all 22 film shows Brady is not utilizing all of his weapons

Deus Irae said:

Again. Plain English. Sorry.

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Don't think so. I don't agree that he did anything else than make an open-ended statement that could be finished any way he wanted to, but didn't do so.

Deus Irae said:

you'll never grasp linebackers in the way, QBs on the ground, or play-to-play hypocrisy by the author, because you won't want to. As I noted, McDaniels could be lying. Brady could be getting it right. It can't be both, because McDaniels has said that Brady didn't get it wrong.
The fact that Brady took the receivers into the film room to make sure that they were on the right page supports this even further.

Here's the link about the pics, though:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...zing-all-of-his-weapons.1112094/#post-3910232

edit: Follow up. Here's Jeff Howe...

https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/512324683019325441

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The EP offense, particularly as it currently exists, exist as a concept, not as a system of routes, which is why, when properly executed, it is near-impossible to defend, because there are no "right answers" that a defense could bring to it in that those concepts are coverage-based, not player based, so theoretically, if I read the EP playbook right Brady's read progressions begins with keying off what the safeties are doing. He is not going to read off a backer when he has a 11 personnel on the field.

In an EP concept offense, he isn't going to have a "favorites" read procession, he would theoretically hit the man with the most chance to advance the down, and IMHO he didn't do so in this situation.

AndyJohnson said:

Wasnt Brady 10/11 in the first half? With a big lead where he threw 11 passes in the second half vs 17 runs with 6 of the 11 passes on 3rd or 4th down, while playing it safe protecting a lead, why is it again that there is some reason to find something to criticize Brady about?

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Here's where I think some Patsfans differ

If you are measuring success in completed passes in a half, it looks good

If you are measuring the offense in it's ability to win games, than it's not looking quite as good (and that includes their win which was helped by a great D)

And if you are measuring the offfense in it's ability to be unpredictable when the competition in the playoffs is at it's peak, you are more than a bit worried

That being said, it's September - not December. If Belichick, McDaniels and Brady agree that a diverse offense is the key to winning in February - ensuring that Defenses can't simply gang up on Gronk and Edelman on that one big play that makes or breaks a game - then I'm confident they will work to correct such shortcomings

But they'd have to admit there is a concern first - and as we have seen many fans are blinded by short term fantasy football stats

Deus Irae said:

And there's your error. Look again. Brady's already in mid-throw. This is just another demonstration of poor usage of the all-22 on the part of the author.

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Yes, Brady is already locked in on Edelman. That's his error. Look at the protection he has- it's great. He could have let the play develop a little more. No blitz on the play which rules out hot read.

And that's on top of the SS shading the wrong way the entire time. Bad technique beats you every time, just ask Arrington.

But I will grant you that Balestrieri could have done a better job on the all-22 breakdown including giving us more stills and a sense of how much time has elapsed which would provide us with more information with which to judge the play.

PP2 said:

Yes, Brady is already locked in on Edelman. That's his error. Look at the protection he has- it's great. He could have let the play develop a little more. No blitz on the play which rules out hot read.

And that's on top of the SS shading the wrong way the entire time. Bad technique beats you every time, just ask Arrington.

But I will grant you that Balestrieri could have done a better job on the all-22 breakdown including giving us more stills and a sense of how much time has elapsed which would provide us with more information with which to judge the play.

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No, Brady's not locked in. He's throwing the damned ball. In fact, he's throwing the ball to the only receiver who's open. Meanwhile, Amendola's being defended stride for stride on the outside and has a defender on his inside. The deep safety is sitting 15 yards back, able to move on either receiver, so he's a non factor to the immediacy of the throw.

Covered Amendola with 2 potential tacklers v. wide open Edelman with one man to beat.

Deus Irae said:

No, Brady's not locked in. He's throwing the damned ball. In fact, he's throwing the ball to the only receiver who's open. Meanwhile, Amendola's being defended stride for stride on the outside and has a defender on his inside. The deep safety is sitting back on the hashmark, able to move on either receiver.

Covered Amendola with 2 potential tacklers v. wide open Edelman with one man to beat.

Sheesh.

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One more time, Amendola's man gave up inside leverage on a seam route, I'm not a coach but IIRC that is a cardinal sin. In the still it looks like Amendola is covered stride for stride, but all Brady has to do is lead him a little (throw to his left). The SS is still shaded the wrong way so he is completely helpless because he loses valuable time in flipping his hips.

And again, the single high safety is on the open side of the hashes (wrong side), so by the time he corrects, Amendola has the first down if he had the ball.

And judging by the distance Amendola covers between the first still and the second, I'd say the play had elapsed by about 1.5 seconds, and the OL has the defense pretty much walled off.

Brady could have let things unfold for at least one more second, instead of just lock and fire.

Deus Irae said:

In other words, 3 of the 5 examples are examples where doing what the author recommends would be a bad thing, not a good thing. One is a pass to Gronk and a legit question, given Gronk's level of play. One is a situation where either option would be fine, and the question of progression order is one we don't have the answer to.

Terrible job by the author.

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See he stayed at a Holiday Inn and thought everything he was thinking was right. He really should have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express (he obviously doesn't understand the subtle-ness of the name so how could he even understand a complex offensive scheme and expect that Brady can see 100% of the field in slow motion all the time).

Should redo the old saying. for those who can do, those who can't become critics and believe their own opinion is the truth.

PP2 said:

One more time, Amendola's man gave up inside leverage on a seam route, I'm not a coach but IIRC that is a cardinal sin. In the still it looks like Amendola is covered stride for stride, but all Brady has to do is lead him a little (throw to his left). The SS is still shaded the wrong way so he is completely helpless because he loses valuable time in flipping his hips.

And again, the single high safety is on the open side of the hashes (wrong side), so by the time he corrects, Amendola has the first down if he had the ball.

And judging by the distance Amendola covers between the first still and the second, I'd say the play had elapsed by about 1.5 seconds, and the OL has the defense pretty much walled off.

Brady could have let things unfold for at least one more second, instead of just lock and fire.

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Edelman's run a stop route. If Brady waits, coverage can get to Edelman, That you even consider waiting to be a good idea should be telling you that you're not looking at this without a really bad bias.

And the safety is in position to intercept a pass to Amendola with just a step or two to his left, which he can easily make.

Deus Irae said:

If he waits, coverage can get to Edelman, because Edelman's run a stop route. That you even consider that a good idea should be telling you that you're not looking at this without a really bad bias.

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That's assuming Edelman was or is his primary target. If he had waited, he would have certainly found Amendola the better option especially since in the 2nd still he appears to be already beating his man on top of winning inside leverage.

Deus Irae said:

And the safety is in position to intercept the ball with just a step or two to his left.

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Yet as I keep pointing out, he is shaded the wrong way. There is absolutely no way he flips his hips and manages to keep up with a streaking Amendola, who has the advantage of already being at full speed heading in a direction that the SS has his back to.

You are assuming that Brady would throw a dart pass that the SS could intercept, but since this is a go route up the seam, Brady's throw would arc over the SS.

PP2 said:

That's assuming Edelman was or is his primary target. If he had waited, he would have certainly found Amendola the better option especially since in the 2nd still he appears to be already beating his man on top of winning inside leverage.

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No, that's not assuming Edelman was, or is, his primary target. That's knowing the routes.

PP2 said:

Yet as I keep pointing out, he is shaded the wrong way. There is absolutely no way he flips his hips and manages to keep up with a streaking Amendola, who has the advantage of already being at full speed heading in a direction that the SS has his back to.

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You don't keep pointing out. You keep asserting. Different things. This is why I brought up the fact that the picture is too late into Brady's throw. The safety is in position, and he's been drifting up towards the play, which means that he's closer to Brady now than he was when Brady first began his throw to the left. Had Brady been throwing to the right, we're looking at a potential INT, as the safety would have been further back and able to break on the ball. Instead, Brady's throwing to the wide open receiver.

PP2 said:

You are assuming that Brady would throw a dart pass that the SS could intercept, but since this is a go route up the seam, Brady's throw would arc over the SS.

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No, I'm 'assuming' the obvious, and it's not an assumption at all. The passing lane has a safety in it. You are assuming the primary defender, with excellent coverage, has lost his ability to use his hands to bat the ball away, and the safety in position to pick off the pass, is incapable of any movement.

This comes down to you wanting Brady to throw into coverage because it would be to someone not named Edelman. You're welcome to have that wish, but Brady's decision is the right one.

It's over. Pats won. There's a game in about 100 hours. Clean the table and get the next carcass ready for dissection.

what ever happened to "we need to wait 8 games into the season to even begin to see what we really have"?

Joker said:

It's over. Pats won. There's a game in about 100 hours. Clean the table and get the next carcass ready for dissection.

what ever happened to "we need to wait 8 games into the season to even begin to see what we really have"?

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Joker if Brady doesn't complete 75% of his passes, throws to every wr and TE and the fans in the stands, for a total of 12 Tds and 600 yards we are, and I repeat complete garbage.

Brady6 said:

Brady since the 2007 when Welker arrived has targeted Welker at least 25% of the time, with an average of 27% over Welker’s 6 seasons. Last season Edelman saw 25% of Brady’s targets. This season Edelman is seeing 19.2% of Brady’s passes, which is the lowest percent of their QBs targets of any WR in the NFL who ranks in the top 15 for catches. Edelman has caught 80% of the passes, you are way off if you think there is a problem here The top option in an offense receiving 19.2% of the QBs targets is on the low end of the threshold. Edelman is on pace for 31 less targets this season than last.

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The only reason Edelman's numbers are lower is because Brady hit something like 5 different receivers in the first half of the Miami game. Through the next six quarters of play, the pass protection hasn't held up nearly as well and the balls have been going to Edelman and Gonk the majority of the time. When you compare that fact with the small sample size, your percentages are going to be skewed.

This article is half ass; the offense struggled in the second half of the Miami game because of the OL play. Other than that, Brady had a commanding lead at half time, on the road playing in a piece of crap college stadium with garbage turf, so they controlled the clock, he ran the football and threw the ball to the receivers he trusted the most to avoid turnovers that could turn into quick points.

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I've said as much. I also said that when the pass protection is up to snuff, Brady will begin distributing the ball more. If he doesn't trust his pass protection, he's going to ge the ball out quickly and to receivers he trusts the most on thos option routes. Give him time and he'll find the receiver that's in the best position to do the most damage.

I do not see an issue, Brady had a 24-7 lead at halftime, was he supposed to come out and air it out so the Vikings could get a pick 6 or something?

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If that was their best chance of moving the ball and churning up first downs while killing T.O.P., they would have. We've seen situations with the Pats time and time again where they went bombs away in the second half, even with a big lead.

the funny thing is, for all those saying the Offense is fine and all these people are wrong, it seems Tom Brady and McDaniels would disagree with you.

both of their recent comments seem to suggest that they would like to spread the ball around to more receivers.

now, i'm not going to take much from one game. it seems like against the vikings, once they got that lead they decided coming into the 2nd half they would play very conservative, run the ball, eat the clock and not make too many mistakes that could put the vikings back in it.

RIpats88 said:

the funny thing is, for all those saying the Offense is fine and all these people are wrong, it seems Tom Brady and McDaniels would disagree with you.
both of their recent comments seem to suggest that they would like to spread the ball around to more receivers.

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To underscore your point:

"I think offensively we could certainly stand to get a lot more balance into our attack overall, period," head coach Bill Belichick said on a conference call on Tuesday. "We didn't have it in the run-pass ratio in Miami and we didn't really have enough of it in the passing game last week or really for Miami for that matter. We have to do a better job as a coaching staff. I have to do a better job of creating a little more balance on our team offensively with our personnel, our play calling, our plays and so forth.

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http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...must_make_use_of_all_of_new_englands_pas.html
Raiders offer a nice opportunity for the offense.

Mack Herron said:

To underscore your point:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2014/09/tom_brady_must_make_use_of_all_of_new_englands_pas.html

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It might be interesting to look how he listed the factors for the offense being somewhat of a three man show: Personnel, play calling, and plays (I assume he's talking about execution here). I think most of us can agree.

Raiders offer a nice opportunity for the offense.

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On the ground, they do. They're actually a pretty competent unit, defensively, against the pass. It would be nice to finally hand a Justin Tuck team a loss, though.

KontradictioN said:

It might be interesting to look how he listed the factors for the offense being somewhat of a three man show: Personnel, play calling, and plays (I assume he's talking about execution here). I think most of us can agree.



On the ground, they do. They're actually a pretty competent unit, defensively, against the pass. It would be nice to finally hand a Justin Tuck team a loss, though.

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Agreed, but as we have come to expect from this leadership, Belichick and Brady each immediately point to themselves first. Difficult to sort out all the details, but fairly easy to see in the big picture. Thanks for pointing out Oakland's run/pass disparity on defense.

mgteich said:

Before I comment, I want to give you a chance to clarify. Is it your position that all that the patriots need in the passing game in addition to the "big three (Edelman, Gronk and Vereen)" is a downfield receiver to catch 4-6 balls per game?

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Yes, if Brady throws 25 balls a game, you expect Edelman/Gronk to get about 15-16 of those, Vereen 5+, and hopefully another one gets 4-6

KontradictioN said:

On the ground, they do. They're actually a pretty competent unit, defensively, against the pass. It would be nice to finally hand a Justin Tuck team a loss, though.

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In terms of yardage given up they look good against the pass but that lack of yardage in the passing game comes from giving up 400 yards on the ground meaning teams don't really need to pass. When the other team does pass though they have a QB of rating of 109.7 which is good for 3rd worst defense in the league with a leagues worst 77.1% completion.

There is no conflict between these statements.

The offense is fine.

The offense needs improvement.

Big-T said:

In terms of yardage given up they look good against the pass but that lack of yardage in the passing game comes from giving up 400 yards on the ground meaning teams don't really need to pass. When the other team does pass though they have a QB of rating of 109.7 which is good for 3rd worst defense in the league with a leagues worst 77.1% completion.

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Hopefully we can see the passing game get more multi-faceted this weekend. It will, of course, all depend on whether the OL can keep Brady upright.