The misuse of Chandler Jones week one at Miami

Rob0729 · Sep 10, 2014

Chandler Jones, purely a pass rusher in his first two seasons in the league, is getting a lot of work as a 3-4 outside linebacker in camp. He’s now participating in seven-on-seven drills, and it’s not uncommon to see him chasing tight ends down the field in coverage.

“It’s fun, I enjoy it,” said Jones. “It gives me a chance to get out and run a little bit. I always joke in practice, ‘Oh, I’m Darrelle Revis!’ And everyone laughs.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...ool-defense/oCGJX7oAlhWPjAADjMnL5I/story.html

The first, and most fundamental, is how he is lining up. As a traditional defensive lineman, he was putting his hand in the dirt, pinning his ears back and getting into the backfield. As an outside linebacker, though, he is starting off standing upright in a two-point stance.

Jones is growing more comfortable with the new position. He has played upright before, but admits he's doing it "a lot more" this year than he's done it in the past. That being said, the coaching staff clearly has confidence in his ability to handle anything they throw his way.

If he keeps having nights like he had on Friday — registering two sacks, one hit, and three tackles for loss — he could be the outside linebacker the Patriots were missing in the years following the departure of Willie McGinest, when they were trying (unsuccessfully) to run the 3-4 defense.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...reseason_week_3_notes_chandler_jones_dom.html

I don't know what happened. All preseason and training camp they were grooming Jones to be an OLB and all the sudden, they use him as a DE?

Ring 6 · Sep 10, 2014

ATippett56 said:
You're wrong and you were wrong about the New England Patriots pass happy tendencies that only lead to losses.

As I said......

Brady6 · Sep 10, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
The 34 we play today is not the 34 we played years ago.
BB transitioned from a defense with 3 300lbers and 4 in the 250-270 range to one with 5 in the 250-270 range and 2 300lbs a few years ago because of the change in the game.
He isn't going backward, and he isn't going to pretend a 260 lb guy is 300lbs.
If you agree he wasn't playing 2 gap then you agree it wasn't the old 34.
What it is, is the concepts of the 43 that had 2 300lbers and 2 260lbers, stemmed into a 34.
The position Jones plays is the same in the current version of 43 or 34.
That is why if you think Jones is being misused, then you must think he was being misused as a 43 DE.
McGinest would be playing DE because the RDE position has the responsibilities of the 43 RDE.

If you want to think that a defense should play man all day every day because they have a good man corner, thats fine, I disagree. Its about the team defense, not one player. I fail to understand your logic that if you don't use a player a certain way every play he has no value.

By the way, you do understand that Jones was 'setting the edge' on running plays, and was rushing from the edge on passing plays, right? What do you think he was doing?
What do you want him to do? His role is the same in this defense as it has been since he arrived here. The fact that other players are aligned differently seems to be clouding our understanding of this.

That is simply not true; all preseason the Patriots used a 3-4 front with 3 OL who were 300lbs or more. An example would be the starting unit from the third preseason game:

LOLB- Rob Ninkovich
LE- Tommy Kelly
NT- Vince Wilfork
RE- Joe Vellano
ROLB- Chandler Jones

Then for week 1 of the regular season used the exact same scheme only difference being instead of playing ROLB Chandler Jones was playing RE.

Ring 6 · Sep 10, 2014

Rob0729 said:
First, Jones his first two years would line up outside the tackle most of the time, not directly on him. And except for certain packages, he was at the end of the line outside a DT. On Sunday in the second half, he was inside exclusively next to an OLB.

He is playing outside shoulder of the OT, just like he has for 2 years in the base defense.

Second, if Jones' natural position is DE in the 3-4, why did they waste the entire preseason playing him at OLB in the 3-4?

Click to expand...

Is this a question for me or Belichick? With BB as coach though, you should know the answer.

He was pretty awesome in the third preseason game standing upright as an OLB getting two sacks and playing surprisingly well when they dropped back in coverage. How do you explain that if his natural position is DE in that formation? To show everyone that he is not an OLB? If that was the agenda, they did a poor job. I was excited for the 3-4 going into the regular season because of how awesome Jones looked at OLB, not DE.

He would have done the same thing in a 3 point stance.

Third, I know what I was talking about rushing the QB from the edge and setting the edge against the run. Don't act like I don't.

Well thats what he did Sunday.

Fourth, I never said they should play man all day. But I wouldn't have gone into the game Sunday like they did and almost exclusively play Revis off coverage and play a huge amount of zone defense.

I will trust that Belichick has a better idea of how to game plan for an opponent than you, but your disagreement with him is noted.

ATippett56 · Sep 10, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
As I said......

Post #105 - You're wrong

Post #113 - You're wrong

Brady6 · Sep 10, 2014

ATippett56 said:
For starters, put Joe Vellano on waivers.

Joe Vellano represents one of the things that annoy me about Belichick sometimes, he locks into these UDFA hard working players who have **** for talent and he tries to will them to success. The run defense was solid last season until Wilfork and Kelly were hurt and Vellano stepped in and it sucked, then they took Vellano out of the starting lineup and inserted Siliga, at that time the run defense went back to being solid. Vellano is not a good player; he is slow footed, not very strong, and he lacks ideal size for the any of the DL positions. He does not belong on an active roster led alone in a starting unit.

Rob0729 · Sep 10, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
He is playing outside shoulder of the OT, just like he has for 2 years in the base defense.

Is this a question for me or Belichick? With BB as coach though, you should know the answer.

He would have done the same thing in a 3 point stance.

Well thats what he did Sunday.

I will trust that Belichick has a better idea of how to game plan for an opponent than you, but your disagreement with him is noted.

He is not lining up in the same position and if he, that what the hell is Belichick doing leaving a gaping hole inside the defense? No wonder why the Dolphins ran all over the Pats they just filled the space where they had four players with only three.

I fully expect that once Chris Jones is back, Jones will move to OLB assuming they are still playing 3-4 and I hope you come back and biatch and moan about how they are misusing him. I guarantee you that if Belichick uses the 3-4 all year, they will be using Jones mostly at OLB. It just pissed me off that he didn't use him that way on Sunday.

I am done arguing this.

Ring 6 · Sep 10, 2014

Rob0729 said:
He is not lining up in the same position and if he, that what the hell is Belichick doing leaving a gaping hole inside the defense? No wonder why the Dolphins ran all over the Pats they just filled the space where they had four players with only three.

I fully expect that once Chris Jones is back, Jones will move to OLB assuming they are still playing 3-4 and I hope you come back and biatch and moan about how they are misusing him. I guarantee you that if Belichick uses the 3-4 all year, they will be using Jones mostly at OLB. It just pissed me off that he didn't use him that way on Sunday.

I am done arguing this.

Jones is in the same position. There is no gaping hole. There is a DT over the C and a LB over the G. We have always either done that or had the DT over the C and the LB over the C.

I just see no way that BB reverts to 3 300lb DL as his base defense. He evolved away from it when the passing game became more and more prevelant.
Are you saying that if we were playing a 43 he would take Ninkovich out and play Chris Jones at DE?
Because aside from alignment that is what you are saying.

ATippett56 · Sep 10, 2014

Brady6 said:
Joe Vellano represents one of the things that annoy me about Belichick sometimes, he locks into these UDFA hard working players who have **** for talent and he tries to will them to success. The run defense was solid last season until Wilfork and Kelly were hurt and Vellano stepped in and it sucked, then they took Vellano out of the starting lineup and inserted Siliga, at that time the run defense went back to being solid. Vellano is not a good player; he is slow footed, not very strong, and he lacks ideal size for the any of the DL positions. He does not belong on an active roster led alone in a starting unit.

Here lies the problem:

Belichick cuts Tommy Kelly, retains Joe Vellano.

Joe Vellano is at best a three technique defensive lineman that should be playing in the CFL.

Hey, but let's cut Meriweather AND Sanders only to retain Sergio Brown.

Ring 6 · Sep 10, 2014

ATippett56 said:
Post #105 - You're wrong

Post #113 - You're wrong

OK pal. Clearly you just aren't worth the time.

Brady6 · Sep 10, 2014

Marinlik · Sep 10, 2014

@AndyJohnson I'm looking at the all-22 tape right now. There where a bunch of times where Chandler started on the tackle but rushed over the guard. Not like he usually does and rush from the outside. So no. So no. Saying that he had the same responsibility now that he had last year as a regular 43 DE is incorrect. It looks like he rushes the B gap if the OLB blitzes outside of him. Which happened a whole bunch of times.

He doesn't 2 gap much, even though he looks to do it sometimes. It is mainly a 1 gap 3-4. But he has B gap responsibility much more than he had last year.He plays 5 tech most of the time. Only lines up right over the LT very few times.

I think this is misusing him as he is best as an outside rusher. Sure, stunt him inside a few times a game. But against Miami he did it a lot, and he isn't close to being as effective at that as he is as an outside rusher.

FCB02062 · Sep 10, 2014

Brady6 said:
Joe Vellano represents one of the things that annoy me about Belichick sometimes, he locks into these UDFA hard working players who have **** for talent and he tries to will them to success. The run defense was solid last season until Wilfork and Kelly were hurt and Vellano stepped in and it sucked, then they took Vellano out of the starting lineup and inserted Siliga, at that time the run defense went back to being solid. Vellano is not a good player; he is slow footed, not very strong, and he lacks ideal size for the any of the DL positions. He does not belong on an active roster led alone in a starting unit.

Because vellano is CCCCHHHHHEEEEEEAAAAAAAPPPPPP

Marqui · Sep 10, 2014

Brady6 said:
Joe Vellano represents one of the things that annoy me about Belichick sometimes, he locks into these UDFA hard working players who have **** for talent and he tries to will them to success. The run defense was solid last season until Wilfork and Kelly were hurt and Vellano stepped in and it sucked, then they took Vellano out of the starting lineup and inserted Siliga, at that time the run defense went back to being solid. Vellano is not a good player; he is slow footed, not very strong, and he lacks ideal size for the any of the DL positions. He does not belong on an active roster led alone in a starting unit.

Oh my god, yes. Guys like Kyle Love, Steve Gregory and Wendell; players we all know would be out of the league if they weren't here yet Bill starts them for years. What's up with him and these jag players?

Brady6 · Sep 10, 2014

Marqui said:
Oh my god, yes. Guys like Kyle Love, Steve Gregory and Wendell; players we all know would be out of the league if they weren't here yet Bill starts them for years. What's up with him and these jag players?

I think he values hard work, which is understandable, but the NFL is the best and players like Vellano just lack the physical talent to do much more than take up space. Look at Vellano’s workout numbers:

Height: 6013
Weight: 306
40 Yard Dash: 5.35
20 Yard Dash: 3.07
10 Yard Dash: 1.81
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 27
Vertical Jump: 27
Broad Jump: 07'08"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.47
3-Cone Drill: 7.58

Brady6 · Sep 10, 2014

FCB02062 said:
Because vellano is CCCCHHHHHEEEEEEAAAAAAAPPPPPP

I guess it is true what they say you get what you pay for.

eom · Sep 10, 2014

Brady6 said:
Joe Vellano represents one of the things that annoy me about Belichick sometimes, he locks into these UDFA hard working players who have **** for talent and he tries to will them to success. The run defense was solid last season until Wilfork and Kelly were hurt and Vellano stepped in and it sucked, then they took Vellano out of the starting lineup and inserted Siliga, at that time the run defense went back to being solid. Vellano is not a good player; he is slow footed, not very strong, and he lacks ideal size for the any of the DL positions. He does not belong on an active roster led alone in a starting unit.

fyi - siliga is udfa

I don't know if you knew that

eom · Sep 10, 2014

ATippett56 said:
Here lies the problem:

Belichick cuts Tommy Kelly, retains Joe Vellano.

Joe Vellano is at best a three technique defenseman lineman that should be playing in the CFL.

Hey, but let's cut Meriweather AND Sanders only to retain Sergio Brown.

I heard kelly requested the release because the DL rotation would screw snap incentives in his contract
that doesn't mean they have to release him, of course, but I don't know they did it 'cuz they thought he sucked, or something like that

ATippett56 · Sep 10, 2014

eom said:
fyi - siliga is udfa

I don't know if you knew that

Siliga is a better run stuffer than Vellano, Jones (Chris), Sopoaga.

Brady6 · Sep 10, 2014

eom said:
fyi - siliga is udfa

I don't know if you knew that

I was not referring to UDFA as a whole, I was referring to Vellano. I was aware that Siliga was a UDFA.

The misuse of Chandler Jones week one at Miami

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