Perfect set up for Tyms

Sciz said:

You'd cut a starting safety or #2 TE in favor of a guy who appears to be no higher than sixth on the WR depth chart?

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To be fair, Hoomanawanui is/has been a #3 TE, not a #2..
Not sure I'd call Chung a starting caliber safety.

You're point is taken.

I'd just Bolden, personally, but that's just me

DaBruinz said:

Where do you get the idea that Welker couldn't stick with Miami's offense? Welker led that offense in receiving. The Pats signed him as a restricted free agent and gave up a 2nd and 7th pick for him.

Gotta love the people who just don't have their facts correct.

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Gotta love the people who think other posters are idiots. I'm well aware of how the Welker restricted free agent tender and trade went down. Thank you very much.

Miami's coaches were the idiots. Welker had been extremely productive for them and thinking they could keep him with a restricted free agent tag was a stupid move based on that. If they had seen that he would go on to become perhaps the best slot receiver in the NFL, they would have figured out a way to make him "stick" on their roster.

PatsFan2 said:

As mentioned before Miami cut the once Great Wes Welker did they know he would become as good?

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Cut? Really?

Might want to go do some history reading.

There are going to be some whiners on here when Oct 30th comes and the Patriots announce the release of Tyms.

hwc said:

Gotta love the people who think other posters are idiots. I'm well aware of how the Welker restricted free agent tender and trade went down. Thank you very much.

Miami's coaches were the idiots. Welker had been extremely productive for them and thinking they could keep him with a restricted free agent tag was a stupid move based on that. If they had seen that he would go on to become perhaps the best slot receiver in the NFL, they would have figured out a way to make him "stick" on their roster.

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You are still rewriting history. They gave Welker a high restricted free agent tender and many people were either surprised or shocked that the Pats gave him an offer with a second round tender. Also the Pats structured their offer that made it difficult for the Dolphins to match with their salary cap.

Back in 2007, few if anyone knew that Welker was what he became here. I bet even Belichick and his scouting staff never expect him to be a receiver who caught 100 plus balls year in and year out.

But Tyms and Welker are nothing alike.

One thing about Tyms too is that he had an awesome game vs. the Redskins this preseason where he had 5 catches for 119 yards and a TD, but he only had 6 catches for 69 yards and a TD for the next three preseason games combined. He had one very good preseason game and people are acting like he can start on the team now.

Tyms is far more hype than production. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the practice squad, but there is little to no chance he ever makes the active roster barring injuries.

hwc said:

Gotta love the people who think other posters are idiots. I'm well aware of how the Welker restricted free agent tender and trade went down. Thank you very much.

Miami's coaches were the idiots. Welker had been extremely productive for them and thinking they could keep him with a restricted free agent tag was a stupid move based on that. If they had seen that he would go on to become perhaps the best slot receiver in the NFL, they would have figured out a way to make him "stick" on their roster.

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Clearly you don't read your own posts.. Here, let me help you..

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/goto/post?id=3911394#post-3911394

hwc said:

Wes Welker couldn't stick with Miami's offense, either. I'm not sure that tells us more about a receiver or Miami's offense...

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Your claim was that Welker couldn't stick with Miami's offense. NOT that the coaches were idiots.. So, if anyone thinks your an idiot, you gave them ample justification with your inaccurate claims.

Oh, and since you need reminding. At the end of the 2006 season, Miami was in turmoil. Saban quit leaving Mueller to find a coach and handle free agency. Cam Cameron was hired to be the coach. Cameron had no say on personnel moves. Hell, his entire staff was brand new to the team and they had less than 4 weeks to make player evaluations.. So, if you want to blame Cameron for Mueller not placing higher than a 2nd round grade on Welker, that's your prerogative. To me, it's foolish.

Rob0729 said:

You are still rewriting history. They gave Welker a high restricted free agent tender and many people were either surprised or shocked that the Pats gave him an offer with a second round tender.

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I wasn't shocked at all. The day Miami put the restricted tag on Welker, I knew the Pats would be going after him with an offer sheet. Are you kidding? The Belichick defense is STILL trying to tackle him on some of those plays in Miami. He killed the Pats.

Welker couldn't stick with Miami. They didn't match the Pats offer sheet (which turned into a face-saving "trade" with the 7th rounder thrown in). If they had wanted to keep Welker, they could:

a) have done a long term deal with him
b) matched the Pats offer sheet

It's exactly the same as saying that Spikes "couldn't stick with the Patriots". The Patriots could have made an offer that would have kept him in New England. The whole point is that there are complex reasons why Player X doesn't stay with Team Z.

hwc said:

I wasn't shocked at all. The day Miami put the restricted tag on Welker, I knew the Pats would be going after him with an offer sheet. Are you kidding? The Belichick defense is STILL trying to tackle him on some of those plays in Miami. He killed the Pats.

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You are the exception to the rule. Most people thought that a second rounder was too much to give up for Welker. In three years with the Dolphins, he had 96 catches for 1121 yards and one TD combined. He was not anywhere near a special player down in Miami.

hwc said:

Welker couldn't stick with Miami. They didn't match the Pats offer sheet (which turned into a face-saving "trade" with the 7th rounder thrown in). If they had wanted to keep Welker, they could:

a) have done a long term deal with him
b) matched the Pats offer sheet

It's exactly the same as saying that Spikes "couldn't stick with the Patriots". The Patriots could have made an offer that would have kept him in New England. The whole point is that there are complex reasons why Player X doesn't stay with Team Z.

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You're whacked. It's no where close to being the same and you're attempts to dig yourself out of the hole you created are truly pathetic.

1) When you say someone couldn't stick somewhere, the implication is that he was cut and the team didn't want him. That was NOT the case with Welker in Miami.

2) Miami COULDN'T match the offer sheet because there was a "poison pill" in it.

3) Again, you flat out IGNORE the fact that Saban had just left, Mueller was put in charge, and Cameron just hired.

4) It's no where close to the same thing. Spikes wasn't offered a contract. That is different than Welker with Miami. Miami and Welker HAD talks prior to him being hit with the RFA tag.

Nothing you said previously implies that there are "complex reasons why Player X doesn't stay with Team Z". Nothing. The fact you are trying to say that now is laughable when it contradicts everything you've said.

You clearly misspoke, got caught, and are now trying to CYA after having been called out on it. You've done a poor job in both cases and have tried to re-write history in an attempt to make yourself look like you knew what you were talking about when it's clear as day that you don't.

hwc said:

Welker couldn't stick with Miami. They didn't match the Pats offer sheet (which turned into a face-saving "trade" with the 7th rounder thrown in). If they had wanted to keep Welker, they could:

a) have done a long term deal with him
b) matched the Pats offer sheet

It's exactly the same as saying that Spikes "couldn't stick with the Patriots". The Patriots could have made an offer that would have kept him in New England. The whole point is that there are complex reasons why Player X doesn't stay with Team Z.

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First, once the Pats made an offer to Welker, the only thing they could do was match Welker's offer. They cannot do a deal after an offer is tendered by another team. And the Pats structured the offer in a way that it was near impossible for the Dolphins to match.

Second, the Spikes comparison is not remotely close. The Pats chose to move on from Spikes. The Dolphins wanted to keep Welker. That is why they offered a second round tender. They misjudged the market in that they probably didn't think anyone would give up a second rounder for him.

Third, the Dolphins didn't give him a long term deal going into free agency because their cap was a bit of a mess with a lot of older players making top of the market deals (Zak Thomas, Jason Taylor).

It's quite easy to find a roster spot for Tyms. Vellano and Don Jones are expendable.

PatriotReign said:

It's quite easy to find a roster spot for Tyms. Vellano and Don Jones are expendable.

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So you are going to carry seven WRs ?

Edelman
Amendola
Dobson
Thompkins
LaFell
Slater
Tyms

This board has a weird infatuation with mystery talent.

Rob0729 said:

So you are going to carry seven WRs ?

Edelman
Amendola
Dobson
Thompkins
LaFell
Slater
Tyms

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I wouldn't mind dumpig Lafell. IF Brady isn't gonna look Amendola's way, he sure as **** isn't gonna look Lafell's way. Lafell looks like Ocho Cinco out there. Waste of a roster spot.

JMC00 said:

There are going to be some whiners on here when Oct 30th comes and the Patriots announce the release of Tyms.

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Not me. People are, and have been, wildly overrating him.

scott99 said:

I wouldn't mind dumpig Lafell. IF Brady isn't gonna look Amendola's way, he sure as **** isn't gonna look Lafell's way. Lafell looks like Ocho Cinco out there. Waste of a roster spot.

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It has been two games. They are paying LaFell a lot of money (compared to Tyms) and his cap number would go up if he was cut. So if you are going to waste a roster spot with either guy, why hurt your cap by doing so? Tyms is arguably the most overrated practice squad caliber player since Bam Childress.

Rob0729 said:

In three years with the Dolphins, he had 96 catches for 1121 yards and one TD combined. He was not anywhere near a special player down in Miami.

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In his last year with the Dophins, Welker had:

67 receptions for 687 yards
48 kick returns for 1064 yards
41 punt returns for 378 yards

I would say that 156 touches for 2129 yards would be in the "special player" category. I was surprised that the Dolphins didn't negotiate a deal to keep him. That was clearly a mistake.

hwc said:

In his last year with the Dophins, Welker had:

67 receptions for 687 yards
48 kick returns for 1064 yards
41 punt returns for 378 yards

I would say that 156 touches for 2129 yards would be in the "special player" category. I was surprised that the Dolphins didn't negotiate a deal to keep him. That was clearly a mistake.

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If he was a special player, he would have been tendered a first rounder. He was not a special player in Miami.