The Pats' Defense vs. the Broncos' defense

Rob0729 · Sep 22, 2014

Ok, listening to Felger and Mazz (yes, I know that is my first mistake right there) and they are comparing the additions between the Pats and the Broncos and they are arguing that the Broncos' additions on defense has made their defense much better than the Pats' defense. I am lost by that.

I know the Pats have faced lesser offenses than the Broncos, but comparing the stats the Pats outclass them in almost every category. Although it is a little early to put too much stock in stats, but the disparity in some stats are significant. (only showing significant stats where there is a disparity because there are some stats especially on run defense where they are virtually the same with the Pats better on some and the Broncos better on others):

Total Defense
Pats - 2nd (272.7 YPG)
Broncos - 30th (390.7 YPG)

Scoring Defense
Pats - 4th (16.3 PPG)
Broncos - 16th (22.3 PPG)

Opposing Passer Rating
Pats: 2nd (57.4)
Broncos: 9th (86.9)

Interceptions
Pats - 1st (6) tied with Cincy
Broncos - 6th (3) tied with 9 other teams

Yard per Pass Attempt
Pats - 1st (5.4)
Broncos - 12th (6.9)

Passes allowed over 20 yards
Pats - 4th (6)
Broncos - 25th (11)

Third down percentage
Pats - 19th (43%)
Broncos - 26th (48%)

Touchdowns Allowed
Pats - 1st (4)
Broncos - 20th (8)

Now again, I know we are talking a different level of competition between the two teams. But I don't know how you can argue that the Broncos' defense is significantly better at this point based on the first three games. You can argue the Pats haven't been tested yet, but they still haven't allowed a TD since the opening drive of the Vikes game which is great no matter the competition.

All Felger and Mazz really had to argue it was better was their defense was nastier. Am I missing something?

Guts · Sep 22, 2014

The Broncos are a better team right now aside from that you're right our defense hasn't been tested for us to know were we stack up. But as an overall team Broncos are better at the moment

dales804 · Sep 22, 2014

Rob0729 said:
Am I missing something?

Yes. The argument they're making is irrefutable, by their standards. If you give them the stats you laid out, they'll just say the Broncos "look better" or nastier or whatever. Or they'll just say that DEN has played better offenses and that's why.

Dropping them from the dial was one of the best decisions I've made.

Rob0729 · Sep 22, 2014

ArchAngel007 said:
The Broncos are a better team right now aside from that you're right our defense hasn't been tested for us to know were we stack up. But as an overall team Broncos are better at the moment

But that isn't the argument. Yes, because of the Broncos' offense vs. the Pats' offense, the Broncos as a team is better. But that wasn't what I am talking about or what they were saying.

Sicilian · Sep 22, 2014

I mentioned this in another thread but it applies here as well. People have in their heads what they think a good defense looks like, and that image is the Seahawks defense in the Super Bowl. To them, that's the only way to have a great defense, and numbers mean nothing.

Unless the numbers say the Patriots defense stinks, then they point to the rankings.

But not the points allowed rankings, because those don't tell the whole story. They point to whatever ranking best makes their point this week.

So, in short, the Patriots defense stinks because they haven't played anyone good and they don't look "nasty".

Rob0729 · Sep 22, 2014

Sicilian said:
I mentioned this in another thread but it applies here as well. People have in their heads what they think a good defense looks like, and that image is the Seahawks defense in the Super Bowl. To them, that's the only way to have a great defense, and numbers mean nothing.

Unless the numbers say the Patriots defense stinks, then they point to the rankings.

But not the points allowed rankings, because those don't tell the whole story. They point to whatever ranking best makes their point this week.

So, in short, the Patriots defense stinks because they haven't played anyone good and they don't look "nasty".

Yeah, everyone wants a defense that smothers the QB on every play and is "nasty", but even when the Pats had an elite defense during the Dynasty Years they were not a team that smothered a QB. They picked their spots.

The funny thing is for all the talk about rushing the passer, the Pats have one less sack than the Broncos.

IllegalContact · Sep 22, 2014

QB's the pats have faced: Tannehill, Cassel, Carr....3 of the 5 bottom offenses in the NFL
QB's the broncos have faced: Luck, Alex Smith, Russell Wilson.....

comparing them at this point is a waste of time.....besides, the defenses will never face each other

JMC00 · Sep 22, 2014

Rob0729 said:
The funny thing is for all the talk about rushing the passer, the Pats have one less sack than the Broncos.

They also have 1 less QB hit than the Broncos.

JMC00 · Sep 22, 2014

IllegalContact said:
QB's the pats have faced: Tannehill, Cassel, Carr....3 of the 5 bottom offenses in the NFL
QB's the broncos have faced: Luck, Alex Smith, Russell Wilson.....

Except if Denver faced the same QBs and put up the same defensive stats the media would be lauding Denver has having arguably the best defense in the league.

VrabelJr · Sep 22, 2014

Broncos opponents: Colts, Chiefs, Seahawks
Patritos opponents: Dolphins, Vikings, Raiders

It's still only week 3 so it could turn out that the Dolphins, Vikings and Raiders all turn out awesome and the Colts, Chiefs and Seahawks end the season sucking - but I highly doubt that.

I'm eager to see this season play out! I'll complain when it's over... unless we hoist the Lombardi.

IllegalContact · Sep 22, 2014

JMC00 said:
Except if Denver faced the same QBs and put up the same defensive stats the media would be lauding Denver has having arguably the best defense in the league.

That's nothing new.....that's why I turn the sound down on the TV and turn on the radio

PP2 · Sep 22, 2014

Rob0729 said:
Ok, listening to Felger and Mazz (yes, I know that is my first mistake right there)

You always listen to them, and you always complain about listening to them.

When are you going to break out of this vicious cycle of torment?

Brady6 · Sep 22, 2014

Rob0729 said:
Ok, listening to Felger and Mazz (yes, I know that is my first mistake right there) and they are comparing the additions between the Pats and the Broncos and they are arguing that the Broncos' additions on defense has made their defense much better than the Pats' defense. I am lost by that.

I know the Pats have faced lesser offenses than the Broncos, but comparing the stats the Pats outclass them in almost every category. Although it is a little early to put too much stock in stats, but the disparity in some stats are significant. (only showing significant stats where there is a disparity because there are some stats especially on run defense where they are virtually the same with the Pats better on some and the Broncos better on others):

Total Defense
Pats - 2nd (272.7 YPG)
Broncos - 30th (390.7 YPG)

Scoring Defense
Pats - 4th (16.3 PPG)
Broncos - 16th (22.3 PPG)

Opposing Passer Rating
Pats: 2nd (57.4)
Broncos: 9th (86.9)

Interceptions
Pats - 1st (6) tied with Cincy
Broncos - 6th (3) tied with 9 other teams

Yard per Pass Attempt
Pats - 1st (5.4)
Broncos - 12th (6.9)

Passes allowed over 20 yards
Pats - 4th (6)
Broncos - 25th (11)

Third down percentage
Pats - 19th (43%)
Broncos - 26th (48%)

Touchdowns Allowed
Pats - 1st (4)
Broncos - 20th (8)

Now again, I know we are talking a different level of competition between the two teams. But I don't know how you can argue that the Broncos' defense is significantly better at this point based on the first three games. You can argue the Pats haven't been tested yet, but they still haven't allowed a TD since the opening drive of the Vikes game which is great no matter the competition.

All Felger and Mazz really had to argue it was better was their defense was nastier. Am I missing something?

If we field are best talent in the starting lineup I feel our personnel is significantly better. When you consider Dennard, Ryan, and Arrington will be the #3, #4, and #5 CBs we have a huge advantage.

Broncos
LDE-Derek Wolfe
DT-Sylvester Williams
NT-Terrance Knighton
RDE-DeMarcus Ware
SLB-Von Miller
MLB-Nate Irving
WLB-Danny Trevathan
LCB-Aqib Talib
RCB-Chris Harris Jr.
SS-T.J. Ward
FS-Rahim Moore

Patriots
LDE-Rob Ninkovich
DT-Dominique Easley
NT-Vince Wilfork
RDE-Chandler Jones
SLB-Donta Hightower
MLB-Jerod Mayo
WLB-Jamie Collins
LCB-Darrelle Revis
RCB-Brandon Browner
SS-Pat Chung
FS-Devin McCourty

The best advice I can give you is to stop listening to Felger and Mazz.. .

pats4life12 · Sep 22, 2014

I'm still going to go with the pats defense I think they are better and I can't see our defense getting any worse I can only see them getting better and better. I think by the mid point of this season our defense could be a very dangerous threat.

JMC00 · Sep 22, 2014

See people want to say look who the Pats have played then let's look at two teams Denver has played

Indy- If you are going to say the Pats defense is overrated based on who they played then Indy's offense is a little overrated. They've played Philly (#26 in defense)and Jax (#32 in defense), not to mention Denver is #30. So is Indy that good on offense or have they just not been tested?

Also let's not act like KC is some powerhouse offense Tennesse went into Arrowhead and smacked them around pretty good and as bad as the Pats have been on offense KC has put up only 20 yards more per game than the Pats.

pwes · Sep 22, 2014

Lets revisit this after game 6. I love how our defense is playing and fully believe they are capable of being top 5 over the season but I dont think 3 games is a large enough sample size for comparison.

AzPatsFan · Sep 23, 2014

Rob0729 said:
Ok, listening to Felger and Mazz (yes, I know that is my first mistake right there) and they are comparing the additions between the Pats and the Broncos and they are arguing that the Broncos' additions on defense has made their defense much better than the Pats' defense. I am lost by that.

I know the Pats have faced lesser offenses than the Broncos, but comparing the stats the Pats outclass them in almost every category. Although it is a little early to put too much stock in stats, but the disparity in some stats are significant. (only showing significant stats where there is a disparity because there are some stats especially on run defense where they are virtually the same with the Pats better on some and the Broncos better on others):

Total Defense
Pats - 2nd (272.7 YPG)
Broncos - 30th (390.7 YPG)

Scoring Defense
Pats - 4th (16.3 PPG)
Broncos - 16th (22.3 PPG)

Opposing Passer Rating
Pats: 2nd (57.4)
Broncos: 9th (86.9)

Interceptions
Pats - 1st (6) tied with Cincy
Broncos - 6th (3) tied with 9 other teams

Yard per Pass Attempt
Pats - 1st (5.4)
Broncos - 12th (6.9)

Passes allowed over 20 yards
Pats - 4th (6)
Broncos - 25th (11)

Third down percentage
Pats - 19th (43%)
Broncos - 26th (48%)

Touchdowns Allowed
Pats - 1st (4)
Broncos - 20th (8)

Now again, I know we are talking a different level of competition between the two teams. But I don't know how you can argue that the Broncos' defense is significantly better at this point based on the first three games. You can argue the Pats haven't been tested yet, but they still haven't allowed a TD since the opening drive of the Vikes game which is great no matter the competition.

All Felger and Mazz really had to argue it was better was their defense was nastier. Am I missing something?

Very interesting stats breakdown, which only goes to show that neither Felger nor Mazz knows their ass from a hole in the ground...

patriot1136 · Sep 23, 2014

Wait until after Talib and Ware get hurt then compare

patsfan-1982 · Sep 23, 2014

all I care about is how the pats defense does vs denvers offense hopefully in the AFCCG

RelocatedPatFan · Sep 23, 2014

I think your first mistake was assuming that Felgar and Mazz were trying to provided some thought provoking discussion about the 2 teams (defensively). and that they would employ an analytical framework to discuss the 2 teams in a rational manner.

The formula is to state/represent opinions as fact and to take such a stance in the face of obvious criticism to further drive up call volume and get fans (fandom) all twisted. Refute those with opposing viewpoints and heap praise on callers who agree as being objective.

Oh, the hypocracy

*I have to note the fact that I do not listen to these individuals or sports radio in general*

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