mankins with tampa

Another example of Belichick knowing when to move on from an older player. These moves NEVER blow up in his face, despite the media's fervent wish that they would. They're just way dumber than he is and it puts their grapes in a twist. Yahoos...

Add "completely demoralized" to the long list of reasons likely for underwhelming play so far.

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Looking back at these deals, and watching this game in what is sure to be a loooooong season for TB, I wonder if these players (Mankins, Seymour... really any NFL player traded in like circumstance) regret their hard line decision to not renegotiate vs allowing them to stay with a winner and long time friends.

It's one thing to say it's a respect issue, and say it's not about the salary per se blah blah. It's another completely different ball of wax when BB or other coach shows you what actually playing ONLY for the paycheck (but yes) with your respect(!) really means.

I kinda feel bad for those guys for a while, now toiling on such really really terrible teams without any realistic shot of the playoffs, hope, and really any relevance at all - just 7 or so games in. All this dismay after watching the player and NE perform so exceptionally well over their years together..... But I'm ok. Yes, it's bad for me, but oh my, it must be 10x worse for them living that football crapfest, the new reality they created.

So then I wonder anew, do they regret it?

fin.

Trade off:

On the one hand, I can have two or three more years of a more pleasant work environment and (perhaps) more professional achievement.

On the other, for every million dollars I save, I am funding another generation of my family for education and security. I'm the only one in my family with the capability and opportunity to do this. Or, if it isn't about family, perhaps it is about a social cause that I care about. Can I really look those people in the eye and say that I've got less money for them just because I want to spend a few years with one employer rather than another?

betterthanthealternative said:

Trade off:

On the one hand, I can have two or three more years of a more pleasant work environment and (perhaps) more professional achievement.

On the other, for every million dollars I save, I am funding another generation of my family for education and security. I'm the only one in my family with the capability and opportunity to do this. Or, if it isn't about family, perhaps it is about a social cause that I care about. Can I really look those people in the eye and say that I've got less money for them just because I want to spend a few years with one employer rather than another?

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First things first. The Pats weren't going to bust him down to vet minimum. I'm no contract maven, but don't they usually turn some of that future year money (that he will NEVER see) into upfront guarantee?

Christian Fauria, John Hannah, Tedy Bruschi, Troy Brown, Scott Zolak, Jermaine Wiggins, Matt Chatham, are all players making (or will make) more money in Foxboro over their non-playing careers than they made during their playing careers. What do they have? Rings. What's the commercial money making potential in Tampa Bay for him over the next 40 years versus Boston/NE? 6 states versus the west coast of one, where college football is faaaaar more watched than the pros.

No one (and I mean NO ONE) is going to pay Mankins at his current contract level next year.

Remember, he has never won a SB ring. I do believe there is some material value to that outside of NE also.

Further, each player share for making it through the playoffs and winning a Super Bowl last year was $180,000.

Just ask Deion Branch or Richard Seymour.

betterthanthealternative said:

Trade off:

On the one hand, I can have two or three more years of a more pleasant work environment and (perhaps) more professional achievement.

On the other, for every million dollars I save, I am funding another generation of my family for education and security. I'm the only one in my family with the capability and opportunity to do this. Or, if it isn't about family, perhaps it is about a social cause that I care about. Can I really look those people in the eye and say that I've got less money for them just because I want to spend a few years with one employer rather than another?

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Have you ever spent a year or more with an employer where you hated the job, not because of your fellow employees, but due to the work content? A lot of us have and in most instances the last thought going through your mind is about the money you are making if there are plausible alternatives.

I guess I wasn't alone when I watched the Bucs Falcons rout, and wondering what Logan Mankins was thinking while it happened.

My other thought on that game, was "maybe, just maybe, Lovie Smith would FINALLY stop getting passes for his mediocre coaching for the last decade"

None of us know how much paycut the Patriots wanted Mankins to take.

If I were him, I would have had a hard time agreeing to any paycut that paid me less than Dan Connolly.
If I were him, I would have hada hard time agreeing to any paycut that paid me less than Danny Amendola knowing that 2 million of Amendola's salary became fully guaranteed in March.
If I were him, I would have had a hard time agreeing to any paycut if the Patriots had earlier refused to upgrade my rookie contract stating that a deal is a deal.

Please note that since Mankins played in 16 games last year and played in over 98% of the offensive snaps, there are very few ways to offer Mankins the chance to recoup the lost salary by reaching incentives without those incentives being NLTBE. That is, converting his salary into 46-man roster bonuses would not changed his 2014 cap number.

Miguel said:

None of us know how much paycut the Patriots wanted Mankins to take.

If I were him, I would have had a hard time agreeing to any paycut that paid me less than Dan Connolly.
If I were him, I would have hada hard time agreeing to any paycut that paid me less than Danny Amendola knowing that 2 million of Amendola's salary became fully guaranteed in March.
If I were him, I would have had a hard time agreeing to any paycut if the Patriots had earlier refused to upgrade my rookie contract stating that a deal is a deal.

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I know it is foolish to argue with Miguel over this type of subject, but we lost SB39 and gained back Patfanken in the last 9 hours, so I'm in a good mood:

No doubt, Vince Wilfork had a problem with that too......and after thinking about it, and getting good counsel, decided the long-term advantages of staying in NE outweighed the short-term benefits of going somewhere else.

Tedy Bruschi could have had an agent and gotten a lot more money. He ridiculously under negotiated for over 12 years. Over his 40 year working life, he'll make a lot more money than Richard Seymour or Deion Branch or Logan Mankins.

Mankins was here 10 years. Just ONE SB ring and an 11-14 year career would have put him in the running for HOF. Over 30 years, an HOF and a SB ring should be worth at least 100K-200K per year in endorsements, appearances, etc. He'll never smell that now.

Plus he won't be on THIS contract next year. No way.

The Boston Patriot said:

Have you ever spent a year or more with an employer where you hated the job, not because of your fellow employees, but due to the work content? A lot of us have and in most instances the last thought going through your mind is about the money you are making if there are plausible alternatives.

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While the majority feel this way there are definitely those out there that would rather be a main cog in a dysfunctional machine than just another cog in a well oiled machine.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

While the majority feel this way there are definitely those out there that would rather be a main cog in a dysfunctional machine than just another cog in a well oiled machine.

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Who? The Captain of the Titanic?


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shmessy said:

Who? The Captain of the Titanic?


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Pretty much. Small companies seem littered with such people.

betterthanthealternative said:

Trade off:

On the one hand, I can have two or three more years of a more pleasant work environment and (perhaps) more professional achievement.

On the other, for every million dollars I save, I am funding another generation of my family for education and security. I'm the only one in my family with the capability and opportunity to do this. Or, if it isn't about family, perhaps it is about a social cause that I care about. Can I really look those people in the eye and say that I've got less money for them just because I want to spend a few years with one employer rather than another?

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There is lots of research indicating people who gain wealth but didn't earn it end up blowing it anyways. But it's still an interesting question and there is no right answer for everyone.

Let me flip that another way though. Imagine being the son or grand-daughter of a local legend. What's the value of that growing up? Your family's reputation can sometimes be closer to royalty in some of these areas. A guy like Bruschi is a good example. He could have potentially made more money but he's beloved in Boston for now and forever. What's that worth? I'm not talking just financially, but the constant smiles and cheers, people always shaking your hand and patting you on the back, love and adulation for the rest of your life. Surely that's worth something.

There are different values to different things depending on the person, and Mankins obviously made it clear what he values the most. It's not right or wrong, it's just what he values. He's not the first to make that value call, and he won't be the last, just as others will find more value in staying with the team.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

Pretty much. Small companies seem littered with such people.

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Maybe that's why they are small!

convertedpatsfan said:

Let me flip that another way though. Imagine being the son or grand-daughter of a local legend. What's the value of that growing up? Your family's reputation can sometimes be closer to royalty in some of these areas. A guy like Bruschi is a good example. He could have potentially made more money but he's beloved in Boston for now and forever. What's that worth? I'm not talking just financially, but the constant smiles and cheers, people always shaking your hand and patting you on the back, love and adulation for the rest of your life. Surely that's worth something.

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Once again, Bruschi will make more over his lifetime, not just in smiles and cheers, but in MONEY also!

The math does work. He's a smart dude. What he gave up in the short term is paying off for him in multiples over the long-term. Don't think for a moment that the Wilfork family didn't see the same equation. Vince was badly emotionally upset (and he still might be). He and Bianca made a savvy calculation, swallowed alot of pride and I think it will pay off very well.

logan, have fun winning going 2-14.LOL

Bo


How does anyone know what Mankins wants to do after his NFL career is over? He has earned enough money to do what he knows makes him happy rather than what others think should make him happy.

shmessy said:

Once again, Bruschi will make more over his lifetime, not just in smiles and cheers, but in MONEY also!

The math does work. He's a smart dude. What he gave up in the short term is paying off for him in multiples over the long-term. Don't think for a moment that the Wilfork family didn't see the same equation. Vince was badly emotionally upset (and he still might be). He and Bianca made a savvy calculation, swallowed alot of pride and I think it will pay off very well.

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I would agree for some, but not all players. For Bru and Vince, makes a ton of sense. They're big names, great in the community, beloved leaders with charismatic personalities. But someone like Mankins (or Seymour) may not get, or even want those types of opportunities. I could see Mankins having a nice quiet retirement when he's done playing, never to be seen again on the national stage.

shmessy said:

I know it is foolish to argue with Miguel over this type of subject, but we lost SB39 and gained back Patfanken in the last 9 hours, so I'm in a good mood:

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Awesome..............

shmessy said:

No doubt, Vince Wilfork had a problem with that too......and after thinking about it, and getting good counsel, decided the long-term advantages of staying in NE outweighed the short-term benefits of going somewhere else.

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The Patriots offered Wilfork a chance to earn back the money.
How could the Patriots do the same for Mankins?

My theory on Mankins is that this is his last year. He will have played 10 years, and made enough money to comfortably retire to his ranch. He was not willing to renegotiate his contract with the Patriots because what mattered the most was his 2014 salary. He's willing to camp out in Tampa for four months to collect 100% of his 2014 salary, before he rides off into the sunset.