My Blueprint for the Offense

I'd like to see play-action from a jumbo unbalanced line, toward the weak side.
The target could be a RB like Vereen, a FB like Develin, a TE like Gronk, or a WR like LaFell.

captain stone said:

I'd like to see play-action from a jumbo unbalanced line, toward the weak side.
The target could be a RB like Vereen, a FB like Develin, a TE like Gronk, or a WR like LaFell.

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Stanford uses a jumbo line as a main part of their offense. They run about 40 times a game, and pass about 20 times, almost exclusively out of play action.

BB on Cameron Fleming's development:

“I think Cam [Fleming] has done a real good job for us,” Belichick said. “One of the challenges for him and for us was him not really being here for much of the spring. Just being late in spring because of his commitments to school. We really didn’t have a great feel for him until training camp started.

“And he came here in really good condition. He ran well. He dropped some weight; he leaned up. He worked really hard between the beginning of June and the end of July. He was definitely ready to go, had a good camp, performed very well. And caught up to all the things we were doing in a short amount of time. The more time we spent around him, the more impressed we were.”

Fleming, a 6-foot-6, 325-pound tackle out of Stanford, was selected by the Patriots in the fourth round (140th overall). In the Patriots’ 30-7 victory over the Minnesota Vikings on Sunday, Fleming played 28 of 67 plays as a tight end, equaling tight end Rob Gronkowski’s workload.

“When you draft a guy, I don’t think you draft a tackle to play tight end,” Belichick said. “We didn’t draft [Nate] Solder to play tight end but even in his rookie year he played a lot of that position. Sometimes it just works out that way one way or another depending on your team and a little bit on the player’s skills.”

Fleming could be on a similar track as starting left tackle Nate Solder, who was a tight end during his freshman season at Colorado and also played tight end as an extra blocker in his first season with the Patriots.

“I think Cam showed us repeatedly in both practice and in preseason games, practices against Philadelphia and Washington, he could earn time on the field,” Belichick said. “Sometimes you sit in there as a staff and say how do we get our best players on the field -- get our best blockers on the field. We knew one way to do it in this case.”

Fleming is making a smooth transition to blocking at tight end, which is a bit different from playing tackle.

“It’s one guy further away from the ball,” Belichick said. “There’s a lot of different looks a tight end has to see relevant to the outside linebacker, the defensive end, the safety, sometimes the corner on the backside, slot. There’s a lot of configurations back there that are a lot different than what a tackle sees, but he has done a good job of that. Identifying them, recognizing, sorting them out, working in conjunction with either another tight end or the tackle to the inside of him.”

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http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...8465/belichick-fleming-is-catching-on-quickly

captain stone said:

I'd like to see play-action from a jumbo unbalanced line, toward the weak side.
The target could be a RB like Vereen, a FB like Develin, a TE like Gronk, or a WR like LaFell.

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Oliver Thomas breaks down Cameron Fleming's impact on the offense vs. Minnesota, and notes that they've already done some of that:

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2014...-enters-its-straightforward-for-patriots.html

Of note:

The 6’6”, 325-pound offensive tackle – in title – was in to block for all 25 of his snaps against the Minnesota Vikings in Week 2. And of those 25 penalty-excluding snaps, 22 turned out to be run plays designed for Stevan Ridley, Brandon Bolden and quarterback Tom Brady.

Stopping those run plays proved to be a different battle for Minnesota. A total of 81 rush yards and a goal-line touchdown were the byproduct when Fleming was called upon as a sixth offensive lineman for the second consecutive week.


The output wasn’t explosive. It wasn’t dominant. It was, however, steady. There was just one double-digit gain for the Patriots when Fleming was in accompanying starting tackles Nate Solder and Sebastion Vollmer. Yet there were also 11 carries for four or more yards, and zero carries for a loss of yards.

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Every so often, though, another kind of play was called in New England’s huddle. A kind of play that’s less predictable to account for when over 1,800 pounds of blockers stand at the forefront of it.

The play-action pass.

The Patriots drew the defense in before going to the air a total of four times with Fleming in the game. And the end result was 3-of-3 passing for 38 yards and a penalty for defensive pass interference.

The deception began after New England’s offense opened the tilt with five straight run plays over the course of two series.

With jumbo “21” personnel on a 1st-and-10, the initial pass went to second-year wideout Aaron Dobson on a dig route. It picked up 13 yards over the middle, as the linebackers encroached on the gaps and vacated the second level just enough for Brady to anticipate a window.


It was revisited out of “22” personnel for another 1st-and-10 not long after.

This time, the play-action pass went to fullback James Develin, who slipped through the trenches and into the flat while the front seven monitored Ridley’s blitz pickup.

Unattended, the connection acquired an additional 13 yards, as Develin collected his second catch of the game after harnessing four in 16 games last season.


Then, from “12” personnel on a 2nd-and-3, Brady found his primary receiver in Julian Edelman.

The Vikings leaned eight into the box following the fake exchange. Edelman slanted across the middle for 12 yards and reeled in the spiral as he angled upfield.


With Fleming still in the game, Edelman was turned to again later on.

Via “12” personnel for a 2nd-and-8 situation, the fourth and final target found the “Z” receiver on an out-and-up pattern down the right sideline. But that final attempt concluded with the football, and the flag, hitting the turf, following interference from 2013 first-round cornerback Xavier Rhodes.


When Fleming had his number announced through the speakers of TCF Bank Stadium in Minneapolis, the play-action pass was the end result on two plays in the first quarter, one in the second and one more in the third.

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Starting to think we need an offense oriented draft this year. The defense is, the offense though is not good right now. it can get better with an impactful Dobson, a more confident Gronk and a better protected Brady but this offense doesn't have the players right now to take command of a defense. In past years our offense has carried our D. This year the complete opposite is true.

The OLine is a mess, and i still dont like Cannon at guard.
Should we be looking at a new LT?

I want Scherff so so so so bad.

stelfans said:

The OLine is a mess, and i still dont like Cannon at guard.
Should we be looking at a new LT?

I want Scherff so so so so bad.

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I just don't think Solder has progressed that much. He's certainly not locking down the blind side atm.

I think we need an overhaul at the guard position this offseason

ripatsfan91 said:

I think we need an overhaul at the guard position this offseason

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At the very least we need one starting caliber guard, and that assumes that Stork grows into the center position and that Cannon develops as a guard and is extended (or that Fleming develops as a guard). We probably need a tackle, too - at least a legitimate swing tackle, and possibly more, depending on whether Solder cleans up his act.

We could end up needing a major overhaul of the OL, but I'll wait and see how things develop before going that far. But we certainly need to invest in it for next year.

We need a legit LG - a young Mankins.
We need either Cannon or Fleming to become a starting-caliber RG.
And we need to draft a legit Swing Tackle, who could possibly take over LT by 2016.

So that's at least 2 OLmen we need to draft in 2015.
We also need to draft a size/speed WR who can make catches outside the hashes.

manxman2601 said:

Starting to think we need an offense oriented draft this year. The defense is, the offense though is not good right now. it can get better with an impactful Dobson, a more confident Gronk and a better protected Brady but this offense doesn't have the players right now to take command of a defense. In past years our offense has carried our D. This year the complete opposite is true.

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I just want to elucidate on this a little.

Firstly, I don't think for a minute that by concentrating on offense in this one upcoming draft that the offense will be magically fixed. Secondly, I'm not convinced that things are at the disastrous level just yet either. We still have to see what Dobson might bring to the offence and Wright and LaFell are still acclimating to a new offense. Similarly, we have a new OL coach and I'm sure that things will improve the more he and the new OL work together.

But, there are issues. Brady really doesn't look like he can offer much in the way of a vertical game anymore and we/he are so reliant on Edelman and Gronkowski that defenses can keep our offense in front of them and not give up the explosive play. This becomes even more a factor because opposing DLs are getting to Brady just by rushing four and dropping everyone else into coverage. Solder hasn't become an elite LT and nor has Vereen become a genuine dual threat and whilst Ridley is decent, he's not an explosive threat.

We are starting to see the benefits of our recent defense orientated drafting. Jones, Collins, Hightower, McCourty and, hopefully, Easley were all drafted high and are becoming the core of a potentially outstanding defense. Maybe we should start paying that kind of attention to the offense. Solder, Vereen and Ridley are all coming to the end of their rookie contracts and since their draft, the only offensive player we've taken in the top three rounds is Aaron Dobson (I deliberately left Jimmy G off because, for now, he's only a backup QB and was drafted as such in the short term). We won't fix the offense in one year, but we might if we starting lavishing some draft love on that side of the ball over the next three years just as we did with the defense.

And by all means, start with Ameer Abdullah (and Brandon Scherff would certainly be starting us off in the right direction).

Hate to type this, but I fear Patriots may need a new HC/GM before that happens. I just dont see BB useing all picks on the offensiv side of the ball and not 3 times

captain stone said:

We need a legit LG - a young Mankins.
We need either Cannon or Fleming to become a starting-caliber RG.
And we need to draft a legit Swing Tackle, who could possibly take over LT by 2016.

So that's at least 2 OLmen we need to draft in 2015.
We also need to draft a size/speed WR who can make catches outside the hashes.

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Always still fighting the last war, captain.

The WR corps was rebuilt last year and the talent for a O line makeover was acquired in the last draft.

Just because it hasn't all gelled in only the third game does NOT MEAN it won't over the long season, so it is ready for the Playoffs. If the talent wasn't there, than I might worry but it is so I don't.

I'd suggest we need another DT/DE, and a single OT, as well as a LB. and maybe a RB, as targets for the off-season.

Luxusdk said:

Hate to type this, but I fear Patriots may need a new HC/GM before that happens. I just dont see BB useing all picks on the offensiv side of the ball and not 3 times

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I'm not saying he should use every pick on offense over the next three years, I'm just saying that there needs to be a greater emphasis on offensive players in the early rounds than there has been the last three years. I do think that hiring an offense minded deputy GM type to be responsible for the scouting of offensive players is a good idea because I do think BB has a bit of a blind spot in that regard.

manxman2601 said:

Starting to think we need an offense oriented draft this year. The defense is, the offense though is not good right now. it can get better with an impactful Dobson, a more confident Gronk and a better protected Brady but this offense doesn't have the players right now to take command of a defense. In past years our offense has carried our D. This year the complete opposite is true.

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We used 2 top 36 picks on offense in 2006, and got Laurence Mahoney and Chad Jackson for it. I don't disagree at all about getting a few studs on offense, but I'm not sure there is a recipe for it. We used a 2nd in 2013, but passed up Keen an Allen.

Again, I'm not particularly disagreeing with you.

manxman2601 said:

I just want to elucidate on this a little.

Firstly, I don't think for a minute that by concentrating on offense in this one upcoming draft that the offense will be magically fixed. Secondly, I'm not convinced that things are at the disastrous level just yet either. We still have to see what Dobson might bring to the offence and Wright and LaFell are still acclimating to a new offense. Similarly, we have a new OL coach and I'm sure that things will improve the more he and the new OL work together.

But, there are issues. Brady really doesn't look like he can offer much in the way of a vertical game anymore and we/he are so reliant on Edelman and Gronkowski that defenses can keep our offense in front of them and not give up the explosive play. This becomes even more a factor because opposing DLs are getting to Brady just by rushing four and dropping everyone else into coverage. Solder hasn't become an elite LT and nor has Vereen become a genuine dual threat and whilst Ridley is decent, he's not an explosive threat.

We are starting to see the benefits of our recent defense orientated drafting. Jones, Collins, Hightower, McCourty and, hopefully, Easley were all drafted high and are becoming the core of a potentially outstanding defense. Maybe we should start paying that kind of attention to the offense. Solder, Vereen and Ridley are all coming to the end of their rookie contracts and since their draft, the only offensive player we've taken in the top three rounds is Aaron Dobson (I deliberately left Jimmy G off because, for now, he's only a backup QB and was drafted as such in the short term). We won't fix the offense in one year, but we might if we starting lavishing some draft love on that side of the ball over the next three years just as we did with the defense.

And by all means, start with Ameer Abdullah (and Brandon Scherff would certainly be starting us off in the right direction).

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Manx, I don't know the answer to this, though I agree that an upgrade in talent is needed.

By all means, I am in favor of spending heavily on the OL. I think that is one of the most important areas of the team, and well worth using day 1 and day 2 draft capital. I would have drafted Brandon Thomas last year and pegged him for our LG of the future, and considered it worth waiting a year to get him on the field. I loved DJ Fluker in 2013. I'm more than happy at any time to invest in a quality lineman, and I think we've tried too often to plug JAGs in.

Draft position does not guarantee success, however. We've seen plenty of high picks flop. Look at Derek Sherrod. Nate Solder was taken at #17 overall, the 4th highest pick in the BB era. He's looked poor this season - whether because of the loss of Scar, the loss of Mankins next to him, trying to do too much, or whatever reason. BB has invested 2 1sts (Solder, Mankins), 2 2nds (Klemm, Light, Vollmer), and a 3rd (Kaczur) on the OL, so he's certainly willing to do that.

Right now our playmakers aren't making plays, some of our high draft picks aren't getting on the field, our line isn't giving Brady time, and the whole thing is a hot mess.

I'm ambivalent about spending a high pick on a RB. On the one hand, I can clearly see the value of the position in the overall offense, I'm a big believer in the running game, and I think that there's no doubt that certain backs have the talent to justify that kind of pick. Doug Martin, Giovanni Bernard and Carlos Hyde come to mind. Frank Gore and Marshawn Lynch transform their respective offenses. But the RB position has one of the shortest life-spans in the NFL, and they get the crap beat out of them. Look at Doug Martin. He's the rare guy I thought was worth a 1st round pick, and I wanted the Pats to take him in 2012. He proved he was worth it with 1900 yards from scrimmage in 2012. But he played only 6 games last year, and has 9 yards rushing in 1 game so far this year (1.0 YPC average). I have a hard time seeing guys like Martin and Eddie Lacy staying healthy enough to have long careers. Meanwhile you have guys like Alfred Morris who are solid, productive players. I'm not sure how to pick a back who will hold up in the NFL.

I don't know the answer, but generally I think the place to start is fixing the OL. As another poster wrote on the main board:

MassPats38 said:

If the offensive line is fixed, the D will not have to stay on the field forever and stay fresher, the receivers will likely look better because they have more than 2 seconds to get open before Brady gets squashed, and Brady will look better because he will not be gazing upward at the sky through the pile of humanity resting upon him.

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Beyond that, we need to find out this year whether Aaron Dobson is a keeper or not, whether Tim Wright can grow into the move TE role, whether Shane Vereen can stay healthy and contribute consistently, and whether the Pats are committed to running the ball.

Lots of work to be done.

manxman2601 said:

I just want to elucidate on this a little.

Firstly, I don't think for a minute that by concentrating on offense in this one upcoming draft that the offense will be magically fixed. Secondly, I'm not convinced that things are at the disastrous level just yet either. We still have to see what Dobson might bring to the offence and Wright and LaFell are still acclimating to a new offense. Similarly, we have a new OL coach and I'm sure that things will improve the more he and the new OL work together.

But, there are issues. Brady really doesn't look like he can offer much in the way of a vertical game anymore and we/he are so reliant on Edelman and Gronkowski that defenses can keep our offense in front of them and not give up the explosive play. This becomes even more a factor because opposing DLs are getting to Brady just by rushing four and dropping everyone else into coverage. Solder hasn't become an elite LT and nor has Vereen become a genuine dual threat and whilst Ridley is decent, he's not an explosive threat.

We are starting to see the benefits of our recent defense orientated drafting. Jones, Collins, Hightower, McCourty and, hopefully, Easley were all drafted high and are becoming the core of a potentially outstanding defense. Maybe we should start paying that kind of attention to the offense. Solder, Vereen and Ridley are all coming to the end of their rookie contracts and since their draft, the only offensive player we've taken in the top three rounds is Aaron Dobson (I deliberately left Jimmy G off because, for now, he's only a backup QB and was drafted as such in the short term). We won't fix the offense in one year, but we might if we starting lavishing some draft love on that side of the ball over the next three years just as we did with the defense.

And by all means, start with Ameer Abdullah (and Brandon Scherff would certainly be starting us off in the right direction).

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Hah!! I knew it...

First time this guy ever posted, I says to myself "This Manx Cat ~ see what I did, there?? ~ He's an Elucidator, is what'e is. Probably comes from a long line of Elucidators."

Nailed it.

Off The Grid said:

Hah!! I knew it...

First time this guy ever posted, I says to myself "This Manx Cat ~ see what I did, there?? ~ He's an Elucidator, is what'e is. Probably comes from a long line of Elucidators."

Nailed it.

Click to expand...

mayoclinic said:

Manx, I don't know the answer to this, though I agree that an upgrade in talent is needed.

By all means, I am in favor of spending heavily on the OL. I think that is one of the most important areas of the team, and well worth using day 1 and day 2 draft capital. I would have drafted Brandon Thomas last year and pegged him for our LG of the future, and considered it worth waiting a year to get him on the field. I loved DJ Fluker in 2013. I'm more than happy at any time to invest in a quality lineman, and I think we've tried too often to plug JAGs in.

Draft position does not guarantee success, however. We've seen plenty of high picks flop. Look at Derek Sherrod. Nate Solder was taken at #17 overall, the 4th highest pick in the BB era. He's looked poor this season - whether because of the loss of Scar, the loss of Mankins next to him, trying to do too much, or whatever reason. BB has invested 2 1sts (Solder, Mankins), 2 2nds (Klemm, Light, Vollmer), and a 3rd (Kaczur) on the OL, so he's certainly willing to do that.

Right now our playmakers aren't making plays, some of our high draft picks aren't getting on the field, our line isn't giving Brady time, and the whole thing is a hot mess.

I'm ambivalent about spending a high pick on a RB. On the one hand, I can clearly see the value of the position in the overall offense, I'm a big believer in the running game, and I think that there's no doubt that certain backs have the talent to justify that kind of pick. Doug Martin, Giovanni Bernard and Carlos Hyde come to mind. Frank Gore and Marshawn Lynch transform their respective offenses. But the RB position has one of the shortest life-spans in the NFL, and they get the crap beat out of them. Look at Doug Martin. He's the rare guy I thought was worth a 1st round pick, and I wanted the Pats to take him in 2012. He proved he was worth it with 1900 yards from scrimmage in 2012. But he played only 6 games last year, and has 9 yards rushing in 1 game so far this year (1.0 YPC average). I have a hard time seeing guys like Martin and Eddie Lacy staying healthy enough to have long careers. Meanwhile you have guys like Alfred Morris who are solid, productive players. I'm not sure how to pick a back who will hold up in the NFL.

I don't know the answer, but generally I think the place to start is fixing the OL. As another poster wrote on the main board:



Beyond that, we need to find out this year whether Aaron Dobson is a keeper or not, whether Tim Wright can grow into the move TE role, whether Shane Vereen can stay healthy and contribute consistently, and whether the Pats are committed to running the ball.

Lots of work to be done.

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1. I just see a potentially outstanding core unit on defense that has been drafted high - and let's not forget the likes of Ryan and Dennard too. Sure, draft position doesn't guarantee success but they tried on defense and it worked. We haven't even tried on offense.

2. Yes there are risks to picking a RB high, but bear in mind I'm thinking about Abdullah as a 2nd rounder, albeit one we might have to trade back or up for. But think on this. Just looked at the top 10 rushing leaders from last year. Of them, six were taken in the first two rounds, (three were taken in the first round) and of the remaining four three were third rounders. As with every other position,when it comes to RB you get what you pay for.

3. This offense was built around the idea that Brady will get it done no matter who's out there with him. We're starting to see the first evidence that that is no longer the case. With the right tools, Brady will still be better than most other QBs so let's put better tools around him.

manxman2601 said:

1. I just see a potentially outstanding core unit on defense that has been drafted high - and let's not forget the likes of Ryan and Dennard too. Sure, draft position doesn't guarantee success but they tried on defense and it worked. We haven't even tried on offense.

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In general, BB has spent roughly as much 2nd and 3rd round draft capital on offense as he has on defense:

- 1st round picks: 5 offense (Graham 2002, Watson 2004, Mankins 2005, Maroney 2006, Solder 2011), 9 defense (Seymour 2001, Warren 2003, Wilfork 2004, Meriweather 2007, Mayo 2008, McCourty 2010, Jones 2012, Hightower 2012, Easley 2014)
- 2nd round picks: 10-12 offense (Klemm 2000, Light 2001, Branch 2002, Johnson 2003, Vollmer 2009, Gronkowski 2010, Vereen 2011, Dobson 2013, Garoppolo 2014, plus a 2004 and 2007 2nd round trades for Dillon and Welker), 11 defense (Wilson 2003, Hill 2004, Jackson 2006, Wheatley 2008, Chung 2009, Butler 2009, Brace 2009, Cunningham 2010, Spikes 2010, Dowling 2011, Wilson 2012, Collins 2013)
- 3rd round picks: 8 offense (Redmond 2000, Kaczur 2005, Thomas 2006, O'Connell 2008, Tate 2009, Price 2010, Ridley 2011, Mallett 2011) defense (Williams 2001, Scott 2004, Hobbs 2005, Crable 2008, McKenzie 2009, Bequette 2012, Ryan 2013, Harmon 2013)

Counting the Dillon and Welker trades the Pats have spent 3 2nd-3rd round picks have on backup quarterbacks; 1 1st, 2 2nds and a 3rd on RBs (including the Dillon trade); 4 2nds and 2 3rds on WRs; 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd on TEs; and 2 1sts, 3 ends and a 3rd on the OL.

There have been a bunch of relatively non-productive picks on offense, but there has been a reasonable amount of spending. I'd personally be happy to see them continue to invest, particularly in the OL, but I'd like to see a little better return on that investment.

manxman2601 said:

2. Yes there are risks to picking a RB high, but bear in mind I'm thinking about Abdullah as a 2nd rounder, albeit one we might have to trade back or up for. But think on this. Just looked at the top 10 rushing leaders from last year. Of them, six were taken in the first two rounds, (three were taken in the first round) and of the remaining four three were third rounders. As with every other position,when it comes to RB you get what you pay for.

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I think that's on that will have to depend on who's available. I certainly wouldn't rule a day 2 RB out, but I think it will come down to the available value. This looks like a good RB class, and some of the day 2 guys are likely to be very good (Abdullah, Ajayi and Karlos Williams in particular).

manxman2601 said:

3. This offense was built around the idea that Brady will get it done no matter who's out there with him. We're starting to see the first evidence that that is no longer the case. With the right tools, Brady will still be better than most other QBs so let's put better tools around him.

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Agreed, though I think that Brady needs protection more than he needs "weapons", which was one of the themes of the OP. Our best receivers have generally been late round picks/UDFAs like Troy Brown, Wes Welker and Julian Edelman (obviously Deion Branch and Randy Moss should be included).

You can't just say he used that many on O and that many on D - Look at 1 and 2 round, since 2007 BB have used 1 1round pick and 6 2round pick on O vs 6 1round and 9 2round on D. A total of 7 picks against 15.

Then you'll have to add the $ spend on Vets and stuff also and the story is even more absurd. I doubt any would talk about it if Patriots had a top5 D to go with the Capital spend, but that wasn't the case.

I think the early misses on Graham/Watson and ofc Maroney did something to BB cause he have basicly refused to use early picks since then.