is whether the signal-to-noise ratio of the board falls below minimum acceptable criteria because certain people like to rain bombast on others without recourse to reason and because other folks have lost patience with one another. I know that I have finally resorted to the use of the ignore function simply to save time wading through the vitriol to find the substance. I encourage those who can't help but be drawn into pointless arguments to do the same, for their own peace of mind (although I do appreciate the sentiments of folks who feel it is their civic duty to not let the crazies run our favorite asylum).

juny said:

They haven't scored an offensive TD in the 2nd half year this year (6 quarters). Sorry to do this but just showing the flip side to tie in the thread title

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....and that is a trend that if it continues, will lead the team to missing the playoffs.

I know for a fact I am more on the negative but I do try to put thought in my posts. You do need defense and BB has addressed that somewhat. Defense has issues but overall they are pretty good. The NFL has changed a bit and is geared more toward offense. BB simply has not addressed this at all. I don’t understand for the life of me why for the second year in a row that Brady still has to take on the job of molding Thompkins and Dopson. It is beyond absurd to me. However maybe just maybe there is a chance that the Offense clicks. Josh Mcdaniels figures out what something where Amendola starts catching passes like he did in game one of last years Bills game and Thompkins and Dopson turn into legit receivers.
What about the offensive line? The offensive for the most part is one man against one man. Right now those players that are supposed to be protecting Brady are getting their asses beat almost every game. It is not like offense or defense where you can draw up some schemes to mask some issues. How can Dave DeGuglielmo fix this? Tell the guys to try harder? The offensive line cannot be fixed because they don’t have the players. This is going to be an ongoing issues all season. Some games they will be okay, others they will be a mess.

At this point I am frustrated because it is superbowl or bust. Plus don't the pats have like 13m in cap space? Sounds like I am spoiled but the reality is Brady is 37 and only has a few seasons left. This is not 2004 and he cannot do less with more. I just don’t think BB has put the pats in the best position to win it all.

Devers noted that the new O line has been spotty in the run game as well as against the pass. I concur. All too ofte t the newcomers are whiffing on their run blocks and resulting in the RBs taking minimal gains or outright yardage losses. More experience will help cure those drive killing plays too.

mayoclinic said:

It's only football, heresy though that may be, and the world won't end if we have a disappointing season.

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Ha! Ha! But of course it will feel that way ...

ensoul said:

Sounds like I am spoiled but the reality is Brady is 37 and only has a few seasons left. This is not 2004 and he cannot do less with more. I just don’t think BB has put the pats in the best position to win it all.

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Here's one for the chicken little side of the equation:

I believe that 2014 will end up being Tom Brady's last year as starting QB for the New England Patriots.

hwc said:

Here's one for the chicken little side of the equation:

I believe that 2014 will end up being Tom Brady's last year as starting QB for the New England Patriots.

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I predict this is the year you get outted as a troll.

Dozens of posts from you biting around the edges that Brady sucks.

Just you and a freelance Scottish hack needing a paycheck are predicting anything like this.

ensoul said:

I know for a fact I am more on the negative but I do try to put thought in my posts. You do need defense and BB has addressed that somewhat. Defense has issues but overall they are pretty good. The NFL has changed a bit and is geared more toward offense. BB simply has not addressed this at all.
I don’t understand for the life of me why for the second year in a row that Brady still has to take on the job of molding Thompkins and Dopson.
It is beyond absurd to me. However maybe just maybe there is a chance that the Offense clicks. Josh Mcdaniels figures out what something where Amendola starts catching passes like he did in game one of last years Bills game and Thompkins and Dopson turn into legit receivers.
What about the offensive line? The offensive for the most part is one man against one man. Right now those players that are supposed to be protecting Brady are getting their asses beat almost every game. It is not like offense or defense where you can draw up some schemes to mask some issues. How can Dave DeGuglielmo fix this? Tell the guys to try harder?
The offensive line cannot be fixed because they don’t have the players.
This is going to be an ongoing issues all season. Some games they will be okay, others they will be a mess.

At this point I am frustrated because it is superbowl or bust. Plus don't the pats have like 13m in cap space? Sounds like I am spoiled but the reality is Brady is 37 and only has a few seasons left. This is not 2004 and he cannot do less with more. I just don’t think BB has put the pats in the best position to win it all.

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I take issue with the highlights in your post.

WRs typically take three years to mature. All the WRs save Edelmen and Gronkowski have been with the team less than three years, even the vets like Amendola, La Fell and Wright. The lack of time provided by the transitioning Offensive line, as well as the lack of common experience, however, obscures their effectiveness, especially the WRs assigned to run deeper and more time consuming routes. The time just hasn't been there. The skill positions have more than ample talent.

I completely disagree with your statement that there is no talent on the Offensive line. BB prepared for this transition to a new generation of interior Offensive line, drafting the future interior players in the past draft, and promoting groomed Cannon to starter.

All have much better size and higher draft positions, possibly indicating better athletic ability over the their replacements, except for Canon versus Mankins. But Mankins is 33, and would have to be replaced soon. Ditto for Connolly, who is the same mid-thirties age. Belichick expressly went after and targeted Stork and Fleming, even trading to be in a position to select both. Cannon and Fleming outweigh Mankins and Connolly by easily twenty pounds each and a few inches in height. Across the entire Offensive line from tackle to tackle, it makes them as big as any equivalents in the League.

Belichick sought to rebuild his WRs last year; and drafted to be able to do so. There are now so many good receivers that not all can be active.

Belichick sought to rebuild the three interior positions of his Offensive line, and drafted and traded to be able to do so, this season. He planned a transition and kept all his past starters, until he could be sure the replacements were working out. Cannon was the surest thing, and BB traded Mankins to secure an adequate Hernandez type TE, the only missing piece in his receiving corps.

By comparison, BB did not anticipate having to respond to the injuries to Wilfork and Kelly last season on the DL and had to scramble and find some talent not on the team. He scrambled and found Sealver Siliga and Chris Jones who make fine reserves and maybe more; but he still had to draft Easley at DT for a future starter there.

I myself like watching a genius maestro at his work; and Belichick is highly entertaining and illuminating as he does so.

Actually, I think Brady is probably the best QB ever to play the game, certainly top 2 or 3. I just think it's over. Too many hits to stand in the pocket like a young QB in his prime. Who can blame him? At this stage in his career, the Pats haven't put enough good players (o-line, RBs, and WRs) around him to spark the old magic and they will never be able to. Happens to all the great QBs -- the players around them just aren't good enough anymore. The problem is that nobody can perform up to the legend in their late 30s, but it's impossible to scale back those legendary expectations (i.e. dink and dunk, game manager...). Brady is expected to be, and expects to be, superman. You can see the frustration in his press conferences.

I suspect he will get injured after one too many 8 hit games, Garoppolo will come in as a relief pitcher, and we've all seen that story before.

Rule #1: Never criticize Tom Brady as a source of any team problems.

If you do the following responses will soon follow:

If Belichick was doing his job
and
McDaniels was doing his job
and
the receivers were doing their job
and
the O-Line was doing their job

we all know that Tom Brady will be the best in the NFL therefore Tom Brady is not part of the issue.

I suspect he will get injured after one too many 8 hit games, Garoppolo will come in as a relief pitcher, and we've all seen that story before.

well, you got season tickets? I'll buy all your remaining games for 10 cents on the dollar. I'm a Patriots fan. Always have been. I root for the Patriots win or lose. I like certain players better than others but really, I could care less about player stats or what certain players do for me, for my life, as far as the fantasy world goes. I root for the TEAM. When I would want to WIN something, I'd bet MONEY on the outcome of games.

THAT is what makes me a socalled "homer".

What makes the chicken little is the constantly *****ing and moaning stats rat complaining about receptions and YPC, the pounding of the chest because of victories in some "fantasy" league and the resulting "KNOWER OF THINGS!!!!!" syndrome that comes from all this fantasy success. I think it's great that you've found something in life that makes you feel good about yourself. That is a good thing. It still does not change the FACT that whatever you THINK fantasy stats and fantasy wins mean, in the real world, they do not mean squat. Here is what means the most...in the brightest of days or darkest of nights in your team's ongoing history, YOU, the Patriots fan, LOVE YOUR TEAM. For better or worse, it is a marriage.

If the Patriots are causing you so much discomfort/grief/gnashing of teeth that you must constantly cry, biatch and moan about every single little wart, perhaps you should consider another team...or maybe your own private world where it's all unicorns and fuzzy wuzzy little furry rabbits.

Joker said:

If the Patriots are causing you so much discomfort/grief/gnashing of teeth that you must constantly cry, biatch and moan about every single little wart, perhaps you should consider another team...or maybe your own private world where it's all unicorns and fuzzy wuzzy little furry rabbits.

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I suggest they go watch something else...like.. The Kardtrashian. Then they will find out that its a whole level of paranoia and start to question society as a whole.

All I know is that since I started lurking this forum in about 2010, every game that hasn't been a blowout has resulted in massive amounts of whining. Yet, with the exception of a couple poor playoff performances, we tend to be right there every year. I'm sure we'll be there again this year, although where 'there' is is still up in the air. If the O-line can get it together, we have just as good a shot as any other team at reaching the super bowl

Then again we have almost $21 million in dead cap money if one includes playing like he's not here Amendola.

that's a lot of cash doing nothing.

Let's do this in pieces.

1. STs are fine. We could use a better long snapper and kickoff returns, but the former rarely actually hurts us and the latter is less likely to matter than before the rule changes.

2. The starting defense is fine, both by the numbers and to the eye test.

3. Defensive depth is questionable everywhere except at CB (or, if you like, DB in general). And like many excellent football players, our best defenders have had some issues going wire-to-wire for a full season. Jones wilted somewhat under this kind of usage last season. Wilfork is coming back from an injury, is aging, and plays a position that traditionally needs considerable rest anyway. McCourty, Revis and Mayo have all had injury issues in recent seasons. Hightower and Collins have not in their short careers performed to the level now hoped for from them. The same, most obviously, is true of Easley, should you believe -- as I do -- that he's another valuable talent. Even the JAGgish DTs get dinged up a lot.

4. We won't know how Brady and the receivers are until the OL gets and keeps it together. Maybe Rex Ryanish zone flooding will flummox them again; maybe it won't. (I'm guessing the latter.) But we won't know until Brady has had enough time with a fairly-consistently-clean pocket to establish rhythm/timing or not.

5. Swapping out Mankins and Wendell for other guys is a dimunition in run blocking. Yet the team seems to be emphasizing hard running early this season. I don't have even much of a guess as to how all that will play out.

ensoul said:

I know for a fact I am more on the negative but I do try to put thought in my posts. You do need defense and BB has addressed that somewhat. Defense has issues but overall they are pretty good. The NFL has changed a bit and is geared more toward offense. BB simply has not addressed this at all. I don’t understand for the life of me why for the second year in a row that Brady still has to take on the job of molding Thompkins and Dopson. It is beyond absurd to me. However maybe just maybe there is a chance that the Offense clicks. Josh Mcdaniels figures out what something where Amendola starts catching passes like he did in game one of last years Bills game and Thompkins and Dopson turn into legit receivers.
What about the offensive line? The offensive for the most part is one man against one man. Right now those players that are supposed to be protecting Brady are getting their asses beat almost every game. It is not like offense or defense where you can draw up some schemes to mask some issues. How can Dave DeGuglielmo fix this? Tell the guys to try harder? The offensive line cannot be fixed because they don’t have the players. This is going to be an ongoing issues all season. Some games they will be okay, others they will be a mess.

At this point I am frustrated because it is superbowl or bust. Plus don't the pats have like 13m in cap space? Sounds like I am spoiled but the reality is Brady is 37 and only has a few seasons left. This is not 2004 and he cannot do less with more. I just don’t think BB has put the pats in the best position to win it all.

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DOBSON. His name is DOBSON. How much of a fan do you need to be to know the names of the players?

Well, the KC game just provided the result the nay sayers had feared. After all, this lethargic offense may have been good enough to beat Oakland, but our concern is also focused on our ability to get future wins. Right now it's not looking so hot.

Obviously there is plenty of time to turn it around, but the fact is that 3 1/2 straight games of poor offense is now not a fluke but a bad trend.It would be a shame if the defense continues to fall apart too. Hopefully Browner can help in that department though.