Why Are We Surprised About The Offensive Line?

Deus Irae said:

I know the thread. A bunch of the clueless, led by a mod, demonstrated their cluelessness. That doesn't make them right. It just means that they don't understand either that 2nd and 8 is not the goal, or why 2nd and 8 is not the goal.

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That thread also has an Ignoramus who cannot grasp that 3rd and 5 is a manageable down if you picked up a measly 3 yards on 2nd and 8. You have options on 3rd and 5 and can run or pass to pick up a 1st down IF YOU ACTUALLY TRY TO RUN. 5 rushing attempts in the 2nd half is a joke.

Only a Numbskull would defend a 5 pass to 1 run ratio in a close game, in the South Florida heat.

It's not hard to understand. When they chuck the ball 55 times to 21 runs or 60 times to 20 runs, they've lost. They scored 20 points in the first half, and 0 in the second. The runs may not have had a great YPC average, but they were effective.

But hey, we have Tom Brady, so let's keep chucking it. That's also worked out well in the last two Super Bowls (14 and 17 points).

DefenseRules said:

I'm watching the Steelers/Ravens game. Their offensive lines are making me jealous, especially their centers. The Pats are weak at Center, IMO.
All offseason, I waited for BB to do something to improve the O-line. I was so happy to see them draft three OL. But the younglings are not ready to play I guess. Trading Mankins only made things worse.

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It looks like Graps was a good pick, BUT we Really needed help on the interior O-line (center guard). I was very perturbed with the draft past the first pick. And its starting to look like this issue isn't going to be solve with Devey at guard or Wendell at center....again

Triumph said:

That thread also has an Ignoramus who cannot grasp that 3rd and 5 is a manageable down if you picked up a measly 3 yards on 2nd and 8. You have options on 3rd and 5 and can run or pass to pick up a 1st down IF YOU ACTUALLY TRY TO RUN. 5 rushing attempts in the 2nd half is a joke.

Only a Numbskull would defend a 5 pass to 1 run ratio in a close game, in the South Florida heat.

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Wait.... You are actually going to pretend that teams are ok with 2nd and 10, because they figure they'll rack up 2-3 yards on the next run?

This is getting better by the post.

I didn't have a huge issue with the Mankins deal itself, but I think it' one of BB"s bigger mistakes not preparing for this as it's been coming for years. Like 2009 tbh. When Neal was starting to fall apart healthwise and Koppen began his decline, I believe each draft we entered thereafter I was waiting for a high pick or impact isgning for a long term solution at OG/C and 6 years later it still really was never addressed. We did have a great short term signing back in 2011 the guard from KC who's name escapes me but obviously wasn't a long term solution. Other than that I'm quite disappointed it's come to this. Hopefully Stork/FLeming are ready sooner than later because Brady's going to get demolished and other than maybe defensive front 7 that should've been our priority since long ago. I'm probably more on the homer side in general but I mean really, entering a season relying on the likes of Wendell/Connolly/Devey to be your HOF QB's main interior protection means something was neglected for years.

Deus Irae said:

1. Poor IOL personnel, made much worse by the Mankins trade
2. A pair of OTs who struggle against elite speed, and one OT (Solder) who struggles against top strength as well
3. Stupid idea to rotate a lot on the line when you just got rid of your best OL a week ago
4. Facing the Dolphins in the heat of the day

With that, why would anyone say this was surprising?

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I would completely agree with your post that the poor play of the OL in this game (particularly in the second half) is hardly surprising. The reasons (I won't call them "facts") I would list are different (except for 4.), basically they have to do with heat/conditioning, and the continuity that so important on the OL and the overall Offense:

HEAT/CONDITIONING
1. Sweltering heat that the Patriots simply could not handle in the second half
2. New rules that limit contact in Training Camp, presumably affecting conditioning

OL / OFFENSE CONTINUITY
3. Loss of Scar (I'm tempted to repeat this bullet five times)
4. Loss of Mankins
5. Fewer padded contact reps in camp
6. Players with extremely limited reps at a new position (Cannon, Devey)
7. Key players (Gronk, Dobson) shaking off the rust

When those factors are combined with the strong Miami DL and the way that Miami has been completely discounted in the off season (did you see the fire in the eyes of the DL in the second half?), to me, as you said, it is completely unsurprising that the OL laid an egg, particularly in the second half.

Now, if they play bad (I won't say "as bad", because that would be almost impossible) in Minnesota, then I'm really going to start panicking.

I see the Mankins thing differently. Vollmer returned freeing up Cannon for Mankins' spot. Everything else is by choice. If we wanted we could use last year's starting line with the exception of Cannon for Mankins. Compared to last year's starters, Devey over Wendell is solely by choice. The Mankins trade opened up a spot for Cannon.

pencilneckgeek said:

I think he valued the $6M in cap room this year more than he valued Mankins contributions this year relative to who he has on hand. I think he expected some growing pains, but thought they would have pulled together better than they showed on Sunday by then. I'm sure getting things sorted on the OL is at the top of his to-do list, right next to sorting out the run fits on D.

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if he feels that he had a younger player who was just as good or better to take his place then I can understand him trading a all pro G for a backup TE but if it was just to free up 6 million that will not be used this year then that is just crazy to me

I'm fine with trading Mankins in a vacuum. I'm less fine with the fact that the Pats have been starting below-average players (at best) at C and RG since 2012.

The last time the Pats had 5 good starters on the OL, Brady threw for 5,200 yards and the pats went to the Super Bowl.

patsfan-1982 said:

if he feels that he had a younger player who was just as good or better to take his place then I can understand him trading a all pro G for a backup TE but if it was just to free up 6 million that will not be used this year then that is just crazy to me

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Wright isn't a backup TE. He's the starter in that role. How much he plays, who knows, but he's not Gronk's backup. They have totally different games.

The team is still trying to figure out the best combo for the OL. The team is using ill-fitted defense formations. What was the preseason for? Shouldn't they have figured these things out by now? Mankins trade is a self-inflicted wound. If he was still around C was the only real question mark. Now it seems the entire interior OL is a big question mark.

Because people on this board rather live in la-la land than acknowledge the serious issues on this team. Then, when those serious issues play out exactly as you'd expect (Get rid of your best guard and the pass protection/run game go to ****?! Danny Amendola can't stay healthy?! This is truly shocking!") they act as if it's surprising.

There are still people on here who fully support the Danny Amendola signing and think Aaron Dobson is going to be a Pro-Bowl receiver. There are people on here who claim Ryan Mallet in retrospect was still a smart draft choice.

This team is good enough to win the division and make the playoffs again, but I really don't see how they're that improved from last year. Good enough to blowout mediocre teams, not good enough to win in January. I'm already picturing us, blowing a #1 seed, going to Denver in the AFCCG again (where Gronk will almost most certainly be on IR by that point) watching Manning pick us apart with 0 pass rush and Brady forcing balls to Edleman as he has no other legit target on the team.

Pessimistic Pete said:

Because people on this board rather live in la-la land than acknowledge the serious issues on this team. Then, when those serious issues play out exactly as you'd expect (Get rid of your best guard and the pass protection/run game go to ****?! Danny Amendola can't stay healthy?! This is truly shocking!") they act as if it's surprising.

There are still people on here who fully support the Danny Amendola signing and think Aaron Dobson is going to be a Pro-Bowl receiver. There are people on here who claim Ryan Mallet in retrospect was still a smart draft choice.

This team is good enough to win the division and make the playoffs again, but I really don't see how they're that improved from last year. Good enough to blowout mediocre teams, not good enough to win in January. I'm already picturing us, blowing a #1 seed, going to Denver in the AFCCG again (where Gronk will almost most certainly be on IR by that point) watching Manning pick us apart with 0 pass rush and Brady forcing balls to Edleman as he has no other legit target on the team.

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Well, you certainly earned your username with this post. Can't disagree with much of what you wrote, I just hope you're wrong.

KontradictioN said:

Well, you certainly earned your username with this post. Can't disagree with much of what you wrote, I just hope you're wrong.

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I hope I'm 100% wrong and look like a moron in January.

But week 1 basically summed up all the problems with this team. While I expect the team to improve and eventually go on a nice run in the middle of the season all those very same issues are going to be rear their head in January. Physical D-Line dominating, decent running back running all over us, Brady forcing balls due to his disgrace of receiving options, no pass rush, etc. etc.

It's still such a damn shame all that money they flushed down the toilet for Amendola, really inexcusable when we're in the twilight of Brady's career. And to make it even worse, LaFell was the biggest offensive acquisition this offeseason.

if Revis doesn't eventually return to form as an elite (not "solid", not "good", but elite, like he's being paid) All-Pro CB (I'm praying week 1 was a freaky blip on the radar) this team is no better than last year, period.

Pessimistic Pete said:

I hope I'm 100% wrong and look like a moron in January.

But week 1 basically summed up all the problems with this team. While I expect the team to improve and eventually go on a nice run in the middle of the season all those very same issues are going to be rear their head in January. Physical D-Line dominating, decent running back running all over us, Brady forcing balls due to his disgrace of receiving options, no pass rush, etc. etc.

It's still such a damn shame all that money they flushed down the toilet for Amendola, really inexcusable when we're in the twilight of Brady's career. And to make it even worse, LaFell was the biggest offensive acquisition this offeseason.

if Revis doesn't eventually return to form as an elite (not "solid", not "good", but elite, like he's being paid) All-Pro CB (I'm praying week 1 was a freaky blip on the radar) this team is no better than last year, period.

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Unfortunately, being perpetually disappointed that the Patriots don't win the Super Bowl every year is a part of being a pats fan.

Pessimistic Pete said:

I hope I'm 100% wrong and look like a moron in January.

But week 1 basically summed up all the problems with this team. While I expect the team to improve and eventually go on a nice run in the middle of the season all those very same issues are going to be rear their head in January. Physical D-Line dominating, decent running back running all over us, Brady forcing balls due to his disgrace of receiving options, no pass rush, etc. etc.

It's still such a damn shame all that money they flushed down the toilet for Amendola, really inexcusable when we're in the twilight of Brady's career. And to make it even worse, LaFell was the biggest offensive acquisition this offeseason.

if Revis doesn't eventually return to form as an elite (not "solid", not "good", but elite, like he's being paid) All-Pro CB (I'm praying week 1 was a freaky blip on the radar) this team is no better than last year, period.

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Again, it's hard for me to disagree on any of this. I've been calling for improvement along the interior OL for two years, a legitimate WR1 since 2010 (Dobson may solve this), a quality strong safety type for five years, and multiple capable pass rushers for two. I think Revis is still elite. I just think the way the coaching staff used him up until late in the 4th quarter left a lot open to question. There are very few situations where he should be playing off. Miami was not one of them.

Actually, being perpetually disappointed that the (fill in name of any NFL team) doesn't win the Super Bowl every year is a part of being a (name of same team) fan.

jmt57 said:

Actually, being perpetually disappointed that the (fill in name of any NFL team) doesn't win the Super Bowl every year is a part of being a (name of same team) fan.

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You should try being a Browns fan for a day.

JackBauer said:

You should try being a Browns fan for a day.

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Exactly! The expectations for the pats compared to those for a terrible team are much higher. The pats are a perennial Super Bowl contender whereas teams like the Browns would be happy if they could make the playoffs every other year.

Deus Irae said:

Outside of the Insane Homer Posse, who's surprised? Hell, even some of them probably saw this coming.

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It is surprising that Solder & Vollmer underperformed, and that has nothing to do with the Mankins trade.

I was for the Mankins trade at the time because I thought one of the two guys I didn't want on the field (Devey or Wendell) was bound for starting anyway. Had I known Cannon was going to be moved to guard, then a Solder-Mankins-Connolly-Cannon-Vollmer group was what I would've rooted for.

Oh well. I understand why they made the move anyway.