Why Are We Surprised About The Offensive Line?

mayoclinic said:

Since when do we pay attention to what the press says?

The OL and DL sucked last week. That's a given. If we can't win in the trenches, it will be a long year. That's also pretty much a given. As a general rule, the team that loses the battle in the trenches loses the game. But given a sustained record of excellence that is unparalleled in the salary cap era, it seems a bit early to be panicking. We've gone from a SB contender to a team that JUST SUCKS in just 1 game.

I don't expect any sugar-coating the problems, but I think a little more fortitude would not be out of place.

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I think the problems on the DL are legitimate, but by season's end, they won't be as glaring as they were in week 1 (provided no one goes down).

I think the general fear over the O-line however, comes from how it played against a team that many of us thought was below average. Granted, Miami's always played us tough in their home field, and they have some good players on the D. However, many of us believe that they aren't the best D we're facing all year, and that's a cause for concern given how the line fared in week 1.

Granted, I don't believe it's quite time to flush this season down the drain, but I do believe that BB will either have to make a trade to redress this situation, or one of the younger guys will have to firmly entrench themselves on the line, if we are to make any sort of deep playoff run.

Look we can fix the offensive line problems to a degree:

Solder - Cannon - Stork- Connelly - Vollmer

As Simms said on tonight's broadcast, the center makes all the difference in the world. We have not had a strong center since Koppen's prime. Get rid of Wendell or whoever is in there at center and put in Stork and see what he can do.

The thing I'm most worried about is Solder and Vollmer. They were turnstyles against Miami.

Jackson 2 said:

And a silver lining to that cloud will, hopefully, be the disappearance of people who fill this board incessantly with negative crap. It won't be worth it, but it'll be close.

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The seeds of failure are grown during the good times because people ignore obvious concerns because they are blinded by success. I think there is a fundamental difference between discussing legitimate concerns and questionable decisions and filling the board with negative crap as you suggest. I think that blind non objective posting is just as detrimental to the board if not worse than posting something negative. I'm a realist, if you are not and prefer to live under false pretense so be it.

mcmurtry86 said:

1. Mankins was not an All-Pro caliber player last year.

2. The OL looked like crap with Mankins in there.

3. Mankins has had some of his worst games on the biggest stage.

4. The idea that his absence is a detriment to the passing game is ridiculous. He was one of the worst pass-blocking G in the NFL last year. You might have an argument in terms of run blocking but that's not really what anyone seems to be discussing.

5. I fail to see how Belichick "decimated the WR group" by letting Welker go and adding Amendola. He also added a 2nd round draftee (Dobson) That's not decimation. The rest of the 2012 WR's were out of the league last year (Stallworth, Lloyd and Hernandez if you want to count him) or on the team (Edelman). The fact that you use the term "decimated" makes your agenda here in regards to the WR's very clear.

There's room to criticize or debate Belichick's personnel moves but you're not making the right arguments at all.

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How much was Mankins trying to cover for mistakes by Wendell or Solder? We saw Mankins play LT last season and he did just fine, I don't think he's the issue. Anyway, the real question is whether the line is better with him or without him, and I think that question has been answered.

BB could have spent the Grop pick on Trai Turner or Gabe Jackson but he got a backup QB instead, he could have kept Mankins but we have a green TE instead. Neither one of those decisions have helped the O-line.

BB has on of the best QBs ever and he's not giving him adequate weapons nor protection.

Brady6 said:

You can quote me on this – Bill Belichick will never win a Super Bowl without Tom Brady.

He has not been able to win a Super Bowl in a decade with Tom Brady, I mean someone as smart as Belichick cannot be that delusional. If he is I would take a long look at early alzheimer's.

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I agree with you that BB won't win without TFB but he has publicly said that he wants to.

Brady6 said:

The seeds of failure are grown during the good times because people ignore obvious concerns because they are blinded by success. I think there is a fundamental difference between discussing legitimate concerns and questionable decisions and filling the board with negative crap as you suggest. I think that blind non objective posting is just as detrimental to the board if not worse than posting something negative. I'm a realist, if you are not and prefer to live under false pretense so be it.

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What makes you think I was referring to you?

mcmurtry86 said:

1. Mankins was not an All-Pro caliber player last year.

2. The OL looked like crap with Mankins in there.

3. Mankins has had some of his worst games on the biggest stage.

4. The idea that his absence is a detriment to the passing game is ridiculous. He was one of the worst pass-blocking G in the NFL last year. You might have an argument in terms of run blocking but that's not really what anyone seems to be discussing.

5. I fail to see how Belichick "decimated the WR group" by letting Welker go and adding Amendola. He also added a 2nd round draftee (Dobson) That's not decimation. The rest of the 2012 WR's were out of the league last year (Stallworth, Lloyd and Hernandez if you want to count him) or on the team (Edelman). The fact that you use the term "decimated" makes your agenda here in regards to the WR's very clear.

There's room to criticize or debate Belichick's personnel moves but you're not making the right arguments at all.

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I do not have a problem with the move to trade Logan Mankins I have a problem with the timing of it and the lack of transition time. We were not prepared for the change and timing is everything.

Jackson 2 said:

What makes you think I was referring to you?

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I don't think you were, I think you know I'm not going anywhere and I say more positive than I do negative. I was just saying my thoughts on that because I think there is many different ways to look at how to be a fan and support a team and no way is more right than wrong.

Snake Eyes said:

I agree with you that BB won't win without TFB but he has publicly said that he wants to.

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I think at some point Father Time is going to limit Belichick and he will need to be more realistic. Things fell into place with New England for him at the right times with Brady. Realistically to do that again with another QB is going to be tougher because this league is such a passing league you really cannot just win with a strong defense and a game manger QB. Some think Seattle did that last year but Wilson is actually a terrific QB and they have Lynch who is a top 5 RB.

Brady6 said:

I don't think you were, I think you know I'm not going anywhere and I say more positive than I do negative. I was just saying my thoughts on that because I think there is many different ways to look at how to be a fan and support a team and no way is more right than wrong.

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OK, fair enough. Then, why did you suggest I'm not a realist who prefers to live under false pretenses?

Jackson 2 said:

OK, fair enough. Then, why did you suggest I'm not a realist who prefers to live under false pretenses?

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I was speaking in broad terms not specific to you. I actually think you are an excellent poster who is always objective.

Brady6 said:

I was speaking in broad terms not specific to you. I actually think you are an excellent poster who is always objective.

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Thanks for the compliment (I think), but if I look at myself objectively, I'm primarily a homer. I just don't define homer the way many others do and certainly much less disparagingly. Asshats like Shaughnessy (fanboys) and Felger (Patriot footy-pajama wearers) define homers differently than I do, but that's life.

Jackson 2 said:

Thanks for the compliment (I think), but if I look at myself objectively, I'm primarily a homer. I just don't define homer the way many others do and certainly much less disparagingly. Asshats like Shaughnessy (fanboys) and Felger (Patriot footy-pajama wearers) define homers differently than I do, but that's life.

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I think with the exception of other teams fans who troll we are all homers to a degree. We all have are players that do no wrong, etc.

Too many people so quick to name their 53 ... every year I say we will know the team by weeks 6-8 ... every year the same thing - inane to pick the team from training camp.

Deus Irae said:

Outside of the Insane Homer Posse, who's surprised? Hell, even some of them probably saw this coming.

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lmao-Yeah Deus, that's why pretty much every person on this site named OL their greatest concern.

IcyPatriot said:

Too many people so quick to name their 53 ... every year I say we will know the team by weeks 6-8 ... every year the same thing - inane to pick the team from training camp.

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Even Bequette?

Bellichick is a MadMan if he seriously is more concerned with winning a Superbowl without Tom Brady than he is with taking advantage of the luxury of having the QB ever. Elway knows to take advantage of having Manning. While Bill is concerned with wanting to win after Brady because he is jealous Brady gets more credit and recognition than he does. What kind of nut wouldn't want to try to win a championship when he is garunteed a great chance with having a GOAT QB. He should know that after Brady he may not have a Franchise QB much less a QB you can win at all with. He is missing the bus while he doesn't even know if another is coming. He should know that he may not be able to find a franchise QB just like he hasn't been able to find a #1 WR, An elite edge rusher, A starting Cornerback, Top end OLineman orDLineman. What makes him think another rare Great QB that can carry a subpar team will show up which is tougher to find than other positions. He drafted Grapps thinking if Brady gets hurt he has another QB that can carry his team?! He should be looking to surround his QB with talent to win a championship, and if he finds another good QB, he will need talent around him to win. Why did Bill draft a backup qb in the event Tom gets hurt when the talent surrounding the QB isn't good enough to help him win. The colts went 2--14 not because of their backup QB. They were terrible because the team sucked and no Backup QB was good enough to carry them and cover up weaknesses like their HOF starter. In simple terms did Bill think he had a team good enough to win without Brady when he drafted Grapps. I want young talent to step up because I knew they won't win a championship unless players like Logan Ryan, Harmon, Fleming, Easley,Buchanan, Moore, Kenbrell, Dobson step up then they wont win the championship.

Harmon was beat out by Chung which isn't good cuz he isn't a rookie. In a 4-3 a standout edge rusher opposite Chandler is needed. Complete WRs with size speed savy are needed. Stout OLine to handle DTs one on one are needed which means Fleming must start at guard because Wendy,Kline,Devey aren't good enough. 3-4 or 4-3 somebody to consistently pressure QBs is needed opposite Chandler. Outside Mayo the team has no 3 down LBs which other positions must compensate. BTW Osemele is dominating tonight and Fleming has very similar size power talent and Osemele dominated Wilfork as a rookie when we played the Ravens in 2012 AFCCG. By playoff time Fleming could be dominant. Devey you know will not

Brady6 said:

You can quote me on this – Bill Belichick will never win a Super Bowl without Tom Brady.

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In a league that arguably has more built-in parity than any other sport, taking the field versus one team is a bit of a lopsided bet.

Brady6 said:

He has not been able to win a Super Bowl in a decade with Tom Brady, I mean someone as smart as Belichick cannot be that delusional. If he is I would take a long look at early alzheimer's.

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Why the implicit assumption that a team should automatically win championships?

NFL football is the ultimate team sport. While a quarterback is more important than any other position player in the game, he doesn't have the impact that, for example, a single player in (five-on-five) basketball does. Then you have the double-edged sword of free agency and a genuine salary cap, working in tandem with the very many injuries that occur every year, nuances of fluky bounces, questionable judgement calls by officials, and relatively short 16-game season in a single-game elimination playoff system.

The assertion that Belichick is underachieving and that the Patriots should automatically win championships year after year after year is very short-sighted, in my opinion.

IcyPatriot said:

Too many people so quick to name their 53 ... every year I say we will know the team by weeks 6-8 ... every year the same thing - inane to pick the team from training camp.

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You are correct. We were insane to think that Belichick preferred to have Mankins as a starter instead of Devey. That is your charge agains us after all.

Let us all be clear. All this may work out fine. We may win the conference and the Super Bowl. However, for all the bluster, our concerns are really about getting rid of Mankins and of Kelly (and the defensive game plan). And, yes, we disagree with the solution at S2.

In the end, this is NOT about bad coaching, bad tackling or even bad blocking. I do agree that we have had all of that last Sunday. And those can be improved upon. The three biggest problems/issues are GM/FO issues. We have lost Mankins and Kelly. We are starting Devey, Vellano and Chung. The coaches (defensive and offensive) did incredible work last year. They are still here. It says an awful lot about the team for these three to be starters.