Watch out McCourty truthers (top safeties list)

Spiral said:

In 2013, his 48 unassisted tackles placed him in 85th among all DB's, including cornerbacks.

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I guess I have to spell it out for you:

- Devin McCourty is a Free Safety
- Free Safeties are the furthest player away from the line of scrimmage
- Within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage is where an overwhelming majority of plays tend to happen
- Being a good tackler isn't determined by a player's total number of tackles
- Being a good tackler is determined by total tackle opportunities divided by missed tackles

VrabelJr said:

I guess I have to spell it out for you:

- Devin McCourty is a Free Safety
- Free Safeties are the furthest player away from the line of scrimmage
- Within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage is where an overwhelming majority of plays tend to happen
- Being a good tackler isn't determined by a player's total number of tackles
- Being a good tackler is determined by total tackle opportunities divided by missed tackles

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Thanks for spelling this out for me. Now let me count it out for you. In 2013, according to NFL.com, Devin McCourty ranked 23rd among free safeties in unassisted tackles.

Spiral said:

Thanks for spelling this out for me. Now let me count it out for you. In 2013, according to NFL.com, Devin McCourty ranked 23rd among free safeties in unassisted tackles.

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So you think by repeating yourself, that somehow addresses or obviates his point? Since when does the quantity of unassisted tackles reflect on how adept a player is at tackling?

JackBauer said:

So you think by repeating yourself, that somehow addresses or obviates his point? Since when does the quantity of unassisted tackles reflect on how adept a player is at tackling?

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OK, so assuming that you've taken up the argument, let's discuss the following statement:

"Being a good tackler is determined by total opportunities divided by missed tackles." Please indicate where the statistics on "total tackle opportunities" and missed tackles can be found, so that we can continue this discussion. Otherwise, thanks for your opinion.

Spiral said:

OK, so assuming that you've taken up the argument, let's discuss the following statement:

"Being a good tackler is determined by total opportunities divided by missed tackles." Please indicate where the statistics on "total tackle opportunities" and missed tackles can be found, so that we can continue this discussion. Otherwise, thanks for your opinion.

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Wait a minute. You're the one who claimed McCourty was a lousy tackler. If you don't even know where the stats are you'd need to advance such an argument, aren't you implicitly acknowledging that your argument is completely baseless and without merit?

I said he wasn't a good tackler and I provided the statistics from NFL.com to support that statement. Last year, he was 23rd among all FS. Vrabel Jr. said he was good tackler, stating that "being a good tackler is determined by total tackle opportunities divided by missed tackles." I suspect that "total tackle opportunities" is some BS stat that doesn't really exist, so I'm asking where that particular statistic can be found. Maybe you can help Vrabel Jr. out.

The statistics you provided didn't, in fact, support your statement. Someone who makes 150 tackles but misses 20 isn't a good tackler. Looking at the number of tackles in isolation tells you almost nothing. I feel like I'll need a shower after posting this, but:

What makes McCourty so good as a safety is his athleticism, technique and tackling efficiency. McCourty missed the least amount of tackles (five) last season among safeties with at least 900 snaps, according to Pro Football Focus.

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http://nesn.com/2014/09/devin-mccourty-tasked-with-stopping-cordarrelle-pattersons-big-plays/

While McCourty doesn't make a huge number of tackles (which makes sense, since he's almost always in center field), he's very efficient with the ones he does (or doesn't) make.

Let me paraphrase: "He's a good tackler--he just doesn't make very many." OK--got it.

P.S. I'll take any guy who makes 150 tackles a year, even if he misses 20.

Spiral said:

Let me paraphrase: "He's a good tackler--he just doesn't make very many." OK--got it.

P.S. I'll take any guy who makes 150 tackles a year, even if he misses 20.

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Thank god you're not our coach.

Darrelle Revis only had 32 tackles in 2010. Where does that place him in your list of top corner backs of that year?

Using only the "tackles made" statistic to show that a free safety is good or bad at tackling is among the most stupid use of statistic for an argument that I've ever seen.

I think that the Pats where among the best teams last season when it came to not missing tackles accordin to PFF. I might be wrong here, but that's what I remember. I know what many here think of PFF, but stay with me here. Could it be that our front 7 guys doesn't miss that many tackles, so the number of opportunities for the FS to make a tackle aren't that many?

The number of tackles stat doesn't really say a lot in by it self. A high number of tackles for a safety might mean that he plays close to the box a lot, or that the front 7 are bad tacklers so the FS gets a lot of opportunities, or he is just a very good tackler. A low tackle count can mean that the front 7 is good at tackling that the corners are too, so the FS doesn't get many opportunuties. Or he is a bad tackler.

Just looking at the stat "tackles" won't say why the player has many or few tackles. If you, @Spiral, want to have any argument here then I suggest that you make a couple of clips of McCourty missing tackles that he should have made. Or you and Triumph can go curl up in the couch by the fireplace and tell each other stories of how awful McCourty is.

Spiral said:

Let me paraphrase: "He's a good tackler--he just doesn't make very many." OK--got it.

P.S. I'll take any guy who makes 150 tackles a year, even if he misses 20.

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Can't fathom why you'd want your deep safety racking up a bunch of tackles, as this would indicate that the rest of the defense probably sucks.

I wish Tackle Chances and Tackles Missed were official stats.

JMC00 said:

I wish Tackle Chances and Tackles Missed were official stats.

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Agreed. Sometimes you can find them if you Google real hard, but only for the most popular players. I remember seeing Luke Kuechly's missed tackles stats and he actually had a pretty bad year last year, compared to his rookie year anyway.

Spiral said:

Let me paraphrase: "He's a good tackler--he just doesn't make very many." OK--got it.

P.S. I'll take any guy who makes 150 tackles a year, even if he misses 20.

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So you would rather take a guy who allows 170 receptions a year?

So you would rather have Barry Church than McCourty right now?

chasa said:

So you would rather take a guy who allows 170 receptions a year?

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Let me see if I have your formula correct: Tackles + missed tackles = receptions allowed. Do I have that right?

JMC00 said:

So you would rather have Barry Church than McCourty right now?

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No, not this year.

Next year, Church's cap number will be $2.25M. McCourty's cap number in 2015 (if he gets what he thinks he's worth) will be in the neighborhood of $9M, or four times as much. WWBD?

Spiral said:

No, not this year.

Next year, Church's cap number will be $2.25M. McCourty's cap number in 2015 (if he gets what he thinks he's worth) will be in the neighborhood of $9M, or four times as much. WWBD?

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Keep McCourty without even a second's thought.

Spiral said:

Let me see if I have your formula correct: Tackles + missed tackles = receptions allowed. Do I have that right?

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in this scenario yes, If a safety is involved in 170 tackles(made and missed) it means he's not doing his job by breaking up passes, either that or he is the only one playing defense.

chasa said:

I love it Triumph hating on him after he makes another huge play.

Everyone should add triumph to ignore let him live out the rest of his days talking to nobody about how mccourty never makes a big play, and that any "big play" he makes isnt a big deal because insert some brand new benchmark triumph just made up.

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What do I need to do to make you babies happy?

Join the DMC fan club?