Amendola

50-yard-line said:

So, are we completely ignoring or dismissing the proposition that a significant part of a receiver's success will depend on the QB and the scheme/play-calling?

Ben Rothlisberger's ability to extend plays made Mike Wallace (which is why if you give Tannehill time, Wallace will kill you).

Marino made good receivers great.

Peyton Manning makes his receivers great (and gets some of them killed, but that's another thread) - has any receiver ever failed with the guy? Garcon? Collie? Tammie?

If the Patriots had signed Manny Sanders and Danny Amendola wound up in Denver, my guess is that we'd still be having this conversation, with the names moved around - and I was a big Manny Sanders' proponent and was pissed when they low-balled his offer and could have easily stolen him from Pittsburgh.

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Outside of Amendola can you think of a WR or TE that lined up in the slot and did not have success with the Patriots. For years we have heard that the system makes Brown, Welker, and Edelman successful. Amendola is the opposite? The system prevents Amendola who lines up in the slot from being successful. That does not make sense to me, when Amendola enters the game Edelman has to move outside and run routes that do not play to his strengths against stiffer defensive competition and he still gets open faster and more often than Amendola who is playing in his comfort zone (slot) against a lesser DB. If you ask me Amendola is setup to succeed he just is not doing what he has to do to get the ball.

Brady6 said:

Outside of Amendola can you think of a WR or TE that lined up in the slot and did not have success with the Patriots. For years we have heard that the system makes Brown, Welker, and Edelman successful. Amendola is the opposite? The system prevents Amendola who lines up in the slot from being successful. That does not make sense to me, when Amendola enters the game Edelman has to move outside and run routes that do not play to his strengths against stiffer defensive competition and he still gets open faster and more often than Amendola who is playing in his comfort zone (slot) against a lesser DB. If you ask me Amendola is setup to succeed he just is not doing what he has to do to get the ball.

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Exactly. We all wanted to DA to succeed and do what Wes did for us. DA has struggled and Mini-tron has taken over. What drives me nuts is the people who dislike mini-tron because he did better than the high-priced free agent DA. DA needs to pick it up or he won't even see the field.

Brady6 said:

Outside of Amendola can you think of a WR or TE that lined up in the slot and did not have success with the Patriots. For years we have heard that the system makes Brown, Welker, and Edelman successful. Amendola is the opposite? The system prevents Amendola who lines up in the slot from being successful. That does not make sense to me, when Amendola enters the game Edelman has to move outside and run routes that do not play to his strengths against stiffer defensive competition and he still gets open faster and more often than Amendola who is playing in his comfort zone (slot) against a lesser DB. If you ask me Amendola is setup to succeed he just is not doing what he has to do to get the ball.

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I'm pretty certain no one on this board is ever going to ask you to speak about Amendola.

http://patspub.patsfans.com/2014/09/16/all-22-look-says-brady-not-using-all-his-weapons/

Hate to interrupt the pissing contest, but this article contains screen shots from the All-22 view and the author is coming to the conclusion that Brady is effectively freezing out receivers not named Gronkowski and Edelman. One could make the argument that he's not going through his progressions properly because he either doesn't trust the other WR's, he doesn't trust pass protection to hold up, or both. But these screen shots are pretty compelling evidence that Brady is, at times, forcing the ball to Edelman and Gronk when other options appear to have some real estate in front of them for bigger completions.

Gotta admit AJ, that JAG turned into quite a player.

KontradictioN said:

http://patspub.patsfans.com/2014/09/16/all-22-look-says-brady-not-using-all-his-weapons/

Hate to interrupt the pissing contest, but this article contains screen shots from the All-22 view and the author is coming to the conclusion that Brady is effectively freezing out receivers not named Gronkowski and Edelman. One could make the argument that he's not going through his progressions properly because he either doesn't trust the other WR's, he doesn't trust pass protection to hold up, or both. But these screen shots are pretty compelling evidence that Brady is, at times, forcing the ball to Edelman and Gronk when other options appear to have some real estate in front of them for bigger completions.

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That's pretty clear watching the games. My view is that Gronk is still a big target in the middle (and I'm afraid Brady can manning him if insisting to much on Gronk) and Edelman can get open consistently.

The protection is also a fair point, I don't remember the last time Brady had a clear pocket, like those when he keeps the ball for seconds giving those little jumps reading everything.

KontradictioN said:

http://patspub.patsfans.com/2014/09/16/all-22-look-says-brady-not-using-all-his-weapons/

Hate to interrupt the pissing contest, but this article contains screen shots from the All-22 view and the author is coming to the conclusion that Brady is effectively freezing out receivers not named Gronkowski and Edelman. One could make the argument that he's not going through his progressions properly because he either doesn't trust the other WR's, he doesn't trust pass protection to hold up, or both. But these screen shots are pretty compelling evidence that Brady is, at times, forcing the ball to Edelman and Gronk when other options appear to have some real estate in front of them for bigger completions.

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That's exacty who I Blame Mr. GOAT but don't tell that to the experts here because Brady so infallible. I gurantee if he pulls that crap against the Jets or Buffalo we are getting our @sses kicked. It's force it to Edelman or Gronk and skip it to the other WR's feet. If I was a WR not named the obvious I wouldn't run my routes all out...WR's have egos and that a fact. Brady is playing like a deer in headlights rookie steering down his favorite targets he doesn't even look the Safeties off anymore. That will work against crap teams like Minnesota and the Raiders but not against the Jets or Buffalo I am glad Teams in our division have bridged the gap there is no more two easy wins anywhere. We are playing real Teams soon who could easily expose this Offense the way it currently is. Brady take a lesson from Phillip Rivers in spreading the ball around that how you use to play!

Deus Irae said:

Amendola should be getting open fast enough that the OL isn't an issue. Edelman doesn't break loose as fast as Welker, but Brady is able to target him, even as an outside receiver, and find him open. The issue with Amendola may be something as simple as Brady not looking his way, or as problematic as him not getting open, but the OL shouldn't be a significant determinant.

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Ice_Ice_Brady said:

lol... you can't be serious.

You failed to mention that Randy Moss played with Brady for 16 healthy games in 2007, 16 unhealthy games in 2009, and 2 games in 2010.

"The most talented tight end ever to step on a field"- I love Gronk, he is awesome, but A) he can't stay healthy, and B) as a pure pass catcher, and therefore as someone who would make the passing game look better, there are about six tight ends in football right now who can do that. Gronk is awesome primarily because of his blocking and pass catching skills combo. Any way you look at it, I would hardly say that having Gronk from 2011-present, with all of the injuries, would fill in for all of the deficiencies on offense.

Brees has always had a much better offense than Brady. The Saints have a bunch of B+ caliber players at every skill position and a great offensive line. Brees has 2-3 outside guys each year that are highly capable of big plays.

"Insanely good" is an understatement for Manning. He has never even had a season where he has less than TWO pro-bowl caliber outside receivers. In Indy, it was Harrison and Wayne, two Hall of Fame caliber players. In Denver, it's D. Thomas and Decker/Sanders, and you can sprinkle in a whole bunch of other weapons like Stokley, Clark, Faulk, Garcon, J. Thomas, Welker, etc. etc. I have no idea how Manning is known as "the whole team" when GMs do everything in their power to give him more weapons than a US Nuclear Stockpile. Outside receivers stretch the field and he can do whatever he wants underneath. Brady has had exactly one outside receiver for two years who was even a major threat.

Better than Marino's cast? I guess you have not heard of the Marx brothers.

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Yes. Agree with entire post

Most people on this board who want Edelman as there number 1 WR should have there heads checked, first off he is a very good wideout but against elite defenses he will be reduced to below average. Amendola was a save face signing and the rest of the wideouts including Dobson are question marks. Meanwhile the sun will soon set on brady's career and we will be talking about what could have been done. And for those talking about how far we got with this receiving core it was the freaking run game that steam rolled us to the afccg with a sprinkle of pass. And we all know how that ended, I don't know what can be done as i'm not as smart as the patriots brass but Brady deserves a receiver that can make him look better and give him a bigger margin of error like other elite quarterbacks have.

KontradictioN said:

http://patspub.patsfans.com/2014/09/16/all-22-look-says-brady-not-using-all-his-weapons/

Hate to interrupt the pissing contest, but this article contains screen shots from the All-22 view and the author is coming to the conclusion that Brady is effectively freezing out receivers not named Gronkowski and Edelman. One could make the argument that he's not going through his progressions properly because he either doesn't trust the other WR's, he doesn't trust pass protection to hold up, or both. But these screen shots are pretty compelling evidence that Brady is, at times, forcing the ball to Edelman and Gronk when other options appear to have some real estate in front of them for bigger completions.

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In the future please don't bring this kind of reality to these threads, it detracts from their real purpose.


I think Brady lacks confidence in his protection and that's what Belichick is trying to fix first, walk before running, and as they develop better protection and Brady feels more comfortable with it we will see them evolve towrads the kind of offense we have seen from them over the past 13 or so years. I also think that Brady realizes he's not doing a good enough job, and that always leads towards the fix.

Ivan said:

As I said joker, I apologize for my role in monopolizing this discussion. In fact if you try this exercise you will see just how detrimental i have been. Put me on ignore and you will see that the thread actually goes from 11 pages to 1 1/2. I know, i put myself on ignore and that's what happened. All the incredibly narcissistic and obsessive compulsive posts disappeared and all that was left was cool clear headed and logical posts that reflected the real destruction Danny Amendola has wreaked on this team through the first 1/8 of the season. The truth is that the Patriots would be 5-0 without him, yet they are just 1-1 with him.

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I appreciate, as does almost every single Pats fan poster, your admission of mental illness and your promise to no longer monopolize the forum with your boring, delusional, repetitive and monotonous posts. The board will be a better place because of it and YOU will become a better poster by making these admissions concerning your mental illness and obsessiveness. It's about time. I just hope you stick to your words THIS time.

Joker said:

I appreciate, as does almost every single Pats fan poster, your admission of mental illness and your promise to no longer monopolize the forum with your boring, delusional, repetitive and monotonous posts. The board will be a better place because of it and YOU will become a better poster by making these admissions concerning your mental illness and obsessiveness. It's about time. I just hope you stick to your words THIS time.

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Thanks for the support joker, it means the world to me.

PatsFan2 said:

Gotta admit AJ, that JAG turned into quite a player.

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Yes he did.

Joker said:

I appreciate, as does almost every single Pats fan poster, your admission of mental illness and your promise to no longer monopolize the forum with your boring, delusional, repetitive and monotonous posts. The board will be a better place because of it and YOU will become a better poster by making these admissions concerning your mental illness and obsessiveness. It's about time. I just hope you stick to your words THIS time.

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I have been off my meds for about a year now and every time Amendola's name comes up i can't resist the urge to start tugging on my junk and writing about him. I want to stop because I have been chafing and i know it is pissing people off i just can't help myself. Once again, my apologies to you, the board, and my junk.

Ivan said:

In the future please don't bring this kind of reality to these threads, it detracts from their real purpose.


I think Brady lacks confidence in his protection and that's what Belichick is trying to fix first, walk before running, and as they develop better protection and Brady feels more comfortable with it we will see them evolve towrads the kind of offense we have seen from them over the past 13 or so years. I also think that Brady realizes he's not doing a good enough job, and that always leads towards the fix.

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Marcus Cannon and Jordan Devey are not going morph into Steve Hutchinson and Alan Faneca overnight.

KontradictioN said:

http://patspub.patsfans.com/2014/09/16/all-22-look-says-brady-not-using-all-his-weapons/

Hate to interrupt the pissing contest, but this article contains screen shots from the All-22 view and the author is coming to the conclusion that Brady is effectively freezing out receivers not named Gronkowski and Edelman. One could make the argument that he's not going through his progressions properly because he either doesn't trust the other WR's, he doesn't trust pass protection to hold up, or both. But these screen shots are pretty compelling evidence that Brady is, at times, forcing the ball to Edelman and Gronk when other options appear to have some real estate in front of them for bigger completions.

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Well the implication of the story is that they are all weapons, but Brady may not view them as weapons, we have seen him shut receivers out in the past like Chad Johnson when he did not feel they were worthy of being included.

When you look at the numbers, why would Brady throw the football to Amendola or LaFell over Edelman? Edelman has been targeted 15 times resulting in 12 catches, which means 80% of the time he catches the football, he has 176 yards, which is 14.7 yards a catch and 11.73 yards a target, Edelman also has 8 first downs and 1 touchdown. Amendola has been targeted 6 times resulting in 3 catches, which is a catch 50% of the time, he has 16 yards, which is 5.3 yards a catch and 2.6 yards per target. LaFell has been targeted 6 times resulting in 0 catches. I look at that and I say keep throwing the ball to the player who catches it and gains nearly 15 yards 80% of the time. Therefore, I am not taking targets from Edelman, because they are productive. That leaves Gronkowski and Dobson, if anything I see those 2 players getting more targets in future weeks.

In short I disagree with the fact that the problem is Brady not using all his “weapons” because in the first 2 weeks Brady’s lack of success has been when he has thrown someplace other than Edelman or Gronkowski for the most part. LaFell and Amendola have been targeted 12 times combined for a total of 3 catches and 16 yards, if they are not doing anything with the targets they are getting now why the hell would Brady give them more.

I would like to see the ball continue to go Edelman’s way because I do not think 7.5 targets a game is a lot, it projects to 120 targets, which would be 30 less than Edelman saw last season. I would also like to see them bring Gronkowski along as they have been, include Dobson more, and incorporate Wright in a 2 TE set.

felger is annoying the way he isnt showing bedard enough respect......they bring bedard in for football credibility and then he dominates the conversation to use bedard for his own point of view

stop it mike

ATippett56 said:

Marcus Cannon and Jordan Devey are not going morph into Steve Hutchinson and Alan Faneca overnight.

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I seriosuly doubt anyone here believes they will, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect their protection and overall OL play to improve over the course of the season. New coach, new moving pieces, it's not unusual to have some breakdowns, we just need to see improvement over time. And as much as i want them to continue rebuilding their DL a high pick on a top flight guard next season is really in order next draft imo.

james87654 said:

felger is annoying

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Could've stopped right there.

ATippett56 said:

Marcus Cannon and Jordan Devey are not going morph into Steve Hutchinson and Alan Faneca overnight.

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Marcus Cannon has more decisive 1on1 wins than any OL on the team in the first 2 weeks, so I do not think he is the problem. I think Devey is a short term thing, until they get Stork up and running.