***** Official Deus Irae 9/7/2014 game observations (and more) thread *****

JMC00 said:

He agreed to the paycut back in March to stay. If he didn't want to take it he could have said no and been released. So I really dont get how the f*** you can put this one of BB. Kelly agreed to the paycut and then forced his way out 5 months later because he got taken out of some preseason games.

Sorry but you aren't right on this one.

Player forces his way out after agreeing to restructure his deal 5 months earlier and blames it on being taken out of meaningless preseason games means it is on the player not the team.

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Sorry, but I (and Deus) are right on this one--which is exactly why the story has now been spread throughout the local Boston area and around the country after Miguel tweeted it yesterday. We were talking about this at least a week or so ago, and @RayClay was the one who originally posted the story.

I read it (followed later with @Oswlek, who also agreed with me) and immediately came to the conclusion that it was due to the fact that Kelly "played nice" by agreeing to a lessened deal in the spring, yet felt that he was being screwed over and that he would not have a chance to reach the incentives. It's quite possible that the idea of a rotation may have been discussed amongst Kelly and the coaches, or maybe Kelly just saw the writing on the wall. Either way, he wanted out.

As @Deus Irae pointed out--it doesn't take a genius to look at the restructured pact with clearly show the playing time incentives and some pretty significant jumps in the pay scale, look at Kelly's comments from 10-14 days ago, and put 2 + 2 together to realize that he asked for a release based on the fact that he didn't believe that he'd have much of a shot at reaching his escalators.

Tommy Kelly flat out admitted that he wanted out, and brought up his contract directly in his statements that very day. How in the world is this Bill Belichick's fault? He isn't going to make a player stay if he asks to be released. That would be opposite of the team building concept to force a player to stay if he no longer wishes to be here.

Miguel said:

Tweeted your findings. Was retweeted by the Globe's Zuri Berry. Now there are stories on SBNation and Patriots.Com. Once again, PatsFans.Com breaks a story.

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Rob0729 said:

As for the trade, there is a number of ways the trade could pay off. What if Wright becomes a solid weapon for Brady once he becomes more acclimated?

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Wright is going to be fine....give him time....he is already MORE productive in two WEEKS than Ocho did in two years! As far as the underhanded comment by Deu about him being brought in for his blocking....obviously that will never be his strong suit....but I think he will be a good reliable receiver here......

Mankins would have given up his share of sacks and hurries yesterday. ....you can bet on that.....and like u say he would NOT have been the difference maker....

primetime said:

Not sure Mankins would make any difference here. Especially since most of the pressure came from the outside yesterday. They're not going to face a Cameron Wake every week - he is an always has been severely underrated - but the outside pressure was worrying.

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james87654 said:

"Brady made a terrible read on a incomplete deep ball to Julian Edelman, throwing it too far inside after the receiver correctly read the safety and needed the pass delivered along the sideline."

its like ron read what i said and plagiarized it.............and i think borges is the foremost authority on the patriots offense......

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patr...2014/09/pats_report_card_first_test_a_clunker

9:38 in the 4th if anyone wants to look at it again

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I don't know what the read was, but I assume you are quoting Borges for comic effect. I don't think it was a bad throw, so it was likely a miscommunication.

I only saw it once, but it seemed the ball was thrown to a space where it wasn't intercepted so...

The ball is thrown before the receiver makes a cut. Borges assumes to know what read Brady was supposed to make on the play. We non-geniuses can only guess there was a miscommunication on which option.

I wasn't trying to be a wise guy, by the way, but when Brady throws to an open area and the receiver cuts instead to a different area, it's either a bad throw, or they read it differently. There's only one Brady, there are many receivers. It isn't Brady's job to guess what read the receivers will make.

Brady makes his read well before what Borges sees. If he makes the wrong read, based on what the defenders do afterwards, the receiver is still supposed to go where his training says Brady will deliver the ball, even if its' just to break up an interception. I'm hardly an expert on this, but it's common sense since Brady's decision has to be made well before the result of the play we see on the field.

stcjones said:

Wright is going to be fine....give him time....he is already MORE productive in two WEEKS than Ocho did in two years! As far as the underhanded comment by Deu about him being brought in for his blocking....obviously that will never be his strong suit....but I think he will be a good reliable receiver here......

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The funny thing is that last year there were games last year that we would have been ecstatic if the Pats got a three catch for 15 yard production from the TE position.

It's hard to judge much of anything objectively in this game due to the lack of line play on both sides of the ball. Brady, WRs, run game, secondary play. You can't stop the run, the offense does what it wants... Conversely, you can't run, the D pins its ears back and comes after your QB.

Offensively, this offense is predicated on timing and rhythm. Both are impossible to establish if Brady is facing pressure within 2 seconds of getting the ball. The line plays as a unit so it's not entirely accurate to blame one individual for a collective bad performance. Tackles rely on their guards for communication and it requires trust knowing your line-mate will deal with his man. The unit on the field Sunday did not play together in the preseason. Cannon did not play LG once in the preseason. Subbing players in and out prevents unit cohesion which an O line needs more than any other unit on the field. That being said, the individual play was also poor and I believe the lack of cohesion was a part of the cause for poor individual play.

Defensively, the Dolphins used a new blocking scheme. Great, adjust to it. But the Pats were not able to do that, or if they did they could not execute, mix in the heat/fatigue = fail. I am not sure why BB is running a 3-4 unless he is running an attacking 3-4 where the DEs penetrate - can anyone comment on this? Otherwise, asking guys like C.Jones and Easley to 2 gap makes no sense. Neither one of those guys is known as stout point of attack players. 3-4 DEs are 6-3+, 300 lbs+, long arms. Easley/Jones/Vellano do not fit the mold.

As another poster mentioned I think our best base front 7 alignment is Jones, Wilfork, Siliga, Ninko - Collins, Mayo, Hightower. Between Wilfork and Siligea you have almost 700 lbs. of run stuffing beef - if that front 7 can't stop the run we have long term issues. Sub in Easley on passing down, and another DE/DT here and there to give Jones/Ninko/Wilfork a breather.

ps. I wish we signed Kevin Williams!

Losing to the Dolphins was fine with me. It's a game, you win some you lose some. My issue with the loss was specifically how we lost. It seemed to me that we got beat up in the trenches and so I wanted a closer look...After re-watching the game (in slow motion at times) to understand what happened here is what I saw...

Pats Offense:

• Miami D came flying off the ball
• Maybe changing up the snap count would draw them offsides
• Miami D was playing with backup LBs most of the game
• After the ball was snapped the Miami D line would attack our o line on the line of scrimmage
• Often the guard/center would let somebody squeeze through them, as if each thought 'you got'im'
• Odrick's long arms caused trouble on the interior, once he extended his arms our interior OL had issues doing anything with him. Slap his hands away and drive block
• Wake's first step is elite and caused both Vollmer and Solder issues
• Vernon's (the other Miami DE) first step is a step below Wake's
• In the future I think we should have a TE/big WR (Wright/LaFell) chip Wake randomly before releasing in the pass pattern to get him thinking about when the next time that will come
• Devey got driven back on rollerskates to Brady's lap twice (at least), by Starks at least once
• Brady had Dolphins DTs around his knees a few times and we're fortunate for the QB knee rule
• Cannon needs to work on his awareness, he looked like he was late on his blocks a few times and it resulted in Dolphins squeezing through
• The WRs and Brady were not on the same page on a few throws
• The WRs dropped a few catch-able balls
• Brady missed a few throws that went into the ground
• LaFell run blocks with authority
• LaFell and Edleman probably would want another shot at the deeps balls thrown to them

Pats Defense:

• NE Played a 3-4 with Jones lined up on the T, he would often get double teamed and did not hold his ground
• Vellano was lined up as the other DE and saw his playing time reduced in the second half
• Vellano was washed out of the play on several occasions, he was the defense's equivalent of Devey
  
• Jaime Collins had a bag game as a 3-4 inside LB against the run, making late reads and taking poor angles attacking o-linemen/ball carriers
• Mayo was taking bad angles attacking the B gap
• The issues with the 3-4 inside LBs making late reads and taking bad angles allows the NT (Often Vince, sometimes Siligua) and DE to be walled off and allows the ~320 lb. guard 3-4 yards head start on our 250 lb. LBs effectively creating a 4-5 yard alley for the RB to run through, then he just has to read the block of the guard to get more yards until the safety can make the T or a LB catches him from behind
• The Miami O line was firing off the LOS and attacking our D line, on a few runs Moreno ran 5 yards past the LOS before being touched (he averaged 5.6 on the day and is the leading rusher in the NFL)
• I saw Hightower lose the Edge one time, otherwise he did an excellent job setting the edge
• Jones needs to keep his hands down when making contact with the QB
• Tackling overall was poor, too many arm tackles that Moreno ran through

It's as BB said.. it wasn't one thing... but a combination of a lot of things.

TheBaronPatriot said:

Jones needs to keep his hands down when making contact with the QB

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I thought all the roughing the passer calls were highly questionable (and I'm one of the top player safety drum beaters), but I thought Jones kept his hands up specifically to avoid the Hightower call of "driving the quarterback into the ground." You're damned if you do, damned if you don't when you try to tackle the QB. Only way to get a clean sack nowadays seems to be if the quarterback obliges you and goes down himself.

primetime said:

I thought all the roughing the passer calls were highly questionable (and I'm one of the top player safety drum beaters), but I thought Jones kept his hands up specifically to avoid the Hightower call of "driving the quarterback into the ground." You're damned if you do, damned if you don't when you try to tackle the QB. Only way to get a clean sack nowadays seems to be if the quarterback obliges you and goes down himself.

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Seems like the least likely penalized way to go is to give the QB an aggressive hug, wrap him up so he can't move and wait until the ref blows the play dead. And if you do tackle the QB, after taking him down you need to let go and roll off so the QB hits the turf on his own.

Well, the Edelman/Brady debate seems to have been ended, and the mistake was apparently Edelman's, as was expected.

Deus Irae said:

Well, the Edelman/Brady debate seems to have been ended, and the mistake was apparently Edelman's, as was expected.

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i concede defeat this time, deus.....

JMC00 said:

Oh ya what's my agenda douchebag?

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I just noticed this post. This post of yours is wrong on so many levels. There was no need to call Deus any names. Deus is one the nicest posters on this board and did not deserve that.

Christiancat said:

I just noticed this post. This post of yours is wrong on so many levels. There was no need to call Deus any names. Deus is one the nicest posters on this board and did not deserve that.

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Deus is one of the most knowledgeable posters on the board. But not even Deus thinks hes one of the nicest.

Sciz said:

I can't see any other explanation for that play than that Edelman misjudged the pass. The coaches film isn't available yet, but from both TV views, he's looking back for the ball long before the pass gets there. The play was over as soon has he turned to face the ball and try to jump straight up for it. He needed to keep running, and regardless of whatever reads Borges is making up (the safety wasn't going to stop Edelman from making the catch had he gotten there), Edelman had plenty of time to adjust his angle. He just basically stopped instead.

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Edelman has turned himself into a really good receiver but that is the one aspect of his game where he really seems to struggle imo. His judgement on deep balls is shakey at best. The rest of his game is really good though.

Ivan said:

Edelman has turned himself into a really good receiver but that is the one aspect of his game where he really seems to struggle imo. His judgement on deep balls is shakey at best. The rest of his game is really good though.

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He has made some great strides at the transformation from a college QB to a professional WR in many areas, but I'm sure that there are areas such as what you've pointed out where he needs to improve.

I'm guessing it's just going to be practice, practice, and more practice that helps that issue; aside from somehow going out and deciding to bring in a physical, veteran WR of course

Christiancat said:

I just noticed this post. This post of yours is wrong on so many levels. There was no need to call Deus any names. Deus is one the nicest posters on this board and did not deserve that.

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JMC00 is one of the White Knights of the Order of the Insane Homer Posse. Like most of the other members of that group, he sees the speck of sawdust in his Brother's eye, but does not see the plank in his own.

This has been an entertaining and informative thread.

Stuck in ridiculous traffic on the Mass Pike this morning I heard both Rodney Harrison on 93.7 and Roosevelt Colvin on 98.5 provide some pertinent information on topics in this debate.

Colvin was articulate about the Patriots not having the right personnel on Sunday to play a 3-4, or a tightly aligned 4-3 two-gap defense. In short, he supported what most here have been saying. http://boston.cbslocal.com/audio/all-wbz-fm-audio/

He compared Chandler Jones' struggles in a two gap to his own. He compared Chandler Jones to Willie McGinest, and said that Belichick is trying to put Jones in position to make plays. It sounded like they're sorting out how best to use this group, and Colvin was confident they'd get there.

Rotating the OL is critical in that kind of weather, and it's the only way the Patriots linemen will find out what's needed from them in different combinations and with new guys. He did not seem worried that they'd figure it out. Colvin also said that the heat and humidity is most definitely a factor.

Colvin said the week of practice after a loss is constant reminders for everyone of what they have to do better as they focus on the next team on the schedule. Not a revelation, but important around here to remember that the players' performance is not set in stone. We've all seen it before. Guys get better, mistakes that happened early go away.

Colvin also was candid about the fact that he struggled in pass coverage as a Patriot and tried to do the best he could. Rosie Colvin and the boys at 98.5 did a nice job deflecting the Ray Rice-Roger Goodell crap and moving on to this week's game

Rodney Harrison was not as enlightening because the idiots on D&C used two-thirds of their time on Ray Rice. Those guys really don't get it.

When they finally got to the Patriots, Harrison said he is not concerned about the Patriots beating the Vikings. http://v6.player.abacast.net/2099

He said that "you didn't really see (in-game adjustments) last week." He also said that Belichick wil address in-house issue first this week. I added two+two and took away that the coaches are in for a long week.

Finally, how does one get asked to try out for the "White Knights of the Order of the Insane Homer Posse?"

goheels22002 said:

Finally, how does one get asked to try out for the "White Knights of the Order of the Insane Homer Posse?"

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It's simple, disagree with Deus when he is criticizing the Patriots, which is most of the time, and you automatically gain entry.

Deus is really the only person who sees everything with crystal clear clarity, those who don't agree with him are clouded by the fog on their rose colored glasses and can't think clearly or intelligently.It is not unadulterated arrogance on his part he is just always right.

goheels22002 said:

He said that "you didn't really see (in-game adjustments) last week.

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I guess he wasn't paying attention to the Dolphins.

Ivan said:

It's simple, disagree with Deus when he is criticizing the Patriots, which is most of the time, and you automatically gain entry.

Deus is really the only person who sees everything with crystal clear clarity, those who don't agree with him are clouded by the fog on their rose colored glasses and can't think clearly or intelligently.It is not unadulterated arrogance on his part he is just always right.

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Thank you for sharing the secret to admission in the "White Knights of the Order of the Insane Homer Posse."

I doubt I'll ever get in.

I used to disagree with Deus Irae all the time when he had that ominous black avatar on the old board. Now that he's showing up as this woman in a ballroom gown with hoop earrings, I'm afraid to argue with him. But please don't share that with anyone. My therapist is getting rich trying to help me move past being intimidated by attractive confident women dressed in black named after post-apocalyptic novels.