It cannot get much worse, so why not?

BradyFTW! · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
The OL played terrible on Sunday and honestly, it probably could not get much worse. With that in mind I am all for them just starting an OL of:

LT- Nate Solder
LG- Marcus Cannon
OC- Bryan Stork
RG- Cameron Fleming
RT- Sebastian Vollmer

At the end of the day this lineup puts are most physically talented players on the field together and with the right coaching they should be able to make it work. Why waste time with the likes of Devey and Wendell, if they are going to play like ****, why not just let the rookies play and make the same mistakes but at least it helps their development.

If Stork or Fleming is having a terrible game for whatever reason, you pull them out and stick Connolly in to calm things down for that game.

This may sound dumb to some, or impulsive but ultimately we drafted Stork and Fleming to likely play those positions along the line so why not just do it now early in the season, why wait 3-4 more weeks only to realize Devey and Wendell are not going to be able to help us.

Thoughts, opinions, or statements of outrage are welcome.

What happens if a tackle gets hut (which, with Vollmer out there, is extremely likely)? swing tackle is a borderline starter, and I don't want Devey to be that guy.

lurker1965 · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
The OL played terrible on Sunday and honestly, it probably could not get much worse. ...

What have never seen a sitcom? NEVER EVER say that!!!!!! If anything goes wrong I blame you.

The idea is OK, but your word choice just cursed them.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

mgteich said:
MY REACTION
It is not unusual for posters to overreact and want start rookies after one loss.

IMHO, this kind of reaction shows no faith in the management, coaches or players. The team was 3 points down with 10 minutes to go, and we had the ball. To suggest that it couldn't any worse is silly at best. The OL was playing in 90 degree temperature and humidity. One of the 6 men schedule for significant reps was injured. And yes, the youngster that DID play had a terrible first outing.

So, the answer when a line doesn't do well with 3 changes and ONE youngster starting is to make 2 more changes and have 2 ROOKIES starting. I'm not buying.

Can I ask you a question? Why do you write on top of the posts you quote instead of under it like 99.9% of the posters on the board?

As far as overacting, let us look at the picture before we suggest an overreaction has occurred. Last season Brady was sacked 41 times, which was the highest total of his career, he was sacked 4 times in the opener, which projects to 64 times over a 16 game season. The Patriots front office decided the best way to deal with an obvious problem was to draft a QB at #62 while there was multiple starting quality OL available on the draft board, despite not being able to protect are current QB. Then trade down in the draft and select 3 OL, 2 of them had 7th round-UDFA grades, and the other was a college OT never taking a snap at OG or OC. After 3 weeks of the preseason in which Stork was mainly injured, Fleming only played OT and was inconsistent doing so, and Halapio played so poorly he could not even make the practice squad for any of the 32 in the NFL; the Patriots thought it best to trade their all pro OG with a week remaining in the preseason. Well MG looking at that I am having a hard time thing of why the **** I should have any confidence in management.

Last season you were the poster who sang this same exact song about the WR, suggesting things were going to get better and anyone questioning it was overacting and should trust management. Well you were wrong then because the WR situation did not improve, Amendola did not improve as the season went, Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce did not develop into consistent starters, and outside of Edelman there were no legitimate WRs on the roster at the end of the season. Now you are telling me that I should expect something different with the OL, because I do not, just so you know, I think Belichick made the same stupid and impulsive decision he made with the safeties a few years back and the receivers last year. When he gutted the position and handed the positions over to some JAG level players or rookies who were not ready for the role.

Honestly, if you were not proven wrong last season when you suggested this about the receivers, and wrong about a number of other things over the last year where you acted as if my reaction was excessive I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt. Right now, your creditability on these types of situations is very questionable in my mind.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
What happens if a tackle gets hut (which, with Vollmer out there, is extremely likely)? swing tackle is a borderline starter, and I don't want Devey to be that guy.

You would move Cannon or Fleming to tackle and insert Kline, Devey, or Stork into the lineup at OG or OC. A player can start at one position and still back up the other.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

mgteich said:
Have we signed a new player named "Stork" ? Just 3-4 weeks ago, many here were suggesting that the only reason that he would make the 53 was that he was a 4th round draft choice. Some even suggested (hoped?) that he would be put on the IR-Return list. And now, Stork is a better center than Connolly or Wendell? Really?

I have no words for those who think that the way to improve the OL is to start Fleming.

Belichick apparently thought so much of Devey that he was willing to cut Mankins to make way for him as a starter. Apparently, Cannon was already considered a starter at one of the guard spots.

IMHO, we should focus our criticism better. There is ONE problem, and it is NOT our backup center. The problem is Devey. There are several options for the next couple of weeks.

1) CONNOLLY at center, and DEVEY at RG

2) WENDELL at center and CONNOLLY at RG

3) CONNOLLY at center, and KLINE at RG (or at LG, with Cannon at RG)

4) BARKER at center and CONNOLLY at RG

5) STORK at center and CONNOLLY at RG

IMHO, we need to have some continuity. With Connolly at center, continuity will remain at LT-LG-C. Connolly is our best center, by far. So, for me, the question is who plays RG. If Devey and Kline are SO bad, then I would go with Wendell at C and Connolly at RG. I would even consider a backup free agent RG. It is disturbing to me that Kline isn't even good enough to be active. Perhaps, it was a close decision between Kline and Devey, in which case, we could see Kline this week.

Well Barker is on the practice squad and he does not play OC.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

ATippett56 said:
2014 6th Round Draft Pick Jon Halapio was not the answer.

How bad is he, he was not even able to make one of the 32 practice squads in the NFL.

BradyFTW! · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
You would move Cannon or Fleming to tackle and insert Kline, Devey, or Stork into the lineup at OG or OC. A player can start at one position and still back up the other.

Considering that lack of continuity is such a huge issue for the OL right now, that strikes me as a really bad idea.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
Considering that lack of continuity is such a huge issue for the OL right now, that strikes me as a really bad idea.

Mankins moved to LT last season and in years past. I do not see an issue if it is a competent player.

Ivan · Sep 11, 2014

Jimke said:
If the Patriots are still trotting out Devey and Wendell at the end of the season, there will be no playoffs.

I think there will still be play-offs they just won't last long in them.

BradyFTW! · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
Mankins moved to LT last season and in years past. I do not see an issue if it is a competent player.

As an emergency since their swing tackle had already been pressed into starting duty, sure. That's worlds apart from actually planning on starting that lineup every week.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
As an emergency since their swing tackle had already been pressed into starting duty, sure. That's worlds apart from actually planning on starting that lineup every week.

I do not follow at all. Solder and Vollmer played all but one snap last week, so I do not see the swing tackle as a borderline starter at all. If we are talking about an injury Cannon would move to OT, they would not insert Fleming as a a full time OT over Cannon. So what is the difference?

BradyFTW! · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
I do not follow at all. Solder and Vollmer played all but one snap last week, so I do not see the swing tackle as a borderline starter at all. If we are talking about an injury Cannon would move to OT, they would not insert Fleming as a a full time OT over Cannon. So what is the difference?

Yes, in week 1 they played most snaps. Week to week, this likely will not be the case. And yes, if Cannon is the fulltime LG, then that would mean that, upon Vollmer or Solder being injured, Cannon would stay at G and Fleming would become a tackle. That's what happened last week when Vollmer was hurt.

p8ryts · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
The OL played terrible on Sunday and honestly, it probably could not get much worse. With that in mind I am all for them just starting an OL of:

LT- Nate Solder
LG- Marcus Cannon
OC- Bryan Stork
RG- Cameron Fleming
RT- Sebastian Vollmer

At the end of the day this lineup puts are most physically talented players on the field together and with the right coaching they should be able to make it work. Why waste time with the likes of Devey and Wendell, if they are going to play like ****, why not just let the rookies play and make the same mistakes but at least it helps their development.

If Stork or Fleming is having a terrible game for whatever reason, you pull them out and stick Connolly in to calm things down for that game.

This may sound dumb to some, or impulsive but ultimately we drafted Stork and Fleming to likely play those positions along the line so why not just do it now early in the season, why wait 3-4 more weeks only to realize Devey and Wendell are not going to be able to help us.

Thoughts, opinions, or statements of outrage are welcome.

Was this your first football game ?

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
Yes, in week 1 they played most snaps. Week to week, this likely will not be the case. And yes, if Cannon is the fulltime LG, then that would mean that, upon Vollmer or Solder being injured, Cannon would stay at G and Fleming would become a tackle. That's what happened last week when Vollmer was hurt.

You should look at the snap counts for last season and the season before. With the exception of injuries the OT played 98% of the snaps.

I completely disagree that they would start Fleming and leave Cannon at guard. They would move Cannon to tackle and insert Kline, Devey, or Wendell, whoever the back up is. They would want the backup player at an inside position long term and not playing against edge rushers. This is why Cannon played both OT positions in the preseason.

Brady6 · Sep 11, 2014

p8ryts said:
Was this your first football game ?

Wow, with contributions like this to discussions I can see why I didn't even realize you were a user on here.. .

mgteich · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
Then trade down in the draft and select 3 OL, 2 of them had 7th round-UDFA grades, and the other was a college OT never taking a snap at OG or OC. After 3 weeks of the preseason in which Stork was mainly injured, Fleming only played OT and was inconsistent doing so, and Halapio played so poorly he could not even make the practice squad for any of the 32 in the NFL; the Patriots thought it best to trade their all pro OG with a week remaining in the preseason. Well MG looking at that I am having a hard time thing of why the **** I should have any confidence in management.

First, I will ignore all the hype that you gave the OL's that the patriots drafts, thinking that they ALL would be starters.
================
I think think it amusing at your position, given that you who were so psyched about the three draftees that you wanted to cut Wendell and Connolly now and Mankins next year.

More importantly, please post the rating which show them to be 7th round or UDFA rated players. I looked a walterfootball rating (they are may better).

Stork was 4-6 round rating, OK given the need to develop a center, and the fact that he was from a major program.

Fleming was a 3-4 round rating. He is a bit raw. Most think of him as a future RG, or even RT as he played in college. Personally, I think he well met the need for a swing OT, with Cannon possibly moving to OG or even gone next year.

Hilapio (rated as 3-5 rounder) was a shot in the dark with a 6th rounder. Some here (I'll dig out all you posts if you like) thought that he was rady to start this year. Some thought next year. Some thought that he was a shot in the dark to make the 53 or even the Practice Squad, given that we had Devey, Kline and Barker.
=========

For me, I was indeed surprised, but not about the draftees. I was surprised that Belichick thought so much of them, Devey and Kline that he thought it reasonable to cut Mankins. I was also wrong about thinking that Cannon was considered an OT by belichick, and not a guard.

mgteich · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
As far as overacting, let us look at the picture before we suggest an overreaction has occurred.

OK, at your suggestion, I have reconsidered the picture. Three weeks ago, many thought that we had the best roster since 2007. We have played one game, and played poorly for one half of that game. So, the evidence is in; we sucked for an entire half. Next week is another game.

I see no reason for projecting stats from one game, as if all the games will be like Game 1 for us or for any team.

ausbacker · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
Wow, with contributions like this to discussions I can see why I didn't even realize you were a user on here.. .

C'mon man. Pull pack from the self importance and simply ignore a comment if you don't like it. The number of posts and their frequency isn't indicative of quality.

Regarding your OL, swap out Fleming for Connolly and I would be happy with that unit. I can't be convinced that Stork will perform any worse than Wendell.

mgteich · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
Honestly, if you were not proven wrong last season when you suggested this about the receivers, and wrong about a number of other things over the last year where you acted as if my reaction was excessive I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt. Right now, your creditability on these types of situations is very questionable in my mind.

You are correct. I did NOT predict that the four of our receivers would be injured, that Gronk would be out as much as he was and that Vereen would be out more than half the year. And no, my assessment of last year's passing game is NOT that of a failed one. In fact, the receivers did improve and the team has one of the past passing games in the league, even given to the injuries of SIX of their receivers.

As an aside, I wanted to sign an addition free agent at the beginning of last season, because of the uncertainty among the rookies.

mgteich · Sep 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
Can I ask you a question? Why do you write on top of the posts you quote instead of under it like 99.9% of the posters on the board?

As far as overacting, let us look at the picture before we suggest an overreaction has occurred. Last season Brady was sacked 41 times, which was the highest total of his career, he was sacked 4 times in the opener, which projects to 64 times over a 16 game season. The Patriots front office decided the best way to deal with an obvious problem was to draft a QB at #62 while there was multiple starting quality OL available on the draft board, despite not being able to protect are current QB. Then trade down in the draft and select 3 OL, 2 of them had 7th round-UDFA grades, and the other was a college OT never taking a snap at OG or OC. After 3 weeks of the preseason in which Stork was mainly injured, Fleming only played OT and was inconsistent doing so, and Halapio played so poorly he could not even make the practice squad for any of the 32 in the NFL; the Patriots thought it best to trade their all pro OG with a week remaining in the preseason. Well MG looking at that I am having a hard time thing of why the **** I should have any confidence in management.

Last season you were the poster who sang this same exact song about the WR, suggesting things were going to get better and anyone questioning it was overacting and should trust management. Well you were wrong then because the WR situation did not improve, Amendola did not improve as the season went, Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce did not develop into consistent starters, and outside of Edelman there were no legitimate WRs on the roster at the end of the season. Now you are telling me that I should expect something different with the OL, because I do not, just so you know, I think Belichick made the same stupid and impulsive decision he made with the safeties a few years back and the receivers last year. When he gutted the position and handed the positions over to some JAG level players or rookies who were not ready for the role.

Honestly, if you were not proven wrong last season when you suggested this about the receivers, and wrong about a number of other things over the last year where you acted as if my reaction was excessive I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt. Right now, your creditability on these types of situations is very questionable in my mind.

It cannot get much worse, so why not?

Goodell sucks

In the Starting Line-Up

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

Goodell sucks

Pro Bowl Player

Hall of Fame Poster

Goodell sucks

Pro Bowl Player

Goodell sucks

In the Starting Line-Up

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Veteran

PatsFans.com Veteran

TB12

PatsFans.com Veteran

PatsFans.com Veteran

Similar threads