The "UnOfficial" Pats @ Vikings Post Game Thread

FourierSeries said:

BTW our D is 4th in yards allowed this season. Pass D rankings haven't been updated yet but I imagine we are top 3 or 4.

Click to expand...

The D will rank even higher after the oakland game.

Mack Herron said:

Actually, they got plenty of snaps...88 for LaFell Dobson and Amendola with 1 reception.

Click to expand...

*ROFLMAO* Mack - Your supposition is wrong. You cannot take the total snaps that each one took, add them together and say "Look, they got 88 snaps". 88 snaps is more snaps than the team took the entire game. There were only 22 passing plays. Period. So, immediately, you have to acknowledge that Dobson and Lafell spent quite a bit of time on the field for RUNNING plays. Nothing you said contradicts my claims that the Patriots ran very few multi-WR sets and that they were primarily in 2WR/2RB or 2WR/2TE sets. In fact, Mike Reiss (whom you copied and didn't attribute) has since put up the offensive groupings. 22 of the 67 plays (INCLUDING penalties) were 3 WR sets. In fact, the Pats didn't put more than 3 WR on the field the entire game. There were 14 plays where the Patriots had 0 or 1 WR on the field.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...4768205/patriots-groupings-going-heavy-in-win

2 WR/2 TE/1 RB – 26 of 67
3 WR/1 TE/1 RB – 21 of 67
1 WR/2 TE/1 FB/1 RB – 12 of 67
2 WR/1 TE/1 FB/1 RB – 5 of 67
3 TE/1 FB/1 RB – 2 of 67
3 WR/1 FB/1 RB – 1 of 67

Click to expand...

I am confident (though i don't have the numbers in front of me) that the Patriots ran the ball on 5-7 of those 3 WR sets.

BTW, Since you missed it, someone else in the thread pointed out that Amendola spent most of his snaps blocking on running plays. Kind of hard to catch a pass when they aren't throwing the ball.

DaBruinz said:

*ROFLMAO* Mack - Your supposition is wrong. You cannot take the total snaps that each one took, add them together and say "Look, they got 88 snaps". 88 snaps is more snaps than the team took the entire game. There were only 22 passing plays. Period. So, immediately, you have to acknowledge that Dobson and Lafell spent quite a bit of time on the field for RUNNING plays. Nothing you said contradicts my claims that the Patriots ran very few multi-WR sets and that they were primarily in 2WR/2RB or 2WR/2TE sets. In fact, Mike Reiss (whom you copied and didn't attribute) has since put up the offensive groupings. 22 of the 67 plays (INCLUDING penalties) were 3 WR sets. In fact, the Pats didn't put more than 3 WR on the field the entire game. There were 14 plays where the Patriots had 0 or 1 WR on the field.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...4768205/patriots-groupings-going-heavy-in-win



I am confident (though i don't have the numbers in front of me) that the Patriots ran the ball on 5-7 of those 3 WR sets.

BTW, Since you missed it, someone else in the thread pointed out that Amendola spent most of his snaps blocking on running plays. Kind of hard to catch a pass when they aren't throwing the ball.

Click to expand...

Of course there are running plays. Edelman was on the field for those too. The question is whether you believe we are getting good production from LaFell, Amendaola and Dobson. I thin it is fair to question this. You evidently do not.

It was better than good to see a conservative game plan during a blowout win. Three TDs - one passing, one rushing, one on special teams. 37 rushing plays to 22 passing plays. Won the time of possession, and shut out the Vikings from their TD in the first quarter on.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400554235

It was exactly what so many of us had hoped to see - a game won by the defense that didn't require Brady to put the team on his back and will them to a victory. The Vikings were toothless without Adrian Peterson.

Third down conversions was the biggest issue in the box score - just 5 of 14. If the offense can clean that up and get to 60%, this team will be fine. Gronkowski getting crisper on his routes alone can fix that.

The decision to punt on 4th and 1 in the 2nd quarter rather than have Brady sneak it was questioned at the time, but I was fine with it. What's the point of having Brady take a hit in a game like that up 17-7 and the defense playing well?

With the Raiders at home next up, the Patriots have another opponent that the defense should be able to handle. Nothing wrong with letting the defensive side of the ball carry the load. It's been a long time since the Patriots were seen as a team that would be tough to gain yardage against.

It's too bad the defense didn't play like that in the 2nd half against Miami.

Mack Herron said:

Of course there are running plays. Edelman was on the field for those too. The question is whether you believe we are getting good production from LaFell, Amendaola and Dobson. I thin it is fair to question this. You evidently do not.

Click to expand...

There are two times "production" matters. Fantasy Football and Contract negotiations. This is a TEAM sport and the goal is to WIN. I look at the fact that the Pats ran just 22 passing plays and note that there are only so many places the ball can go. I look at the fact that the Pats ran only 22 Multi-WR sets and see that none of those sets had more than 3 WR so I have to take into consideration those facts before judging the players. If not, then there is no way I can come to a fair and unbiased conclusion about their contribution to the win. For instance, Lafell and Amendola both were on the field on running plays and they blocked well. Neither one took a holding penalty on a run play. And, as far as I know, their man was never the one making the tackle on the RB. So that tells me they did well.

Would I have liked there to be more production from the passing game? Sure. Brady does as well. They barely missed on several plays. You know what I didn't see? Any obvious drops by Amendola or Lafell.

That is how I measure their contribution. It's not just about receiving stats..

DaBruinz said:

There are two times "production" matters. Fantasy Football and Contract negotiations. This is a TEAM sport and the goal is to WIN. I look at the fact that the Pats ran just 22 passing plays and note that there are only so many places the ball can go. I look at the fact that the Pats ran only 22 Multi-WR sets and see that none of those sets had more than 3 WR so I have to take into consideration those facts before judging the players. If not, then there is no way I can come to a fair and unbiased conclusion about their contribution to the win. For instance, Lafell and Amendola both were on the field on running plays and they blocked well. Neither one took a holding penalty on a run play. And, as far as I know, their man was never the one making the tackle on the RB. So that tells me they did well.

Would I have liked there to be more production from the passing game? Sure. Brady does as well. They barely missed on several plays. You know what I didn't see? Any obvious drops by Amendola or Lafell.

That is how I measure their contribution. It's not just about receiving stats..

Click to expand...

I am not saying they are not productive. I am saying that our passing game is heavily weighted towards Edelman (57% of WR reeceptions) and theother WRs have not contributed well to the passing game. Dobson and LaFell have more penalties than receptions. LaFell was targeted 6 times last game with no catchces. He had zero targets yesterday, while Amendola had, what, 1? We don't know how often Brady might have thrown to them if they were open. It is possible LaFell and Amendola will each have a bunch next week, but the early returns are disappointing.

To pile on, my thoughts:

- Aside from the first drive, great effort by our defense
- From what I saw, they were more aggressive and played "downhill" instead of reacting to what the offense did
- Chandler dominated early on. The Vikings constantly had either two guys on him or had a back chip later in the second half of the game.
- Mayo and Hightower played great IMO.
- So did our entire DBs

- Offense was a mixed bag
- Ridley showed some burst when the OL blocked. Even when they didn't block, he still managed to squirm 3 yards when he shouldn't have.
- I'm surprised Thomkins didn't play. I understand they wanted Dobson to play, but he's more of a threat in our passing game compared to LaFell. I'm sure Thomkins can contribute on ST in the same capacity LaFell is if that is the reason why LaFell is playing over Thomkins
- Brady is still focusing on Gronk too much when he is on the field. I understand Gronk is a great weapon when he is completely healthy, but you can tell he doesn't have the same explosiveness at the moment. Their timing is definitely off.
- I saw Amendola open more than a few times when he went out on a route. Brady just doesn't look his way.
- Edelman was our best player on O.
- I am sure Brady and our offense will get it going as the season goes on. It's great to have a D that can carry the team for the time being.
- Ghost might be the best kicker in the league, at least top 3.

If Kyle Rudolph could catch the ball, this would have been a more challenging game.

The Patriots are definitely still struggling to defend the TE's and RB's in the passing game. Deonte Skinner had a tough first series, and then didn't see a lot of time. The Pats defense doesn't seem to match the safety on the TE a lot.

At least early in training camp, James Anderson seemed to perform better in that role than Skinner, Fleming, White, Davis, Beauharnais, etc.

There still seems to be a try-out environment around the fourth LB and second safety, as the Patriots have rotated LB's on the roster and safeties in the game. That probably means that no single player is getting full practice reps in those roles. Hopefully this is solidified soon.

Overall the team played well yesterday, but should there be any concern that they only scored 6 points in the second half? I know they were sitting on a big lead, so their offesnive play calls were more conservative.

Urgent said:

If Kyle Rudolph could catch the ball, this would have been a more challenging game.

Click to expand...

Caught it fine on that 1st drive and then the Pats made him a non factor the rest of the game.

5 for 53

2 for 26 on that first drive
2 for 19 on the first drive of the 4th quarter with the score 30-7.

A question about the blocked field goal.

Chandler Jones himself apart, I noticed that the Pats had a high number of "front line" players on the field for that play -- including Arrington, Chung, Ninkovich, Siliga and Wilfork. Is that normal for field goals or was that a play on which the Pats went "all in"? (Wonderful play, by the way -- would love to see him do it against the Broncos.)

condon84 said:

- Ghost might be the best kicker in the league, at least top 3.

Click to expand...

He was the best kicker last year so it appears he is picking up where he left off.

ausbacker said:

To be honest, I would have preferred that Bill and Tommy Kelly could have worked something out as he would have been a perfect 34 DE to compliment the DL rotation. Such is life.

Click to expand...

Kelly would either be playing in place of Wilfork, Silgia, Easley, Chris Jones, or sitting on the bench.
We will not be playing 3 300lb DL regularly. Yesterday we did it for about 4-5 snaps.
Jones is a 34 DE when the right defensive side is weak, and a 34 OLB when the right defensive side is strong. That is our scheme.

hwc said:

Cam Newton didn't seem to have any trouble getting the ball to Brandon LaFell. It takes two to tango and I think the QB has to shoulder some responsibility for the Pats' inconsistency in the passing game. If the passing game only succeeds with absolute perfection on every route, then maybe it's time to rethink the approach to the passing game.

Click to expand...

The time to rethink the passing game is when the superstar quarterback around whom it is based retires. Until then, receivers need to get with the program, if they want to succeed here. Brady definitely needs to be more trusting of players not named Gronk or Edelman and look to them, but that's a different issue and one on which Brady himself has called himself out.

Mack Herron said:

Actually, they got plenty of snaps...88 for LaFell Dobson and Amendola with 1 reception.

Click to expand...

Almost every snap LaFell was on the field was a running play. That's why he was active.

Mike the Brit said:

A question about the blocked field goal.

Chandler Jones himself apart, I noticed that the Pats had a high number of "front line" players on the field for that play -- including Arrington, Chung, Ninkovich, Siliga and Wilfork. Is that normal for field goals or was that a play on which the Pats went "all in"? (Wonderful play, by the way -- would love to see him do it against the Broncos.)

Click to expand...

Pretty normal. FWIW, the Vikings had Matt Kalil (#4 overall pick and starting LT) on the field for that play. People don't get hurt blocking on FGs nearly as often as we think they do. The only reason we are paranoid about it is because of Gronk's freak accident.

rochrist said:

Almost every snap LaFell was on the field was a running play. That's why he was active.

Click to expand...

Catching the ball is part of a WR job. He was 0 for 6 targets last week, no targets this week. The passing game to WRs has been weighted heavily towards Edelman. Brady and others have acknowledged that the more they spread it out, the harder they will be to defend. Otherwise defenses only have to take Edelman out and the passing game is no longer a threat. I'm sure they want to get the ball to Amendola, LaFell, Dobson et al. and hopefully they will.

Mack Herron said:

Catching the ball is part of a WR job. He was 0 for 6 targets last week, no targets this week. The passing game to WRs has been weighted heavily towards Edelman. Brady and others have acknowledged that the more they spread it out, the harder they will be to defend. Otherwise defenses only have to take Edelman out and the passing game is no longer a threat. I'm sure they want to get the ball to Amendola, LaFell, Dobson et al. and hopefully they will.

Click to expand...

How is he supposed to catch the ball when the plays he is in for he only has to block?? Tell me Mack

Archeryaddict12 said:

How is he supposed to catch the ball when the plays he is in for he only has to block?? Tell me Mack

Click to expand...

As I mentioned, he has been in for passing plays. Please provide the exact stats if you have them. 2 games and 0 catches. It's early. You can point to a small sample size. I am not singling him out. I was just pointing out what many (including Brady) have commented on--the passing game has been heavily weighted to Edelman.

AndyJohnson said:

Kelly would either be playing in place of Wilfork, Silgia, Easley, Chris Jones, or sitting on the bench.
We will not be playing 3 300lb DL regularly. Yesterday we did it for about 4-5 snaps.
Jones is a 34 DE when the right defensive side is weak, and a 34 OLB when the right defensive side is strong. That is our scheme.

Click to expand...

And you were really wrong about the pass rush being horrible if they ran a 3-4.