Watch out McCourty truthers (top safeties list)

Spiral said:

Let me paraphrase: "He's a good tackler--he just doesn't make very many." OK--got it.

P.S. I'll take any guy who makes 150 tackles a year, even if he misses 20.

Click to expand...

Here is a little help for ya:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8177f4c3/2010-Draft-Vignettes-Devin-McCourty-Rutgers

Marinlik said:

Using only the "tackles made" statistic to show that a free safety is good or bad at tackling is among the most stupid use of statistic for an argument that I've ever seen.

Click to expand...

Spiral is a Super-Genius. I found this photo of Spiral:

Spiral said:

Let me paraphrase: "He's a good tackler--he just doesn't make very many." OK--got it.

P.S. I'll take any guy who makes 150 tackles a year, even if he misses 20.

Click to expand...

So you're taking Barry Church then, who led all free safeties in tackles in 2013. Good luck with your franchise.

I really do think you should watch other teams. A lot of this narrow-minded "opinion" comes from only watching ESPN, where you see good players make good plays, and bad players make bad plays. You don't actually see what happens throughout the game.

Every player makes good and bad plays. It's why people complain about Brady locking in on Jules (19% of targets, 27% of completions) while missing the fact that the Rodgers/Nelson connection is much worse (40% of targets, 38% of completions). They see McCourty in coverage on a TD but don't witness Kam Chancellor (who is a better safety than McCourty) give up 3 TDs to Antonio Gates. They only see bits and pieces of other players, then make broad statements that make absolutely no sense.

The Patriots as a whole are a great tackling team. According to Football Outsiders, we had the 3rd-fewest broken tackles last season. Note McCourty wasn't in the top 12 or bottom 12 for broken tackles so he isn't one of the best or worst.

But I'm sure you've seen every single one of his broken tackles (as well as every other Patriot), yet never see any from Dashon Goldson. You just see a highlight of him jacking someone up and probably assume he's a better safety because all you ever see is him making good plays on ESPN.

So take your Barry Churches and your Dashon Goldsons (leading FS tackler in 2014) over McCourty and Berry and Thomas. Fill up your roster with goal-line RBs who get lots of TDs because those are worth a lot more in your fantasy football league. Just stay away from a real NFL team.

JackBauer said:

Keep McCourty without even a second's thought.

Click to expand...

If BB shared your opinion, wouldn't McCourty already have his new contract?

Spiral said:

If BB shared your opinion, wouldn't McCourty already have his new contract?

Click to expand...

Then, obviously, that makes Revis an afterthought in your mind also.

Spiral said:

If BB shared your opinion, wouldn't McCourty already have his new contract?

Click to expand...

No.

General rule of thumb is if your DB's are getting more tackles than your LB's then your team sucks.

convertedpatsfan said:

They see McCourty in coverage on a TD but don't witness Kam Chancellor (who is a better safety than McCourty) give up 3 TDs to Antonio Gates.

Click to expand...

Chancellor is not a better Free Safety than McCourty. Just like McCourty isn't a better Strong Safety than Chancellor.

Spiral said:

I can if he refuses to make a tackle. He makes Deion Sanders look like Rodney Harrison sometime.

Click to expand...

He's a strong tackler and always has been. You're very clearly grasping at straws here, and you're doing a bad job at it.

Spiral said:

If BB shared your opinion, wouldn't McCourty already have his new contract?

Click to expand...

Do I seriously need to list the players who didn't get a new contract before their old one expired? Because it's a long list full of really good players, headlined by in-his-prime Wilfork (only the most important player on the D at the time).

I read an article many years ago (15?) that did an analysis of tackles by defensive backs vs. perceived defensive back abilities (i.e. where people rank the top defensive backs).

The conclusion was that there was a slight negative correlation i.e. the better defensive backs tended to have lower tackle numbers than the worse defensive backs.

Sorry I don't have a link.

TonyTucker said:

For a guy who supposedly has great range, I never see him anywhere near the play

Click to expand...

Did you miss his interception last week where he came 14+ yards away from the play from the time the ball was released from Cassel's hand to make the pick?

JMC00 said:

Chancellor is not a better Free Safety than McCourty. Just like McCourty isn't a better Strong Safety than Chancellor.

Click to expand...

I understand the point you're trying to make here, although I'd just clarify that I never actually called Chancellor a FS. I mentioned McCourty as a FS a few times so I appreciate where the confusion was. Just wanted to say I agree with BB when he said the lines between the roles are dissipating and consider Chancellor to be the better safety overall despite the positional designation difference.

The Patriots teach their safeties both positions so while McCourty tends to play the role of FS more, he can and does do both depending on what the offense looks like, though I really do look at safeties as one position now and strengths/weaknesses tend to be maximized/minimized by scheme.

VrabelJr said:

Did you miss his interception last week where he came 14+ yards away from the play from the time the ball was released from Cassel's hand to make the pick?

Click to expand...

Listen to BB's comments on the play. He certainly didn't make it sound like it was any kind of superhuman effort:

"He's able to run this one down pretty easily ... I thought we really had good effort and good hustle from the rest of our defensive players to get blocks [on the run-back]."

Spiral said:

Listen to BB's comments on the play. He certainly didn't make it sound like it was any kind of superhuman effort:

"He's able to run this one down pretty easily ... I thought we really had good effort and good hustle from the rest of our defensive players to get blocks [on the run-back]."

Click to expand...

You're using the most unquantifiable garbage for your argument.

Spiral said:

Listen to BB's comments on the play. He certainly didn't make it sound like it was any kind of superhuman effort:

"He's able to run this one down pretty easily ... I thought we really had good effort and good hustle from the rest of our defensive players to get blocks [on the run-back]."

Click to expand...

You need to learn Belichick speak, thats him practically jizzing in his pants.

Spiral said:

Listen to BB's comments on the play. He certainly didn't make it sound like it was any kind of superhuman effort:

"He's able to run this one down pretty easily ... I thought we really had good effort and good hustle from the rest of our defensive players to get blocks [on the run-back]."

Click to expand...

Yeah, Belichick said it was easy for McCourty.

BradyFTW! said:

Do I seriously need to list the players who didn't get a new contract before their old one expired? Because it's a long list full of really good players, headlined by in-his-prime Wilfork (only the most important player on the D at the time).

Click to expand...

Going back a few years, I can't really think of many good players that weren't extended before their rookie deals were up. Wilfork and Mankins come to mind, but there were extenuating circumstances in those cases. For Wilfork, the franchise and transition numbers for DT were fairly low, so the Patriots could always use that option, giving them less incentive to give him a new deal before his contract was up. They tagged Wilfork shortly before signing him, but his tag number ($6.53M) was actually less than the AAV of the contract he signed (5yr/$40M). Mankins was a RFA after his contract was up because of that weird CBA deal, so there was very little incentive to sign him to a new deal before his rookie contract was up. Here are the recent guys I can think of that got new deals before the end of their rookie contracts: Mayo, Ahern, Gronk, Vollmer. Solder's option has been picked up--I don't know if you count that or not. Next year, you'll probably be able to add Chandler Jones to that list.

Spiral said:

Going back a few years, I can't really think of many good players that weren't extended before their rookie deals were up. Wilfork and Mankins come to mind, but there were extenuating circumstances in those cases. For Wilfork, the franchise and transition numbers for DT were fairly low, so the Patriots could always use that option, giving them less incentive to give him a new deal before his contract was up. They tagged Wilfork shortly before signing him, but his tag number ($6.53M) was actually less than the AAV of the contract he signed (5yr/$40M). Mankins was a RFA after his contract was up because of that weird CBA deal, so there was very little incentive to sign him to a new deal before his rookie contract was up. Here are the recent guys I can think of that got new deals before the end of their rookie contracts: Mayo, Ahern, Gronk, Vollmer. Solder's option has been picked up--I don't know if you count that or not. Next year, you'll probably be able to add Chandler Jones to that list.

Click to expand...

You do realize that the team is probably working on contract extensions for a large number of players at the same time? These things, given management demands, market value, team value and management value do not materialize overnight during negotiations.

It's an incredibly poor point of discussion when considering Devin McCourty's excellent level of performance and importance to the secondary.

Madden just updated McCourty to 95 overall and made him tied for the 2nd best safety in the game.

Case Closed.