Pope to marry folks already shacking up with"love" children...

A huge development for the Catholics.. what is next? Does the conservative part of this institution know about this???

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/pope-marries-couples-children/2014/09/12/id/594397/

Pope Francis is making good on his insistance that the Catholic Church welcome all faithful — not just those who obey church teaching perfectly. He'll marry 20 couples this weekend, including some who already live together and those with children, technically a sin in the eyes of the church.

Sunday's mass wedding in St. Peter's Basilica was timed to coincide with the start of a major two-year study by the Vatican of a host of issues affecting family life, including premarital sex, contraception and divorce.

The diocese of Rome, which is organizing the ceremony, said the couples range in age from those in their mid-20s to those in their 50s and include "those who are already living together, those who already have children, those who met in church."

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the 8 by 10 glossies.. all the brides wore white.

Where's RI Pats Fan?

DarrylS said:

the 8 by 10 glossies.. all the brides wore white.

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I am sure that will rub somebody the wrong way.

Reminds me of:

Matt Chandler - Jesus Wants the Rose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuGYh6QDNYY

Better to get married than to be involved with sexual immorality.

Why would this bother me....lol? It isn't against church teaching to marry those with children or living together. It happens all the time. Heck, widows with children get remarried all the time as well.

Although living together is wrong and premartial sex is wrong, there is no church doctrine which teaches against marrying couples who live together although some bishops and priest will decline to marry couples if they live together.

"Pope John Paul II recognized that couples can enter into cohabitation ("free unions") for various reasons. He urged pastors and the church community to become familiar with these situations on a case-by-case basis. "They should make tactful and respectful contact with the couples concerned and enlighten them patiently, correct them charitably and show them the witness of Christian family life in such a way as to smooth the path for them to regularize their situation."


http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...-It-Good-to-Live-Together-Before-Marriage.pdf


Jon Paul II addressed this subject years ago saying that if we deny co-habitating couples the ability to marry then we take away the thing that will keep them from sinning.


"Cohabitation, though not a canonical impediment to marriage, violates the Catholic church's teaching on marriage and sexual love. Pastoral ministers helping Catholic couples prepare for the sacrament are urged to encourage them to regularize such situations prior to marrying."


http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-...-spouses-make-each-other-better-men-and-women

Once more, the Progressive media is clueless......they don't understand Catholicism and will never understand Catholicism.

This stuff happens "all the time" that is why it is so groundbreaking... good for Pope Francis to has done this quite different practice... marrying people "living in sin" is different, not sure if they are living in Venial or Mortal sin...

Popes rarely perform wedding ceremonies, the last times being in 1994 and 2000 by Pope John Paul II, so this action is a statement...

2349 "People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single."136 Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:
There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.137
2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity

2400 Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offenses against the dignity of marriage

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DarrylS said:

This stuff happens "all the time" that is why it is so groundbreaking... good for Pope Francis to has done this quite different practice... marrying people "living in sin" is different, not sure if they are living in Venial or Mortal sin...

Popes rarely perform wedding ceremonies, the last times being in 1994 and 2000 by Pope John Paul II, so this action is a statement...

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It isn't "groundbreaking" to marry a man and a woman who have children and/or are living together....that's my point. He's merely following Jon Paul II's lead. Living together is wrong.....getting married isn't wrong.

Read my post next time.

Sorry...gotta go with RIP on this one. Having a child does not preclude a catholic wedding. Living together does not preclude a Catholic wedding. Neither of them ever did. The Catholics are a forgiving bunch.....go to confession, be sorry, sin absolved.

Sad to say, in a way, but cohabitating couples tend to go to confession sometime before the wedding, confess to premarital sex, do their penance, get their absolution, go home and refrain from sex until after the wedding ceremony.

Living together is not the "sin." The sex is the sin. Don't have the sex, there is no sin.

This is so not a big deal in terms of who was being married. May be a big deal that the pope performed the ceremony - may be a big deal that it was performed in the Vatican - but the fact that someone had a child already or that some of the people were living together - ho-hum.

RI Patriots fan said:

Although living together is wrong and premartial sex is wrong, there is no church doctrine which teaches against marrying couples who live together although some bishops and priest will decline to marry couples if they live together.

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Just curious....I was always under the impression that it was only the sex which was a sin....how is living with someone of the opposite (or even the same) sex a sin if there is no sex involved?

DarrylS said:

the 8 by 10 glossies.. all the brides wore white.

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So what?

RI Patriots fan said:

It isn't "groundbreaking"...that's my point.

Read my post next time.

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Mrs.PatsFanInVa said:

Just curious....I was always under the impression that it was only the sex which was a sin....how is living with someone of the opposite (or even the same) sex a sin if there is no sex involved?

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"Living together", in these cases, assumes a sexual relationship. These people are engaged to be married so I think it's reasonable to assume that they are having sex.

But if a guy and a girl are roommates and there is no sexual relationship then there is no sin.

This stuff does not happen "all the time" that is why it is so groundbreaking... good for Pope Francis to has done this quite different practice... marrying people "living in sin" is different, not sure if they are living in Venial or Mortal sin...

Popes rarely perform wedding ceremonies, the last times being in 1994 and 2000 by Pope John Paul II, so this action is a statement...

This has never been done before by a Pontiff.. that is the difference... it is very unusual, while it may not be a big deal to many, but to the inner sanctum of Catholicism it is earthshattering... BTW the white dresses were viewed as immoral to some as a woman's arms were exposed...

If a public sinner or one notoriously under censure, refuses to go to Confession beforehand or to be reconciled with the Church, the pastor shall not assist at his marriage, except for grave reasons, about which he shall, if possible, consult the Ordinary [i.e. the bishop of the diocese].

(Code of Canon Law [1917], Book III, Canon 1066)

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The priest who assists at the unworthy reception of the sacrament of marriage co-operates, although remotely, in the sacrilege thereby committed, and this is to be avoided except for proportionately grave causes. A sin is public de jure when it has been proved juridically, in court; de facto when it has been committed in public or has become known to a large number of people… As in those cases the guilt is public, the reparation ought to be also of a public character, before the pastor may, in the name of the Church, openly sanction by his presence the marriage of the party.

(Rev. H. A. Ayrinhac, Penal Legislation in the New Code of Canon Law [New York, NY: Benziger Brothers, 1920], n. 132; pp. 132-133.)

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DarrylS said:

This stuff does not happen "all the time" that is why it is so groundbreaking... good for Pope Francis to has done this quite different practice... marrying people "living in sin" is different, not sure if they are living in Venial or Mortal sin...

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What, exactly, do you mean by "this stuff," Darryls? Do you mean the fact that some of the couples were living together, the fact that one of them had a child or the fact that the pope performed a cememony in the Vatican for the first time in a long time?

As to the couples "living in sin," that's not for any one of us to judge. That's between the couple, their confessor and God. I am presuming, just like in all the marriages I know of in my own life when the couple was living together at the time of the marriage, the couple had to attend mandatory Marriage Classes and they had to adhere to a certain standard of conduct for a time before the wedding. Mainly that consisted of going to confession, confessing the premarital sex, being sorry for it and refraining from having sex again until after the marriage took place.

BTW the white dresses were viewed as immoral to some as a woman's arms were exposed...

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I fail to see how the color of a dress has anything to do with the absence or the presence of sleeves.

Mrs.PatsFanInVa said:

What, exactly, do you mean by "this stuff," Darryls? Do you mean the fact that some of the couples were living together, the fact that one of them had a child or the fact that the pope performed a cememony in the Vatican for the first time in a long time?

As to the couples "living in sin," that's not for any one of us to judge. That's between the couple, their confessor and God. I am presuming, just like in all the marriages I know of in my own life when the couple was living together at the time of the marriage, the couple had to attend mandatory Marriage Classes and they had to adhere to a certain standard of conduct for a time before the wedding. Mainly that consisted of going to confession, confessing the premarital sex, being sorry for it and refraining from having sex again until after the marriage took place.

I fail to see how the color of a dress has anything to do with the absence or the presence of sleeves.

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Apparently you do not understand the nuances of Catholic Church Doctrine and accompanying commentary, which is not necessarily mine but from some of the news accounts.. this is not about the rights of women, but the teachings of the church and how this is a groundbreaking event to have it done by a Pope inside of St. Peters.. A pope has never married a person living together prior to marriage, never mind a bunch of them...

"Living in sin" is a generic term used by all of my contemporaries growing up Catholic.. it is not a judgement, just how people living together without the sacrament of marriage were identified... something that was hammered into us from about the 4th grade until HS graduation.

The color of the dress was important, as if you engaged in premarital sex we were taught that you should not wear a white dress... not that anyone paid attention, but it was always an unwritten rule...

When you go to the Vatican there is a dress code and women are not allowed to wear tank tops... so my commentary has context, no need to defend what is said here as the intent is not to denigrate women, but to show that the church is changing and becoming accepting of this living situation...

Perhaps the next step is to welcome back divorced men and women, who are essentially excommunicated from the church because of their legal status...

DarrylS said:

When you go to the Vatican there is a dress code and women are not allowed to wear tank tops... so my commentary has context, no need to defend what is said here as the intent is not to denigrate women, but to show that the church is changing and becoming accepting of this living situation...

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Not just the Vatican. Pretty much all of the churches in Italy were like that: St. Mark's in Venice, St. Anthony's in Padua, St. Francis in Assisi, St. Paul "Outside the Walls" in Rome and St. Ignatius in Rome

Perhaps the next step is to welcome back divorced men and women, who are essentially excommunicated from the church because of their legal status...

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This.

DarrylS said:

This stuff does not happen "all the time" that is why it is so groundbreaking... good for Pope Francis to has done this quite different practice... marrying people "living in sin" is different, not sure if they are living in Venial or Mortal sin...

Popes rarely perform wedding ceremonies, the last times being in 1994 and 2000 by Pope John Paul II, so this action is a statement...

This has never been done before by a Pontiff.. that is the difference... it is very unusual, while it may not be a big deal to many, but to the inner sanctum of Catholicism it is earthshattering... BTW the white dresses were viewed as immoral to some as a woman's arms were exposed...

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You're quoting canon law from the early 20th century from a "traditionalist" website lol. The codes have changed just a little since then.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3Y.HTM


Again, just because you say the same thing over and over again doesn't make it right. It's still just as wrong.

"Living in Sin" is not an impediment to marrying. "White dresses" have nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. A bride can wear any color she wants during her wedding ceremony.

DarrylS said:

Apparently you do not understand the nuances of Catholic Church Doctrine and accompanying commentary, which is not necessarily mine but from some of the news accounts.. this is not about the rights of women, but the teachings of the church and how this is a groundbreaking event to have it done by a Pope inside of St. Peters.. A pope has never married a person living together prior to marriage, never mind a bunch of them...

"Living in sin" is a generic term used by all of my contemporaries growing up Catholic.. it is not a judgement, just how people living together without the sacrament of marriage were identified... something that was hammered into us from about the 4th grade until HS graduation.

The color of the dress was important, as if you engaged in premarital sex we were taught that you should not wear a white dress... not that anyone paid attention, but it was always an unwritten rule...

When you go to the Vatican there is a dress code and women are not allowed to wear tank tops... so my commentary has context, no need to defend what is said here as the intent is not to denigrate women, but to show that the church is changing and becoming accepting of this living situation...

Perhaps the next step is to welcome back divorced men and women, who are essentially excommunicated from the church because of their legal status...

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The very fact that you would suggest that there are "nuances" of Catholic doctrine show your absolute ignorance of Catholic doctrine. Mrs. PFV is way ahead of you in this regard.

The "color of the dress" has never been taught as Catholic doctrine and for you to even suggest that is both laughable and revealing. It's embarrassing actually.

Divorced Catholics are not "essentially excommunicated".


"2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177
If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.
2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179"


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm


The problem with divorced Catholics is when they enter into a sexual relationship or civil marriage. When they do that, they commit adultery.

This act by the Pope shows that the church is not "accepting" of people living together but rather that it is accepting of people getting married.