Vikings RB Adrian Peterson indicted for child abuse; deactivated for Pats game at Minnesota

Joker said:

Different cultures have different paradigms...

India had over 8,200 dowry-related deaths in 2012, crime records show

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/02/world/asia/indian-burned-alive-dowry/

I witnessed this practice when I traveled to India in the mid 70's.Not saw it on TV, actually saw it happen from 30 or 40 yards away in a crowded square in Calcutta. I puked for a long time and then packed my bags, left my host and his family and jetted off to Thailand...where a whole new can of worms opened up on the streets of Bangkok.

In our country we have different religious paradigms by REGION. What I find sickening and revolting as a New Englander is considered righteous and just in the midwest...and both regions find Waren Jeffs and HIS following equally reprehensible. Take care of you and yours and attempt to understand the lives of others is the best anyone can really do. People want an answer. There is no single answer. That is why we have laws so that we are all judged under the law. Let the law take its course, IMO.

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Let the law take its course......hey what a concept. Do you mean that Peterson is to be looked at as if he did nothing until there is a trial? Hey, didn't someone once write something about that before? It's starting to come back to me....something about innocent until.....what? Innocent until you are skewered by the media, and the Internet forums? No, that's not it...oh, well, give me a minute while I google it and I'll report back.

I saw the photos on this thread. I read the texts Peterson sent. As to the ultimate issue of Peterson' s innocence or guilt, right now, you can claim they are "facts" but actually they are hearsay. And, by the time anything gets to this forum it is quadruple hearsay, if not more. There is a reason hearsay, with some exceptions, is excluded from trials. Maybe the photos, texts, etc are all true. Maybe some are and some are not.
I have read virtually all of this thread. And all I can do is (a) hope the child is okay and (b) thank God I live in a country governed by the Constitution and the rule of law.
Joker is right. Let the law run it's course.

Hi Kontra.....

I had posted my reply but the formatting was screwed up so I deleted it and re-posted it....which is why your reply appears before my post.

You are quick. You don't happen to weigh 290 and play D-line, do you....

Seacoast Fan said:

Let the law take its course......hey what a concept. Do you mean that Peterson is to be looked at as if he did nothing until there is a trial? Hey, didn't someone once write something about that before? It's starting to come back to me....something about innocent until.....what? Innocent until you are skewered by the media, and the Internet forums? No, that's not it...oh, well, give me a minute while I google it and I'll report back.

I saw the photos on this thread. I read the texts Peterson sent. As to the ultimate issue of Peterson' s innocence or guilt, right now, you can claim they are "facts" but actually they are hearsay. And, by the time anything gets to this forum it is quadruple hearsay, if not more. There is a reason hearsay, with some exceptions, is excluded from trials. Maybe the photos, texts, etc are all true. Maybe some are and some are not.
I have read virtually all of this thread. And all I can do is (a) hope the child is okay and (b) thank God I live in a country governed by the Constitution and the rule of law.
Joker is right. Let the law run it's course.

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Im not sure that the law in Texas is in anyway influenced, impeded or expedited by what is discussed on Patsfans.com... or anywhere else outside of Texas.

Seacoast Fan said:

Hi Kontra.....

I had posted my reply but the formatting was screwed up so I deleted it and re-posted it....which is why your reply appears before my post.

You are quick. You don't happen to weigh 290 and play D-line, do you....

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215, but I played DL in high school.

Danger Zone said:

Im not sure that the law in Texas is in anyway influenced, impeded or expedited by what is discussed on Patsfans.com... or anywhere else outside of Texas.

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And you would almost certainly be right but that is not the point. I am not talking about what influences TX law. I am talking about the presumption of innocence an individual has in our society and how that presumption is totally ignored in high profile cases (and sometimes, low profile cases.)
If you think an individual's presumption of innocence is not affected by media and the internet ...well...all I can say is, you and I have a big disagreement.
Hopefully you will never be indicted on a high profile case. You would see what I mean in a heartbeat.

KontradictioN said:

215, but I played DL in high school.

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To paraphrase The Graduate......I've got one word for you, son:
Steroids.

Seacoast Fan said:

To paraphrase The Graduate......I've got one word for you, son:
Steroids.

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My girlfriend likes my chest the way it is. I don't feel like developing a cro magnon skull and ***** tits.

KontradictioN said:

@Seacoast Fan, naturally you want to let due process and the proceedings run their course. But you can still look at those pictures and begin to form an opinion while, at the same time, knowing there's always a chance those pictures may no be legitimate or tell the whole story.

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Of course people are going to form private opinions...no way to stop that. The problem is when a large segment of society, and that includes a gazillion media outlets , all vying for viewers, attention and clicks, look at an indictment, look at the "facts" and start shouting GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY, and editorializing about the form of punishment ....in those circumstances the presumption of innocence becomes an illusion and the right to a fair trial is very difficult to administer.

So we get to pick and choose which cases are ok for a prosecutor to 'indictment shop"? If the prosecutor struck out a 2nd time, would a 3rd shot be ok? 4th? What Peterson, you, me, we all get to spend a year, 5 years, 10 years wondering that after 20 attempts some prosecutor is finally going to persuade a secret Grand Jury that we committed some crime?

If the prosecutor couldn't get an indictment the first time, then he failed to present any evidence, as we know Grand Jurys are rubber stamps for District Attorneys.

What does this say? An overzealous publicity hungry DA swung too early and missed? If he f**Ked up then that is on him.

The court of public opinion will punish Peterson much more than whatever sentence he gets in Texas, so he is not getting off.

I say if you cannot get an indictment in the kangeroo court that is a secret Grand Jury the first time then the DA should be sh*t out of luck.

The bigger picture is the 99% of cases go to Grand Juries when the secret Grand Jury system was set up to protect judges who were in physical danger from indicting mobsters in open Show Cause hearings.

This Peterson case was a case where a Show Cause hearing was completley warranted. Do you think some Texas judge was in imminent danger of assassination by Adrian if he indicted him?

In a Show Cause, the Judge and the Public could have seen the evidence presented as evidence, not internet bits and pieces, leaked by one side or the other for their benefit.

I think what I saw elsewhere is probably what happened...

The prosecutor did an intentionally half-a**ed effort the first time around because Peterson is rich, a football player, has connections, etc.

And then as outrage began to grow about the Ray Rice wristslap (even before the video came out), the prosecutor figured "oh cr*p -- if those pictures ever get out or people find out more details I and my re-election chances could be in trouble" and so decided to convene a second grand jury and give it an honest effort this time around.

Joker said:

The NFL has a really tough decision to make here. I wouldn't want that responsibility.It's a felony, Peterson has no previous record...Solomon needs to be resurrected to hear this one iMO.

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You'll do what you always do: No matter what decision the league hands down, and when they hand it down, you'll criticize the commissioner as a continuation of your obsessive, ridiculous crusade.

rlcarr said:

I think what I saw elsewhere is probably what happened...

The prosecutor did an intentionally half-a**ed effort the first time around because Peterson is rich, a football player, has connections, etc.

And then as outrage began to grow about the Ray Rice wristslap (even before the video came out), the prosecutor figured "oh cr*p -- if those pictures ever get out or people find out more details I and my re-election chances could be in trouble" and so decided to convene a second grand jury and give it an honest effort this time around.

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I think that is exactly what happened.

SB39 said:

You'll do what you always do: No matter what decision the league hands down, and when they hand it down, you'll criticize the commissioner as a continuation of your obsessive, ridiculous crusade.

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Somehow you quoted someone else's post but it was attributed to me....
I didn't say that. But no biggie.
Full disclosure, though, I think Goodell sucks. But my only ridiculous obsession is with internet porn.

The problem with trying to achieve "justice" is that, in theory, it should be identical for everyone, regardless of circumstances.

Of course:

Anatole France said:

La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain.

The majestic equality of the law, which forbids both the rich and the poor from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets, and stealing bread.

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In both this case and the Rice case, the pendulum of justice swung too far in one direction (leniency) and now looks to be swinging too far in the other direction (vengeance).

Seacoast Fan said:

Somehow you quoted someone else's post but it was attributed to me....
I didn't say that. But no biggie.
Full disclosure, though, I think Goodell sucks. But my only ridiculous obsession is with internet porn.

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Fixed - my apologies.

I agree with those saying the NFL has a tough row to hoe. Unless it comes out that these photos are somehow inaccurate (which doesn't seem terribly likely), the evidence is pretty damning. Since all we have now is an indictment, it could easily take a year (if not longer) until the legal system runs its course.

PATS16N0 said:

So..... what? Every parent that smacks their kid or hits them with something should be locked up and their kids taken away? Where do you intend to house all of these hundreds of millions of children?

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Cool, logistics dictate when we should worry about morals.

This is 100x worse than the Rice incident. A grown women can walk away, call a cab, call the cops...ie-escape from the situation. A 4 year old is defenseless. My patience has been tried by my now almost 8 year old. Never would I resort to those tactics. Those scars on his body will heal eventually. The scars on his mind will not.

That left cross by Ray was disturbing and disgusting. This is a whole new level. Bruschi said he would have trouble accepting Rice in his locker room after seeing the video. If Peterson stepped foot on the facility and was a co-worker of mine I would greet him with swings. You're no longer an acceptable member of the human race.

Abusing a defenseless child is the ultimate taboo. You're dead to me Adrian Peterson. Go kill yourself.

SB39 said:

You'll do what you always do: No matter what decision the league hands down, and when they hand it down, you'll criticize the commissioner as a continuation of your obsessive, ridiculous crusade.

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and it will drive you into a fury, probably eliciting more of your patented brand of narcissistic buffoonery, lest we forget your penchant for bragging about your unit size,your stellar history of only taking punches from your ex-girlfriends (which I agree fully with them BTW) and YOUR obsessive, ridiculous crusade to defend this commissioner against any and all criticisms. As I stated before,you are a scientific oddity, a human colon remora. When Goodell finally leaves this mortal coil, they'll do an autopsy and separate your lips from his colon wall. Then you will be FAMOUS....maybe even get more girlfriends to punch you out while waving your big unit around. Freak.

Joker said:

Different cultures have different paradigms...

India had over 8,200 dowry-related deaths in 2012, crime records show

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/02/world/asia/indian-burned-alive-dowry/

I witnessed this practice when I traveled to India in the mid 70's.Not saw it on TV, actually saw it happen from 30 or 40 yards away in a crowded square in Calcutta. I puked for a long time and then packed my bags, left my host and his family and jetted off to Thailand...where a whole new can of worms opened up on the streets of Bangkok.

In our country we have different religious paradigms by REGION. What I find sickening and revolting as a New Englander is considered righteous and just in the midwest...and both regions find Waren Jeffs and HIS following equally reprehensible. Take care of you and yours and attempt to understand the lives of others is the best anyone can really do. People want an answer. There is no single answer. That is why we have laws so that we are all judged under the law. Let the law take its course, IMO.

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Well said. Different cultures do have different paradigms. That absolutely does not condone unacceptable behavior, but it helps to understand why certain groups think that certain types of unacceptable behavior is "ok". The fact that the father of Syria's Bashar al-Assad also performed mass murder helps to explain why Assad thinks that type of barbaric behavior is "ok", but of course that doesn't condone him being a mass murderer.

One would hope that through a combination of media coverage (this is why a free press is so important), the resultant public revulsion, and enforcement of laws, that unacceptable behaviors, even if rooted in culture paradigms, will decrease. I would guess that after public coverage and public revulsion of the Michael Vick case (as well as his prison time) fewer people consider dog fighting as "ok" behavior.

When my Dad was a boy in the 1920's, cutting a switch and whipping a kid for discipline was fairly common and considered OK by many, although that would not be acceptable now to all but a few. When I was a boy in the early 60's, spanking a kid with a paddle or board was pretty common behavior (even in the schools), although that wouldn't be acceptable to most now.

So, there are probably still some people around who think that cutting a switch to discipline a kid is "ok". If the pictures are true, clearly Adrian Peterson went way over any line and committed a crime and should be punished by the law. We can only hope that public coverage and public revulsion will convince fewer people that type of behavior is "ok".

BradyFTW! said:

Also bear in mind that those photos were taken a week after the abuse. That's after a week of healing. Can't even imagine what they looked like immediately after.

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Agreed. This is not discipline. This is cruelty. If he left a dog looking like that, he'd go to jail. I hope he does a lot of time for doing that to his kid.

I'm a dad and those pictures made my blood boil. If someone did that to one of my kids, I'd be the one facing jail time for what I'd do to him.