Robert Kraft defends Roger Goodell: "The way he has handled this situation is excellent"

SB39 said:

... has been a driving force in making the NFL the behemoth it has become.

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Were you born yesterday? The NFL was a "behemoth" long before Roger came aboard. And his being a "driving force" in further bloating owner coffers arguably has harmed the game in the process.

SB39 said:

He is certainly better than his predecessor, who was a complete disaster.

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Tagliabue was far from a disaster. He oversaw labor peace while keeping a relatively low profile vs. his spotlight hogging successor.

SB39 said:

I also recognize that Goodell is an employee of the league and the owners are the ones giving marching orders

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Generally true, but Goodell has greater authority and autonomy than most realize, especially when it comes to hatching initiatives, how he carries out those "marching orders," and the execution of league personnel policies.

Well, it's about to get real for Goodell

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/09/10/nfl-violence-problem-goodell-calls-resign

NOW: NFL has 'violence against women problem'

• Women's group issues response to NFL's handling of Ray Rice hitting his fiancee
• The group is calling for NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to resign.

Tunescribe said:

Were you born yesterday? The NFL was a "behemoth" long before Roger came aboard.

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The NFL was nowhere near the behemoth when he took over that it is today.

Tunescribe said:

Tagliabue was far from a disaster. He oversaw labor peace while keeping a relatively low profile vs. his spotlight hogging successor.

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I suppose if you conveniently ignore the fact that under Tagliabue, players (literally) got away with murder and franchises were moving all across the country on a regular basis then sure, all was well.

Tunescribe said:

Generally true, but Goodell has greater authority and autonomy that most realize, especially when it comes to hatching initiatives, how he carries out those "marching orders," and the execution of league personnel policies.

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It depends on the subject. When it comes to player discipline, yes he has autonomy (and in the Ray Rice case, it has come back to burn him). But when it comes to things like London, 18 game seasons, expanded playoffs, Thursday night football and various rules changes, that's on the owners.

Goodell's base pay is around $7 million per year. That means the rest of his pay is likely based on performance benchmarks such revenue growth. It's not altogether clear to me just what Goodell has done to create this growth. It's a bit like giving him credit for the sun coming up - it was going to happen anyway.

The Rice situation is a very high profile screw-up as was Goodell's treatment of Bountygate. Goodell has to carry the water for both of those. That comes with the territory if you're going to be the highest paid employee in the NFL.

In most businesses, the CEO doesn't get to make two huge (and very public) mistakes. One might be fatal, but after the second, they're long gone and hard to find.

Tunescribe said:

OK, OK. Hyperbole (and Ray Rice) aside, let's pick and choose a few legitimate transgressions from that list, starting with "Cameragate" -- the ultimate Goodell screw-up. To lesser degrees his gross mishandling of other events involving players and coaches (Vick, Payton) and a slew of initiatives that have continually chipped away at the game's very fabric PROVE Goodell is ANYTHING but a steward of the game we love. He lies. The fact he does it in a soft, matter-of-fact tone doesn't make it acceptable. ESPECIALLY as a Patriots fan, you should be outraged at this disingenuous stuffed shirt instead of defending him.

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Oh I agree Spygate was poorly handled by just about everyone involved. I don't like how Belichick or Kraft handled that situation either, but I'm not calling for those guys to be fired.

I'm not sure how he mishandled Mike Vick. The guy was in jail for 2 years so, when he retuned, he was essentially suspended for "time already served" plus 4 games. If anything, my problem is with the fact that Vick can do what he did and only do 2 years behind bars.

SB39 said:

How did he screw up the second take? Rice is suspended indefinitely, not permanently. I think it's hilarious how, for some people, Goodell can do nothing right. The People who criticized him for being too lenient before are literally the same people now criticizing him for being too harsh.

Furthermore, you have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about saying the league is open to being sued for "tens of millions of dollars" in earnings. Even if we ignore the fact that Ray Rice was cut, he was scheduled to make something like $4 million this year. Please explain to us all how suspending a guy making $4 millions opens the league up to a lost wages lawsuit for "tens of millions."

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One more time.
2nd time: Goodell belatedly & under pressure revised the punishment scale to 6 games 1st offense and indefinitely for a subsequent offense. OK. Shortly thereafter he panics & suspends 1st time offended RR indefinitely.

Did I say permanently. No, I did not.

Rice's future potential earnings stream always the big factor in such lawsuits was many millions over several seasons. There are also awards for damages beyond the stated loss.

PatsWickedPissah said:

One more time.
2nd time: Goodell belatedly & under pressure revised the punishment scale to 6 games 1st offense and indefinitely for a subsequent offense. OK. Shortly thereafter he panics & suspends 1st time offended RR indefinitely.

Did I say permanently. No, I did not.

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One more time:

A 2nd offense under the new policy is not an "indefinite" suspension, it is a lifetime ban. Yes players can apply for reinstatement after 1 year, but it is ignorant to say they gave Ray Rice the 2nd offense punishment

Indefinite suspension =/= lifetime ban.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Rice's future potential earnings stream always the big factor in such lawsuits was many millions over several seasons. There are also awards for damages beyond the stated loss.

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That wouldn't hold up in a court of law in a million years (not that such an action would ever make it to court because it would go to arbitration). Besides, the Ravens cut him so right now his future earnings potential is 0.

The worst case scenario that the league has opened themselves up to in terms of legal liability is the NFLPA filing a complaint that they cannot go back and change Rice's suspension from the original 2 games.

So you now agree that Goodell screwed up a 2nd time with his made up on the fly revised penalty

SB39 said:

One more time:

A 2nd offense under the new policy is not an "indefinite" suspension, it is a lifetime ban. Yes players can apply for reinstatement after 1 year, but it is ignorant to say they gave Ray Rice the 2nd offense punishment

Indefinite suspension =/= lifetime ban.
That wouldn't hold up in a court of law in a million years (not that such an action would ever make it to court because it would go to arbitration). Besides, the Ravens cut him so right now his future earnings potential is 0.

The worst case scenario that the league has opened themselves up to in terms of legal liability is the NFLPA filing a complaint that they cannot go back and change Rice's suspension from the original 2 games.

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The punishment that Rice got is effectively identical to the second offense punishment under the new policy. Arguing otherwise is just semantics. A lifetime ban with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement is effectively identical to indefinite suspension, and all of the precedent here backs that up.

SB39 said:

I don't like Goodell anywhere near as much as people like you think, I just recognize that overall he has done a fine job as commissioner and has been a driving force in making the NFL the behemoth it has become. He is certainly better than his predecessor, who was a complete disaster.

I also recognize that Goodell is an employee of the league and the owners are the ones giving marching orders, so I prefer placing blame where it belongs.

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I don't think many people are under any false illusions on those counts. The purpose of the NFL is to make money for the owners, and Goodell works for the owners to achieve that goal. He has, as you say, been highly successful in that regard. I don't think anyone believes his sanctimonious prattle about higher goals, social responsibility, etc. It is all secondary to making money. Goodell's main skills, as far as I can see, are a relentless drive to accomplish this agenda, an exceptionally high level of hypocrisy, and a lack of conscience and morals.

I'm under no illusion that the owners will jettison Goodell unless they believe he is costing them money, directly or indirectly. As we've discussed, the owners seem to believe they have a bullet-proof product, and they themselves are far from blameless in their behavior. As long as the facade holds, Goodell will be safe; if it starts to crumble, I have no doubts that the owners will make him a sacrificial lamb in an instant.

Apologies if this was mentioned; I did not read the whole thread. Maybe someone should remind him that one of his own players, Brian Tyms, is serving a four game suspension for the heinous crime of taking Adderall, a prescription medication that he has been ingesting since he was a nine year old foster child. Ray Rice only received a two game suspension for bashing his fiancee so hard she turned into a ragdoll.

SB39 said:

I don't like Goodell anywhere near as much as people like you think, I just recognize that overall he has done a fine job as commissioner and has been a driving force in making the NFL the behemoth it has become. He is certainly better than his predecessor, who was a complete disaster.

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You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Goodell is no visionary unlike Rozelle. Paul Tagliabue did not screw up the NFL unlike Goodell: expansion from 28 to 32 teams, implementation of the salary cap.

Goodell goes on personal jihads: SpyGate, BountyGate

SB39 said:

I also recognize that Goodell is an employee of the league and the owners are the ones giving marching orders, so I prefer placing blame where it belongs.

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Clueless

SB39 said:

The NFL was nowhere near the behemoth when he took over that it is today.

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Clueless

SB39 said:

I suppose if you conveniently ignore the fact that under Tagliabue, players (literally) got away with murder and franchises were moving all across the country on a regular basis then sure, all was well.

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Since when is the commissioner of the NFL responsible for law enforcement activities. Besides, Rae Carruth was convicted of murder.

If franchises move across the country to increase revenue that is a bonus for the NFL.

Once again, you are freaking clueless.

SB39 said:

It depends on the subject. When it comes to player discipline, yes he has autonomy (and in the Ray Rice case, it has come back to burn him).

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Goodell makes up the rules as he goes along.

SB39 said:

But when it comes to things like London, 18 game seasons, expanded playoffs, Thursday night football and various rules changes, that's on the owners.

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Thursday Night Football was Tagliabue's baby since it was implemented in 2006. Paul Tagliabue's retirement took effect on September 1, 2006. What awe inspiring rule changes revolutioned football under Goodell's watch?

Once again, you are freaking clueless.

SB39 said:

The NFL was nowhere near the behemoth when he took over that it is today.
I suppose if you conveniently ignore the fact that under Tagliabue, players (literally) got away with murder and franchises were moving all across the country on a regular basis then sure, all was well.
It depends on the subject. When it comes to player discipline, yes he has autonomy (and in the Ray Rice case, it has come back to burn him). But when it comes to things like London, 18 game seasons, expanded playoffs, Thursday night football and various rules changes, that's on the owners.

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You mean that under Tagliabue, the NFL let the courts do their jobs and then meted out punishment accordingly? I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

Re: franchises moving across the country, that wasn't a negative for the owners, and on the whole it was actually a positive for the fans too. LA is the only market that lost its team(s) without getting a team back pretty shortly thereafter, and as someone who lives there I can tell you that the locals don't really care anyway. Conversely, under Tagliabue's watch Arizona, Oakland, Tennessee, Baltimore, Jacksonville and Carolina all gained football teams. So he brought football to 6 markets and removed it from 1 (and that one market has been used to extort public funds out of probably a half-dozen NFL cities since then, so I think the owners are calling that a win its own right).

You want to talk about all that Goodell's done to expand the fan and revenue base? Well, by the end of Tagliabue's run the NFL had four more teams than when he started. That alone dwarfs anything that Goodell has accomplished. The best that you can say about Goodell is that he's not quite incompetent enough to wreck a ship that's on autopilot.

BradyFTW! said:

You mean that under Tagliabue, the NFL let the courts do their jobs and then meted out punishment accordingly? I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

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Correct.

BradyFTW! said:

The best that you can say about Goodell is that he's not quite incompetent enough to wreck a ship that's on autopilot.

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Incorrect.

Goodell's personal crusades only tarnish the NFL: SpyGate, BountyGate

Goodell was screwing up the latest CBA negotiations until Robert Kraft had to step in and clean matters up.

Goodell is nothing more than a bumbling power hungry egomaniac who puts his own personal publicity above the NFL.

Goodell and Video Tapes seem to go hand in hand in his administration.

ATippett56 said:

Incorrect.

Goodell's personal crusades only tarnish the NFL: SpyGate, BountyGate

Goodell was screwing up the latest CBA negotiations that Robert Kraft had to step in and clean matters up.

Goodell is nothing more than a bumbling power hungry egomaniac who puts his own personal publicity above the NFL.

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I agree, and I'm pretty sure that nothing you said there contradicts the point that you're arguing is incorrect.

BradyFTW! said:

You mean that under Tagliabue, the NFL let the courts do their jobs and then meted out punishment accordingly? I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

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Maybe because it leads to situations just like the one we're experiencing right now. With regards to Ray Rice, the courts "did their job" by dropping charges on the condition he goes to "intervention" counseling. That is not even a slap on the wrist. He knocks a woman unconscious and in return, the legal system drops all charges.

People criticize Goodell for giving Rice only 2 games. Tagliabue wouldn't have even given him that much.

BradyFTW! said:

I agree, and I'm pretty sure that nothing you said there contradicts the point that you're arguing is incorrect.

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Goodell has screwed up the whole Ray Rice saga to the point where he has lost all credibility with regard to NFL Personal Conduct Policies. Goodell must resign.

BradyFTW! said:

The punishment that Rice got is effectively identical to the second offense punishment under the new policy. Arguing otherwise is just semantics. A lifetime ban with the opportunity to apply for reinstatement is effectively identical to indefinite suspension, and all of the precedent here backs that up.

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You can keep saying it but that doesn't change the fact you're wrong and show you don't know what you are talking about.