Official Pats - Raiders Post Game Thread....

I gotta laugh at all the Revis criticism. Are people serious? There were a few well-contested plays completed in his direction, and all of a sudden he sucks now? You gotta be kidding me. He's been one of our best players this year, as we expected. Passes are going to get completed against him during the course of the seasons. Get over it.

Now, the panic over the offensive line, that is real. You can't win if you can't win the trenches, and we are getting demolished in the trenches. Anything we try to run that isn't quick passing has pretty much been a fail. Even the quick passes there's been jailbreaks. It's tremendously bad. Solder is playing horribly, Devey sucks, Connolly & Cannon have been OK but without a beast like Mankins next to them, it's not cutting it. Vollmer has been OK with a few lapses. To me, Solder's play is the most disconcerting. I expected an undrafted rookie like Devey to struggle, but Solder is supposed to be a rock now, and he's been rather bad. Is he injured? It is confusing.

rdf63 said:

It looks like the Pats at times aren't playing like a team or have the typical motivation of a BB team. I really think the OL has to develop more motivation instead of letting TB get drilled like he has. I was hoping when the Pats drafted Stork and Fleming they would develop a real sound and extremely physical running game but it hasn't happened. The Pats lack a nasty attitude on the OLine and it has to change now. It is means making Stork your starting center and take a look at Free agents like Incognito and do it. Pats....do what you have to do that will allow you to gain 100 - 150+ yards running each game and the passing game with future HOF Tom Brady will fall into place.

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I'm afraid the Scar factor is central.

ctpatsfan77 said:

As a minor point, there's no kickoff after a safety; it's a "free kick" (essentially a punt) where the opposing team, as with a punt (but not a kickoff), has an absolute right to the ball. [Strictly speaking, it is a penalty—"illegal touching"—if a member of a kicking team touches a punt before a member of the receiving team does. The only penalty is that the kicking team gets possession at the spot of the foul, so it doesn't count as an "actual" penalty in the stats.]

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Actually, that's a really good point, as it does count as a defensive penalty and would give the Raiders one more play - just like it would if they punted the ball out-of-bounds on a free kick after a safety. Moreover, the clock doesn't start until somebody touches the ball, so an Oakland player could fall on it cleanly and not use up any time, also allowing them one more play.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Agree that Solder is not playing well, but clearly BB cutting your boyfriend Finch (as I and others readily predicted) has gotten to you

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manxman2601 said:

Sorry if this has already been pointed out, but Doug Kyed noted on Twitter that Hightower gave up four catches on five targets which doesn't sound great but it was for the grand total of zero yards. Talk about keeping the play in front of you. He also had two QB hurries and a hit too.

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Your information about Hightower is exactly why I wasn't too upset when Spikes left for Buffalo. Hightower can cover and is also a smart football player. Spikes was a terrific run defender but that is all he could do and he hurt the Pats defense with his coverage skills.

shmessy said:

I'm afraid the Scar factor is central.

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Agree

shmessy said:

Yes there IS a question, says Julian Edelman.

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I forgot to add Defensive mvp lol

deters said:

BB needs to cut Devey and sign Incognito.

Solder - Incognito - Stork - Connolly - Vollmer.

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It is unfortunate that right now, the situation does appear that dire.

Hart Lee Chung said:

Well...it wasn't the best performance but this was a win against a team with their HC on the hotseat and everything to play for. Scrappy in the trenches and the Raiders played tough. Not a great game for ESPN highlights, but a win none the less.

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yes, people seldom give the opponent credit. The opponents always give the Pats their best shot, they are always up for the game. I don't know what Oakland did in the previous games but they did some good things yesterday. The QB played very well. Give the Pats D credit for stopping their run. Oakland has Justin Tuck and yesterday he played like in the super bowls. They have Khalil Mack who is very fast, just ask Nate Solder. Overall it was a well coached game except when they went to the wildcat and screwed everything up. So I don't think Oakland is a crap team. If they play with the effort they showed yesterday they can be a tough out.

hwc said:

Could it be that Wendell is more important to the o-line than he is given credit for on PatsFan?

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No. Wendell is horrible and he showed that in pre-season when opposing teams 2s were abusing him..

BelichickFan said:

This thread is sad. I won't use the "B" word again or shmessy will channel his inner 5 year old girl and delete my post. Grow up shmessy.

It's tough to win NFL games. Take the win, move on, get better. There's a lot of positives lost among a not overly great performance :

- Ridley hasn't fumbled in something like 115 carries now.
- LaFell and Wright caught 5 passes between them.
- Gronk played his highest % snaps of the season and he'll NEVER drop a TD like that again.
- Stork going in when he did shows he's about ready, that wasn't garbage time like last week.
- Allen and Gostkowski are a dynamic kicking combination which is important with our current offense.
- Looks like we nailed the top of the 2012 draft with Chandler and Hightower.
- Since the first drive last week, basically two games, we've allowed just 3 FG.
- I know the above is against bad offenses but past Patriots defenses would allow more.
- When the Jets lose tonight we'll gain a game on the whole division.
- Browner will be back after one more game to make a good, physical D more good and physical.

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Right now its all about the O line and offensive coaching. I hope the Devey experiment is over. I know Solder, Connolly and Vollmer can play. I think with Stork or Wendell back at Center the line can stabilize.
McDaniel, why open with 3 passes with run personnel in a shotgun? 1st and goal, give the ball to Ridley, wait, Ridley is not in, give it to Bolden? 3rd and goal Gronk is leaving the field? Who is handling the personnel groupings?

ausbacker said:

It is unfortunate that right now, the situation does appear that dire.

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Whats John Hannah up to these days?

BelichickFan said:

This thread is sad. I won't use the "B" word again or shmessy will channel his inner 5 year old girl and delete my post. Grow up shmessy.

It's tough to win NFL games. Take the win, move on, get better. There's a lot of positives lost among a not overly great performance :

- Ridley hasn't fumbled in something like 115 carries now.
- LaFell and Wright caught 5 passes between them.
- Gronk played his highest % snaps of the season and he'll NEVER drop a TD like that again.
- Stork going in when he did shows he's about ready, that wasn't garbage time like last week.
- Allen and Gostkowski are a dynamic kicking combination which is important with our current offense.
- Looks like we nailed the top of the 2012 draft with Chandler and Hightower.
- Since the first drive last week, basically two games, we've allowed just 3 FG.
- I know the above is against bad offenses but past Patriots defenses would allow more.
- When the Jets lose tonight we'll gain a game on the whole division.
- Browner will be back after one more game to make a good, physical D more good and physical.

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To me and others this "whining" isn't about how the pats should have beaten the radiers by 30 pts, its about the future. If the Raiders defense could dominate this 0-line, whats going to happen when they play a good team with a good/great D-line, and how can it be fixed if at this point it can be.

p8ryts said:

Right now its all about the O line and offensive coaching. I hope the Devey experiment is over. I know Solder, Connolly and Vollmer can play. I think with Stork or Wendell back at Center the line can stabilize.
McDaniel, why open with 3 passes with run personnel in a shotgun? 1st and goal, give the ball to Ridley, wait, Ridley is not in, give it to Bolden? 3rd and goal Gronk is leaving the field? Who is handling the personnel groupings?

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The Red Zone play calling left me scratching my head. Why didn't we see Wright, Gronk, Thompkins and Lafell out there? That was part of the point of bringing in Wright and Lafell. To give Brady Red Zone Targets. Instead, they pull Gronk off the field, and throw it to Amendola on an out pattern where the ball was thrown too far ahead of him.. Had that been Thompkins or Lafell, then it's more likely that catch is made.

On a different note. I've seen opposing teams run plays that the Pats used to run. Like the direct snap to the RB. The pass to the QB.

The biggest issue, as others have pointed out, is the O-line. And there are several things wrong right now.

1) Connolly may be the better center, but he's still horrible at setting protections. I remember that when Waters was here, he was calling the protections because Connolly couldn't do it.

2) Devey showed decently during the pre-season as being a back-up, but he's clearly not ready for prime time.

3) Wendell is horrible. He can't pick up the twist or stunts. They always get by him because he always commits to something else.

4) Solder and Vollmer have both been playing poorly. Part of it is that the protections being called aren't correct, but that doesn't explain how they are getting beat so soundly the times they are lined up properly..

Triumph said:

There is only 1 pro football team in NE.

Therefore, no, the Pats are the only option.

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Well, then I guess you're stuck in a perpetual pit of misery. Terrible way to live. My condolences to you.

I'm starting to wonder about mcdaniels' IQ level.

Since this is the "official" thread (albeit with a lousy OP), I'll offer a few thoughts...

1. Same thing, different year. Every year, people think the Pats will walk to the Superbowl. It doesn't happen (2007 was an absolute anomaly). Two years ago, the Pats lost to Arizona at the Razor, then lost to Baltimore a week later. Last year, the crept out of Buffalo with a squeaky win, beat the Jets in one of the ugliest games ever in their home opener, and had a 3-game stretch in October where they could have been 0-3 (Bengals, Saints, and Jets) if not for a miracle play in the Saints' game. Oh, and they were almost beaten by Cleveland, too.

2. The Raiders have a bunch of vets. They aren't very good, but they've got some players. After week two, Woodson called them out, including himself. They came here and put their best foot forward on that field. They also have some players who really don't like New England (Tuck, Woodson). They gave it their best shot - and still, that game should not have been close.

3. Biggest concern is, of course, the OL. They need to get it right. Fix that and the offense will get going, but Brady needs to have some time back there, at least once in a while.

4. Second biggest concern is the DL. As great as Hightower, Jones and Wilfork have been, the Pats are thin. Did Easley play yesterday? How bad is Siliga hurt? I'd feel a lot better about this unit if htey hadn't dumped Tommy Kelly, or had brought in a good FA.

5. Still, the Pats haven't given up a touchdown since the opening drive of the Vikings' game. I don't care who you're playing, that's impressive. The secondary is VERY good, the front 7 is versatile. I just want one more big body to plug in. This is a VERY GOOD, top 5 defense.

6. Has to be said again, other than 2007, the Pats simply don't blow out many teams. but they find a way to win. The grousing here is absurd. I've got concerns, of course, but there's a lot of talent on this team. This is the best defensive unit they've had in many years, and on those plays where Brady wasn't getting clobbered, their offense looked pretty good. they'll get it together, and I suspect that LaFell and Tim Wright will be a big part of that with those 15-yard seam routes.

I'd be more concerned if I were a Denver fan, honestly. Demarius Thomas isn't right, Welker got crushed again yesterday and they're really missing Moreno. They are nowhere near where they were a year ago, offensively, and they've got an incredibly brutal schedule this year. Their defense looks pretty good right now, but they're front-loaded. A couple of injuries will really decimate that unit.

Seattle, too, isn't the same. They still might be the best team in football, but they're beatable. Like Denver, they seem to be playing under different rules than the rest of the league, but out of Seattle, they're very beatable.

Cincinnati and San Diego might be the two best teams in the AFC right now, but Cinci is a much stronger team at home than on the road, and San Diego lost a weapon yesterday.

Summary: it's early and the problems the Pats have are fixable (OL). If fixed, this team can go.

holyredeemer said:

Something is really off with this team. I cant really pin it on just one thing, or person. Its just....off. The playcalling, who's getting playtime, who's not. One week our D is rushing the passer like hell on wheels, the next wk we play against a rookie and can barely touch him. Its awkward to watch. Clearly, I hope for the best. By week 6, things will be coming together perhaps? I honestly dont know. I just hope the boys can hang in there and squeak out some hard fought wins by the time that happens.

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This OL just shut down JJ Watt without doubling him the week before. I wouldn't hang our heads on that matchup. I'd be more concerned with the secondary play. They have the worst WRs in the league.

jsull87 said:

Nobody else has been consistand on D? Chandler Jones, Wilfork and McCourty have. 100%.

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Chandler Jones in games 1 and 3 = Not good.

Wilfork - Game 1 = Poor performance.

McCourty = I can give you that one. He has been consistent.

Hightower has impressed me in every game so far. He seems to be everywhere, and he has made plays in every game.

Revis - I don't think he's been as consistent as I expected, but he hasn't been nearly as bad as has been portrayed.

Archeryaddict12 said:

Did you not see gronk slow up a little bit one the first miss. Gronk was not running full speed for a couple steps and that contributed to the miss.

The amendola pass was not a miss. It was out where only amendola could make a play and not where the defender had a chance for a 100 yard pick 6. That was Tom making sure we would get at least a few points.

He's lucky he didn't have 2ints is BS. The manning could have had 6 ints today which is BS argument also for example. Tom played as much mistake free football because 1 TO would have broke this team today. Brady played fine and should of had 2 Tds today with both to gronk. Tom can only be so effective with a bar oline. You saw when Tom had protection he found KT, weight and lafell, which isn't gronk or Jules. Right now its a matter of a competent oline solving the offensive issues IMO.

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The near-interception by Woodson in the middle of the field was a close call, but it would have been an amazing play. I would have preferred Brady looked elsewhere, but that turned out fine. On Amendola, I wish he would have not played it quite so safe, but that's the way he does it, and it's a huge part of the reason the Pats win the turnover battle year after year.

ensoul said:

Since this team is offensively challenged I was hoping that since the raiders were coming to town it was going to give the patriots an opportunity to work on their offense a bit. Get some guys going, try to pass the ball around to different receivers (Like the great legendary game changing receiver Dobson) but it never really happened.

The was easily the worst offense showing this season and its not close.
6 points offense
10 points special team.

After a pretty good showing last week the o-line took two steps back. So far they have had one good game and two bad games. Brady was sacked twice and was hurried more times than I can remember. This oline is going to get Brady killed.

Defense was pretty good but it is hard to ignore that Carr had all day to throw and was not sacked once.

A disappointing performance against a 0-2 raiders team. BB the GM has not provided Brady the protection or weapons he needs. Brady is 37, now has zero margin for error and is expected to carry this team and make something offensively happen with this rag tag bunch of receivers.

I am not rooting for this team to lose but perhaps a 7-9 or 8-8 season and missing the playoffs will make BB realize that the offense, not just the defense, needs to be upgraded as well.

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What are you talking about? Ghost's chip-shot field goals are largely due to an offense that moved the ball well a few times, but bogged down in the end zone. Gronk should not have dropped that tipped ball, but it happens. There was a bit of a cluster at the end of the first half and the execution in the goal line running game stunk, but some of that is due to the Raiders' defense. As bad as that team is, they have a solid DLine (and a solid running game, but you couldn't tell that with the way the Pats shut down McFadden).

bradydaman29 said:

One of the things that stood out in this game was how Ridley's not making much happen. That yellow line is a like a force field that he can't quite reach. He seems to go down if anyone gets a hand on him. Very disappointing.

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Ridley makes more happen with less than most backs in the league. He usually can fall forward, but some very good DTs decisively beat our interior OL and stopped him a couple times. Your hyperbole is beyond ridiculous. It's like you are watching a different game and a different team. (You have plenty of company in that, however.)

At the risk of getting ripped for distinguishing between a 4-3 and 3-4, I thought their defense against Oakland on 1st and 10 was interesting. Looked like a 4-3, and they even walked a safety up to make a 4-4. Oakland still ran it. Looked like a 3-4 on 2nd and medium, or 4-2 on longer downs.

New rules, what DB is looking as good as last year? They can't breathe on the WRs. Sherman gave up catches last night, Revis looks pretty good.

How is Brady supposed to complete passes with no time? Not enough time to get a receiver downfield, everything has to be short and the opponent knows it. We've had big trouble with two teams, both had good DLs rushing 4. Match-up problem for us right now is that kind of DL.