Defense Untested; Offense Found Lacking

FourierSeries said:

We've played 3 very poor teams, all of whom have only 1 win each. So far our D is #2 in total yards allowed per game, #1 in passing yards allowed per game, and #5 in points allowed per game. Stats look excellent. Only question is how will this D fare against better competition?

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I think that's a fair point. We haven't played top tier O competition so we don't ultimately know how the D will perform under those circumstances. The only thing I would add to that (aimed at those that are very worried) is there's no firm reason to be pessimistic they will perform poorly. IMHO the firm reasons lean toward the D performing adequately or better.

Brady_to_Moss said:

Just so you know OP. If we had Ds of past..they would have given up TDs today and not FGs and given up 28 points. These Os stink....But last 2 games have been 9 and 7 pts. Previous Ds? Carr would have had 4 TDs

You must have been the bozo who called into gresh after game saying this team has no one...lucky to win 8 games ect ect......can never win with you guys

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Absolutely. Maybe watch a few years of the Pats before offering a dire, "the end is coming" prognosis. Those prior few years might be educational.

If the offensive line is fixed, the D will not have to stay on the field forever and stay fresher, the receivers will likely look better because they have more than 2 seconds to get open before Brady gets squashed, and Brady will look better because he will not be gazing upward at the sky through the pile of humanity resting upon him.

My only concern is the line looked better last week, but was heavily penalized, but this week was less penalized but did little to protect Brady. Week 2 looked like progress, but this week the O-line appeared to correct penalties at the expense of Brady's body. I'm not feeling the progress on this critical area of concern.

The original post and poster of which you speak did NOT suggest that the "end is coming". That post predicted that we would be 11-5, win the division and be in the playoffs, as is the norm for the patriots.

MassPats38 said:

Absolutely. Maybe watch a few years of the Pats before offering a dire, "the end is coming" prognosis. Those prior few years might be educational.

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MassPats38 said:

Absolutely. Maybe watch a few years of the Pats before offering a dire, "the end is coming" prognosis. Those prior few years might be educational.

If the offensive line is fixed, the D will not have to stay on the field forever and stay fresher, the receivers will likely look better because they have more than 2 seconds to get open before Brady gets squashed, and Brady will look better because he will not be gazing upward at the sky through the pile of humanity resting upon him.

My only concern is the line looked better last week, but was heavily penalized, but this week was less penalized but did little to protect Brady. Week 2 looked like progress, but this week the O-line appeared to correct penalties at the expense of Brady's body. I'm not feeling the progress on this critical area of concern.

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Well said all around except for calling out the OP. I think it's others that your post applies to.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Well said all around except for calling out the OP. I think it's others that your post applies to.

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Not my intention. That was more directed to the early gloom and doom prophecy. I largely agree with the OP.

MassPats38 said:

Absolutely. Maybe watch a few years of the Pats before offering a dire, "the end is coming" prognosis. Those prior few years might be educational.

If the offensive line is fixed, the D will not have to stay on the field forever and stay fresher, the receivers will likely look better because they have more than 2 seconds to get open before Brady gets squashed, and Brady will look better because he will not be gazing upward at the sky through the pile of humanity resting upon him.

My only concern is the line looked better last week, but was heavily penalized, but this week was less penalized but did little to protect Brady. Week 2 looked like progress, but this week the O-line appeared to correct penalties at the expense of Brady's body. I'm not feeling the progress on this critical area of concern.

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Last week Brady wasn't sacked but he ended up on his ass just as often, throwing 5yard dinks to Edelmen. The only time Brady had to throw was in the Third and Fourth quarters this game, after the Pats subbed in Stork, moved Connolly to RG, and benched Devery. When Fleming gets acclimated and replaces Connoly at RG, then the combo will get better and better just as BB anticipated in the Draft.

AzPatsFan said:

Last week Brady wasn't sacked but he ended up on his ass just as often, throwing 5yard dinks to Edelmen. The only time Brady had to throw was in the Third and Fourth quarters this game, after the Pats subbed in Stork, moved Connolly to RG, and benched Devery. When Fleming gets acclimated and replaces Connoly at RG, then the combo will get better and better just as BB anticipated in the Draft.

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Do you think that's the plan AZ? Flemming at RG?

It is a long season, our O seems out of sync... here is the real heresy, Brady seems somewhat off. The WR's have made some mistakes, but we have seen worse.

Historically the Pats have always played to the level of competition, i.e. when we play the lower echelon teams they often struggle, our one loss against Miami is almost predictable...

Another heresy, thought Revis played like crap yesterday...

No turnovers, a win is a win, there are no style points in the NFL...

My concern is whether the defense can hold up when the offense faces a defense that forces several 3 and outs, because the offense will be a work in progress for a while.

The only thing im worried about is that we have the exact same problems we had last year.
Jones, Ninko, Mayo and now Hightower have been playing 100% of the time on defense and we still lack push up the middle.

The OLine is actually worse. We have 0 depth at TE and that deep threat thing? We dont even have.

I know i know, its early and all but this things dont date back from pre season, they date back from 2013.

I wasnt expecting any rookies to come out and be the cure to all the problems, but we could have at least improved a tiny bit somewhere, anywhere!

The view inside my brain:

Glass is half empty

• Brady truly is evaporating before our eyes and we will be the last to see it
• the game has left Our Coach behind and our schemes will continue to leave our players a half step behind
• the receivers will never be more than fill-ins
• The OL was stitched together by Scar every year in nearly magical manner and we won't see that happen again
  
• Revis is just better than average, not great, at this point
• The D is solid but when faced with a potent offense, will start giving up 24+ points a game
• we will lose 5 of the next 7
• I will hate Jets fans even more

Glass if half full

• Compared to other season starts, this is pretty good, particularly the D, and the injury situation
• Brady and the OL will inevitably get it together and this will make the receiving corps a notch better
• Our Coach is deliberately not showing too much yet, allowing the O to come together before pushing the playbook and complexity
• The D will improve as well, as the youth gets better incrementally with each game and the gradual offensive improvement puts more pressure on opposing offenses to score
• I will hate Jets fans about the same

pencilneckgeek said:

My concern is whether the defense can hold up when the offense faces a defense that forces several 3 and outs, because the offense will be a work in progress for a while.

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I think if you fix the oline then the offense will be fine. really, when brady had time yesterday our offense looked fine. brady was hitting guys all over the field

and i'm tired of hearing the moaning about Revis when he lets a completion up. No matter how good every corner is, they ARE going to have plays made against them. that includes Revis. people forget that receivers still made plays on him when he was with the Jets.

MassPats38 said:

If the offensive line is fixed, the D will not have to stay on the field forever and stay fresher, the receivers will likely look better because they have more than 2 seconds to get open before Brady gets squashed, and Brady will look better because he will not be gazing upward at the sky through the pile of humanity resting upon him.

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This kind of rational posting is against board policy.

MassPats38 said: ↑


If the offensive line is fixed, the D will not have to stay on the field forever and stay fresher, the receivers will likely look better because they have more than 2 seconds to get open before Brady gets squashed, and Brady will look better because he will not be gazing upward at the sky through the pile of humanity resting upon him.

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mayoclinic: This kind of rational posting is against board policy.

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The NFL is such a team sport. So many times folks just dont realize exactly how much SYNERGY is involved and that synergy is often the DIFFERENCE between an AVERAGE and an ELITE Team. That is, HOW LITTLE DIFFERENCE it takes to get that synergy to elevate you from one level to the next.

Many folks are worried about the LEVEL OF TALENT on the team; rather than HOW THE TALENT YOU HAVE WORKS TOGETHER. Another failing that comes a bit from the Fantasy Football understanding I think.

I am not saying everything is rosy and agree with the OP about there being serious holes on the team right now. But I do think some of these apparent holes can be addressed by the talent that is there being coached up; and not necessarily need to be fixed by acquiring some mythical 'guy off the street' who can magically outperform 1st to 4th round draft picks or acquiring some mega-$M FA through some blockbuster trade.

supafly said:

I too, have been impressed with the play of Hightower this year. I think that he's come a long way and doesn't emulate the slower, sluggish, one step late kind of play that we saw in the past couple of years.

Along with Hightower, I believe that Chung has actually had a couple of nice games last week + today. As I mentioned in another thread, it's hard to imagine that continuing, at least in terms of his pass coverage, but for now I am rather impressed.

Chandler Jones is another who seems to have bolstered both his ability to stop the run, along with some more experience in his pass rushing moves.

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CJ also had 2 PDF. His awareness is tremendous

RIpats88 said:

and i'm tired of hearing the moaning about Revis when he lets a completion up. No matter how good every corner is, they ARE going to have plays made against them. that includes Revis. people forget that receivers still made plays on him when he was with the Jets.

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Watched Talib give up a long touchdown yesterday. Both he and Sherman gave up plays.

Give some credit to the other guys, right? The biggest play Revis gave up yesterday was a perfect back-shoulder throw from Carr. Nobody defends that play.

Agree on the Hightower comments he has looked our best player and maybe a step faster than in the past. Secondary depth is there for the first time but no LB, DE, DT exists at all.

Gumby said:

The NFL is such a team sport. So many times folks just dont realize exactly how much SYNERGY is involved and that synergy is often the DIFFERENCE between an AVERAGE and an ELITE Team. That is, HOW LITTLE DIFFERENCE it takes to get that synergy to elevate you from one level to the next.

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Actually, I think it takes a tremendous amount of work to develop the synergy to elevate a team from one level to the next. On the other hand, it takes only a small failing to drop one level to the next. That large amount of work is what keeps teams like the Raiders on the losing end, even when they have players like Tuck and Woodson that make huge plays with some degree of regularity. The question is whether the Patriots fixing their OL issues would be sufficient to take them to the next level and how much time it takes to develop that synergy, once that missing ingredient is in place. The Pats may need a game or two with OL success for the trust to be sufficient that the offense functions the way it is intended. There is plenty of time left for this to happen, but the OL needs to step-up first.

mgteich said:

The original post and poster of which you speak did NOT suggest that the "end is coming". That post predicted that we would be 11-5, win the division and be in the playoffs, as is the norm for the patriots.

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11-5 would be the worst Patriot season in 5 years. It would be worse than 8 of the last 11 years.
I wouldn't call 11-5 the norm, and I would call it a major disappointment given the expectation that we have the best defense we have had in many years.

iapatsfan said:

Collins played. It just seemed like he was out because he does absolutely nothing.

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Collins played 20 snaps and is recovering from an injury severe enough to keep him out last week. Funny but stupid.