Amendola

Deus Irae said:

It's a legit topic after yesterday (same with Wright, Gronk, Dobson, Lafell). I'm willing to bet that some person(s) I have on ignore is/are taking it way too far, though.

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Don't get me wrong, there are interesting angles on this topic to be discussed. For example, a breakdown on whether the issue is Amendola not getting open or Brady not looking Amendola's way would be interesting and informative. Debating for the umpteenth time whether or not Amendola is a good player or not, on the other hand...

This thread probably ran its course...

JackBauer said:

Don't get me wrong, there are interesting angles on this topic to be discussed. For example, a breakdown on whether the issue is Amendola not getting open or Brady not looking Amendola's way would be interesting and informative. Debating for the umpteenth time whether or not Amendola is a good player or not, on the other hand...

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What is senseless is debating those questions without a modicum of fact. You can't break that down without knowing the play call and progressions, so it would be the typical patsfans.com charade of people pretending what they can't analyze says what they want it to.

Has their ever been a hall of fame QB who has had to play with worse weapons than Brady?

Pessimistic Pete said:

Pretty easy

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So, understanding that he was signed to a fairly decent deal where you don't get into the black again for the first 2 years, what you propose they do then?

Please...tell us. Better yet, send a letter to Belichick. They aren't going to get anything on the trade market, are they?

He already only saw a total of 19 snaps yesterday. What else do you want?

Pessimistic Pete said:

Yeah, I'm sure another team would just LOVE to take on his contract.

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Again...so what do you propose they do, then?

Brady6 said:

It is not about proving a point, and it is not about me being told I was right, or posters admitting they were wrong. It is about you doing in this post the exact thing that you and others said you would not do this season if Amendola underperformed, and that is excuses his performance or try to justify his performance. Then you go as far as to say Amendola made big plays as if to imply if not for some third party factor things would have been different, that is just untrue, last week LaFell knocked the DB out cold, and this week Dobson did just about the same. The plays were illegal and the only reason that Amendola was able to get open and make them, and I think the severity of the interference would have been called last season as well at least the LaFell play.


I did not open this thread, I expected Amendola to do little this season and was very vocal about it, I would not even be talking about Amendola except for the fact that I take issue with posters doing the same thing they did in reaction to Amendola last season again this season especially after most stated they would not.

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The New England Patriots have played in 2 games so far, either of which focused on any WR outside of Gronkowski or Edelman.

I would assume that they are just getting started.

On top of that--haven't I already told you that you seem to be correct (after the first 2 weeks) already? What else do you want from me?

supafly said:

The New England Patriots have played in 2 games so far, either of which focused on any WR outside of Gronkowski or Edelman.

I would assume that they are just getting started.

On top of that--haven't I already told you that you seem to be correct (after the first 2 weeks) already? What else do you want from me?

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I do not want anything from you; I am talking in broad terms. I am not trying to give you a hard time Sup, I think very highly of you, I just think that a number of posters have taken this Tebow fan Esq. approach to Amendola where even when negative discussion is merited they take issue with it. The fact of the matter is that the minute Julian Edelman passed Amendola on the depth chart Amendola failed to achieve what he was tasked to do when he was signed. In addition, this season the way he has looked on the field, his movements, they all discredit the assertion that the groin was influencing his play in the second half of last season, because he looks the same. It just seems that posters used excuses last season and now they are trying to do it again this year, not to drill it home but even in this post instead of just saying Amendola has not produced you first softened it by highlighting the focus on just Gronkowski and Edelman. Which overlooks that even with the limited opportunity of 6 targets this season Amendola has just 3 catches for a mere 16 yards, that shows nothing to indicate he deserves more opportunity.

NG Pats Fan said:

Has their ever been a hall of fame QB who has had to play with worse weapons than Brady?

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Outside of Aikman, Bradshaw, Griese, and Fouts who are only in the HOF because of their weapons, and Montana and Young who got to play with the best football player who ever lived, Brady's supporting cast is pretty much on par with the other QBs in the HOF right now.

Better than Marino's and Moon's, certainly, and probably better than Elway's. Compared to the guys who will be there soon, Manning certainly has had an insanely good supporting cast his whole career, and Warner always did as well, but Favre didn't. I don't think Brady's supporting cast has been any worse than Brees' at any point, either.

Pre-2007 you'd have a point, but since then he's thrown to the second best WR to ever live, a borderline HOF, and arguably the most talented tight end to ever step on a field.

AndyJohnson said:

You are joking right?
How would anyone know that without knowing which plays are called?

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Do you know what estimate means? I was asking for a rough idea in your opinion, not an exact number.

Ivan said:

Agree completely. I hate the threads where someone with an agenda posts the same things over x1,000 ad nauseoum and refuses to shut up about it no matter many times they are asked to. Fortunately this isn't one of those kind if threads.

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Ivan you are the poster that you are referring to. You come into every one of these threads and lurk making these types of posts repeatedly so stop being such a hypocrite, at least my posts are about football and not just emotional nonsense.

Amendola is not as bad as most people are claiming, nor is he going to be as good as advertised.

It's quite simple really: Amendola has been relegated to Julian Edelman's role in the offense from 2009-12. It's the Slot Receiver B position, where you have the second undersized receiver lineup on the outside as a hybrid inside-outside threat. This person's role is to do absolutely nothing other than require a defender to stand there. Edelman mastered it until he accidentally moved and stepped on the murderer's foot in 2012. After that, he never ran a route again.

Edelman played that same position while Welker was here. I think we can see now that it wasn't so much Edelman's ineptness as Welker's adeptness that caused Edelman to be uninvolved in the offense. Welker was featured as the slot receiver, and the plays were designed with him as the playmaker.

If Edelman got injured tomorrow, Amendola would become the primary slot receiver; he would not be as good as Edleman but would be adequate.

Amendola's biggest obstacle since he arrived has been the surprising emergence of Julian Edelman. Edelman is playing the position as well as Welker did in his prime, maybe better when you consider there isn't much going on to give him space.

primetime said:

Outside of Aikman, Bradshaw, Griese, and Fouts who are only in the HOF because of their weapons, and Montana and Young who got to play with the best football player who ever lived, Brady's supporting cast is pretty much on par with the other QBs in the HOF right now.

Better than Marino's and Moon's, certainly, and probably better than Elway's. Compared to the guys who will be there soon, Manning certainly has had an insanely good supporting cast his whole career, and Warner always did as well, but Favre didn't. I don't think Brady's supporting cast has been any worse than Brees' at any point, either.

Pre-2007 you'd have a point, but since then he's thrown to the second best WR to ever live, a borderline HOF, and arguably the most talented tight end to ever step on a field.

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Im talking about right now. Has their ever been a hall of fame QB that's had a worse cast of Wrs than Brady does in 2014?

primetime said:

Outside of Aikman, Bradshaw, Griese, and Fouts who are only in the HOF because of their weapons, and Montana and Young who got to play with the best football player who ever lived, Brady's supporting cast is pretty much on par with the other QBs in the HOF right now.

Better than Marino's and Moon's, certainly, and probably better than Elway's. Compared to the guys who will be there soon, Manning certainly has had an insanely good supporting cast his whole career, and Warner always did as well, but Favre didn't. I don't think Brady's supporting cast has been any worse than Brees' at any point, either.

Pre-2007 you'd have a point, but since then he's thrown to the second best WR to ever live, a borderline HOF, and arguably the most talented tight end to ever step on a field.

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lol... you can't be serious.

You failed to mention that Randy Moss played with Brady for 16 healthy games in 2007, 16 unhealthy games in 2009, and 2 games in 2010.

"The most talented tight end ever to step on a field"- I love Gronk, he is awesome, but A) he can't stay healthy, and B) as a pure pass catcher, and therefore as someone who would make the passing game look better, there are about six tight ends in football right now who can do that. Gronk is awesome primarily because of his blocking and pass catching skills combo. Any way you look at it, I would hardly say that having Gronk from 2011-present, with all of the injuries, would fill in for all of the deficiencies on offense.

Brees has always had a much better offense than Brady. The Saints have a bunch of B+ caliber players at every skill position and a great offensive line. Brees has 2-3 outside guys each year that are highly capable of big plays.

"Insanely good" is an understatement for Manning. He has never even had a season where he has less than TWO pro-bowl caliber outside receivers. In Indy, it was Harrison and Wayne, two Hall of Fame caliber players. In Denver, it's D. Thomas and Decker/Sanders, and you can sprinkle in a whole bunch of other weapons like Stokley, Clark, Faulk, Garcon, J. Thomas, Welker, etc. etc. I have no idea how Manning is known as "the whole team" when GMs do everything in their power to give him more weapons than a US Nuclear Stockpile. Outside receivers stretch the field and he can do whatever he wants underneath. Brady has had exactly one outside receiver for two years who was even a major threat.

Better than Marino's cast? I guess you have not heard of the Marx brothers.

Brady6 said:

I am not trying to give you a hard time Sup, I think very highly of you, I just think that a number of posters have taken this Tebow fan Esq. approach to Amendola where even when negative discussion is merited they take issue with it.

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Okay, fair enough. I think highly of you as a poster as well. If anyone would ask for my opinion, I'd say that this one issue of beating a dead horse is the only reason why anyone would think otherwise.

While we have a bit of a difference of opinion in some of the finer nuances, there are definitely things that we agree on in terms of Amendola lacking production. I just don't see what can be realistically done aside from waiting until the season's over, and making the best of the things he does do well.

I don't think that ANY of our receiving options have started to get going yet, outside of Julian Edelman. I also think that some are being a bit harsh on Belichick considering the lack of options at the time. One can argue that his biggest "screwup" of the situation was not giving in to Welker, but I don't really blame him for going after what was widely believed as the next best option at the time.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Amendola is not as bad as most people are claiming, nor is he going to be as good as advertised.

It's quite simple really: Amendola has been relegated to Julian Edelman's role in the offense from 2009-12. It's the Slot Receiver B position, where you have the second undersized receiver lineup on the outside as a hybrid inside-outside threat. This person's role is to do absolutely nothing other than require a defender to stand there. Edelman mastered it until he accidentally moved and stepped on the murderer's foot in 2012. After that, he never ran a route again.

Edelman played that same position while Welker was here. I think we can see now that it wasn't so much Edelman's ineptness as Welker's adeptness that caused Edelman to be uninvolved in the offense. Welker was featured as the slot receiver, and the plays were designed with him as the playmaker.

If Edelman got injured tomorrow, Amendola would become the primary slot receiver; he would not be as good as Edleman but would be adequate.

Amendola's biggest obstacle since he arrived has been the surprising emergence of Julian Edelman. Edelman is playing the position as well as Welker did in his prime, maybe better when you consider there isn't much going on to give him space.

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Lots of fair points. Nice post.

patsfan-1982 said:

I don't see why anyone would blame him for Tebow he took over a 1-4 team and won a wild card game for them, that also made Elway see that they can win with that young team and the owner gave him full power and he got them in the SB two years later and they are still one of the top 4 or 5 team in the NFL and IMO Tebow was a part of that turn around in Denver

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I agree, truer words have never be spoken. Tim Tebow's haters will not give him credit for his strengths/success, but they will give him all the credit for his flaws/failures as a football player. Amendola and Tebow have been unfairly targeted by some on this board with hate and vitriol. Nevertheless, haters are gonna hate.

Christiancat said:

I agree, truer words have never be spoken. Tim Tebow's haters will not give him credit for his strengths/success, but they will give him all the credit for his flaws/failures as a football player. Amendola and Tebow have been unfairly targeted by some on this board with hate and vitriol. Nevertheless, haters are gonna hate.

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I think it less about people hating Tebow or in this case Amendola and more about them hating the irrational outlook their fans have and the lack accountability for the the performance. It is always someone else or some other factor the emphasis for their failure never falls on them.

My dislike for Amendola is simple I do not like the fact he makes more than Edelman and the rest or the WR because he does not deserve to and only does because of circumstances that left the Patriots in a vulnerable situation. I do not like seeing anyone get something they have not earned.

AndyJohnson said:

What is senseless is debating those questions without a modicum of fact. You can't break that down without knowing the play call and progressions, so it would be the typical patsfans.com charade of people pretending what they can't analyze says what they want it to.

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Agreed.

Aside from Edelman - who has capably filled the previous Welker/go to guy role (though Edelman actually has a broader skill set than Welker) the ball has been spread quite a bit in two games, though one needs to factor in that the Vikings game saw limited offense and a pretty prolific defense

What we do know is that Belichick/McDaniels are fond of situational football gameplanning/play calling

There are games where some players get tons of looks and passes - other games where the defensive gameplan suggests that the Pats would do well to look elsewhere for that game (especially if opposing DCs are trying to take away typical top passing options from last year which could include Amendola)

Of course we're not privvy to any of that - maybe Brady doesn't have confidence in him, maybe he does and he's looking for the open man or trying to set up Ds to begin to leave Amendola free... who knows - we sure don't.

primetime said:

Outside of Aikman, Bradshaw, Griese, and Fouts who are only in the HOF because of their weapons, and Montana and Young who got to play with the best football player who ever lived, Brady's supporting cast is pretty much on par with the other QBs in the HOF right now.

Better than Marino's and Moon's, certainly, and probably better than Elway's. Compared to the guys who will be there soon, Manning certainly has had an insanely good supporting cast his whole career, and Warner always did as well, but Favre didn't. I don't think Brady's supporting cast has been any worse than Brees' at any point, either.

Pre-2007 you'd have a point, but since then he's thrown to the second best WR to ever live, a borderline HOF, and arguably the most talented tight end to ever step on a field.

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Elway had to make do with an UDFA.