Miami positives

supafly said:

The first sentence from Duffy would have been more appropriate than the second one, which makes it sound like Revis allowed 7/11 catches vs Wallace--so I'll give you that.

On the other hand, there have been multiple examples now who have stated that Revis had problems with Wallace, and someone who has a "pretty good" game would not experience such issues, or have that many opinions all pointing to the same thing.

Personally, I think it's a mixed bag. I thought Revis had a nice breakup, but he also got beaten several times that were significant enough that it shouldn't be considered as a "pretty good" game. The only defenders who I think had a pretty good game may be Mayo and Collins, all things considered.

To each his own. I think most of us have a much higher standard of one of the top 1-2-3 CBs in the game, rather than that mediocre letdown. It wasn't bad for getting his feet wet and showing his natural talent though, and I'm sure we'll be seeing much better in the future.

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Sorry, but I don't judge how a guy I watched play played by reading what other people say and letting them tell me what to think.
It would seem that the majority of the writers you quoted were basing it on a stat line.
Revis simply did not get beaten several times, no matter how many times you type that.

The only positive thing I take from yesterday is the barbecue ribs I bought to celebrate the season opener even though the Pats made me swallow with bones and everything.

AndyJohnson said:

Sorry, but I don't judge how a guy I watched play played by reading what other people say and letting them tell me what to think.
It would seem that the majority of the writers you quoted were basing it on a stat line.
Revis simply did not get beaten several times, no matter how many times you type that.

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I didn't base my findings on what others thought. I included the opinions from others to back up the opinion.

C'mon, man...you've done that before a million times. If you believe something, you will cite other articles or sources that state the same. Now, all of a sudden because YOU choose to disagree with the findings, all of the sources are incorrect. The point is that I certainly wasn't the only one who saw that yesterday.

As far as Revis getting beaten "several times," yes--he did. The kicker is that Wallace dropped one of them. There were at least 3-4 times (the long 22 yd gain, the 14 yd gain, the TD catch, and the drop).

If that's the measuring stick that you'll be judging with the rest of the season for a CB who will want one of the highest defensive contracts in the game, that's on you....My opinion is that Darrelle Revis was a mixed bag yesterday. He certainly wasn't "pretty good" which is what I was responding to. Revis had an average game, which says a lot when you think of all of the players who had a bad game.

KontradictioN said:

Revis didn't look like the Revis of old yesterday. He was okay, and that's about it. He allowed a third down conversion on a slant to Wallace, got smoked on a double move where he was trailing by 10+ yards deep on a pass that should have been a touchdown if Tannehill puts the ball on the money, and allowed a TD to Wallace later. That's by no means a shut down corner. That being said, the coaching staff had him playing off man most of the game which is only slightly less ******ed than having him play exclusively zone like the genius Schiano did in Tampa.

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If anyone walked away from that game and had a feeling sticking out that "Revis played a pretty good game," it was obviously a fantastical illusion to try and make them feel better after a dismal performance by the entire team.

As I've mentioned about a half-dozen times now, we all expect Revis to play much better moving forward.

Well one positive. I think they start the year 3-0 this year (buff-kc) MIA...so they can choke away later in the year

voluntarysaftey said:

Revis had a poor Revis game; but a well above average #1 CB game. Guys like Wallace have huge games about teams top CBs routinely. Wallace did not have a huge game yesterday.

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Mike Wallace had ONE game all of last year in sixteen tries where he caught more balls than yesterday....

I do agree with you that Revis is far from the top of our concerns at the moment though, but you're wrong about your first part.

Brady_to_Moss said:

Well one positive. I think they start the year 3-0 this year (buff-kc) MIA...so they can choke away later in the year

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They started 3-0 last year as well.

supafly said:

They started 3-0 last year as well.

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I know..i expect the same...and no playoffs again

MrNathanDrake said:

Oh okay. **** THIS.

The coaching was terrible. The execution was terrible. The OLine got killed. Brady was scared.

We played a 3-4 for some unknown reason despite drafting 4-3 players recently. Everyone looked out of position and it showed, when Moreno ran all over the defense.


I don't blame any of that on "teh complex playz!". If that's what complex plays look like, we need to change something fast.

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Riiiight... Belichick is WELL KNOWN for his simple defensive and offensive schemes....

No one is saying they looked good giving up 23 unanswered points

But TRY to remember that by and large this is a completely new Defense that has very limited playing time - even more limited than they would have in a different CBA era when you could actually compel players to stay in shape and practice together more in the offseason

I hardly think Revis and company (who aren't even close to being at full personnel yet) have come close to their potential, and I for one one went into this season expecting that such a new Defense would need time to settle down and would likely only reach their peak when the weather turns colder

If others were expecting a Belichick coached team to be in mid-season form in September - as they hardly ever are - I'm sure they would say **** this to my comment

JMC00 said:

Wallace had two catches against Revis and one of them Revis had him covered and tipped the pass but it bounced back into Wallace's arms

The double move play Wallace didn't stay inbounds so it goes in the record books as incomplete.

How'd Hartline and Clay do lined up across Revis? Oh ya both got shut out going against him.

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Anything less than zero catches against Revis is unacceptable.

mgteich said:

Anything less than zero catches against Revis is unacceptable.

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When you're expected to be one of the top 1-2 CBs in the entire league, come with an offseason full of hype, supposedly had our 6x probowl LG moved to free up money to pay you a long term pact at 14m dollars per year, you're kind of expected to play a little better than what we saw.

The whole purpose was to "take away the opposition's best weapon," who went on to have a 7/11 statline, and that isn't even including the times (dropped ball and Tannehill overthrow on clear 20+ yd beating) where Wallace beat him and screwed himself. In one vs one matchups, Wallace definitely won more than Revis did.

No one's saying that Revis played poorly, but he didn't come as advertised yesterday. As mentioned numerous times now, we all expect him to improve with the rest of the team. It's a team game.

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2014/09/miami_dolphins_wr_spoils_darre.html

FourierSeries said:

Only gave up 173 passing yards. So the passing D is likely among the best in the league statistically, after one game.

That's about the only positive I can think of.

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I was right. We are top 5 in passing D.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2014&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Why risk passing when you can run for whatever yardage you need, whenever you need it?

supafly said:

Darrelle Revis was nothing more than average today, did NOT take away their best weapon, allowed several completions (and a TD), and did not come as advertised.

You don't want to tell it like it is. He was average.

Ask @KontradictioN . He was at the game down in Miami today, and followed Revis closely.

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Sup, I agree with you 95% of the time, but in this instance, I think you and others ate letting your other worldly expectations of Revis to set you up to be disappointed. While Revis may be the best CB to ever play the game, he is not the fastest. He played pretty well and got beat twice by the fastest receiver in the game. The only true down play I saw was the incompletion in the end zone. The 20-yard crossing pattern was a case of too much time for the QB and not enough help against a fast player, and the TD was a good play overcome by a better play. It's not what we want for $16M, but it was pretty good CB play.

supafly said:

I didn't base my findings on what others thought. I included the opinions from others to back up the opinion.

C'mon, man...you've done that before a million times. If you believe something, you will cite other articles or sources that state the same. Now, all of a sudden because YOU choose to disagree with the findings, all of the sources are incorrect. The point is that I certainly wasn't the only one who saw that yesterday.

As far as Revis getting beaten "several times," yes--he did. The kicker is that Wallace dropped one of them. There were at least 3-4 times (the long 22 yd gain, the 14 yd gain, the TD catch, and the drop).

If that's the measuring stick that you'll be judging with the rest of the season for a CB who will want one of the highest defensive contracts in the game, that's on you....My opinion is that Darrelle Revis was a mixed bag yesterday. He certainly wasn't "pretty good" which is what I was responding to. Revis had an average game, which says a lot when you think of all of the players who had a bad game.

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But that isn't what you did. You quoted 'national sportswriter' and a guy whose comments indicated he thought Revis had Wallace man on man all day. There was no indication they even watched the game. I did, so your appeal to a quasi-authority doesn't work.
I have to rewatch, but I believe Revis allowed 2 catches all day. Either the 14 or 22, I don't remember which, the other was zone, not in his area, and the TD which he got a hand on. 2 catches allowed, one of which you tipped, is in fact, a very good day for a corner.

AndyJohnson said:

But that isn't what you did. You quoted 'national sportswriter' and a guy whose comments indicated he thought Revis had Wallace man on man all day. There was no indication they even watched the game. I did, so your appeal to a quasi-authority doesn't work.
I have to rewatch, but I believe Revis allowed 2 catches all day. Either the 14 or 22, I don't remember which, the other was zone, not in his area, and the TD which he got a hand on. 2 catches allowed, one of which you tipped, is in fact, a very good day for a corner.

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It wasn't "just" the fact that he allowed catches, it was also taking into account the times where he was clearly beat in the other instances like the 33 yd endoze pass, and the dropped pass by Wallace as well.

I don't need to "appeal to a quasi-authority." I gave my opinion just like you did. Most people want posters to back up their findings and opinions with links and articles, so that is what I did---3 separate times from different sources, including local sources like masslive. Like many things that you disagree with, since you don't care for their findings or analysis, you don't want to hear it. I can tell you that none of my sources insinuated that Revis and Wallace were one vs one all day. That is a conclusion that you made up on your own. Even then, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and said that he could've worded it a bit differently. As usual, that wasn't enough for you, and you wouldn't just let a difference of opinions go.

Just because we have a difference of opinions on what I deemed as "mixed bag" and what you supposedly deem as "good CB play" doesn't mean that either of us are wrong or right. I saw Revis get beat more times than he made plays on Sunday, so that's why I feel that way. I don't really care whether you disagree or not to be perfectly honest with you. There have been numerous time where you have been incorrect over the years, so it isn't like you are the prime authority on whose opinion is correct or not.

I backed up my opinion with 3 different sources, and since that isn't good enough for you for different reasons that you gave, we should just move on.

pencilneckgeek said:

Sup, I agree with you 95% of the time, but in this instance, I think you and others ate letting your other worldly expectations of Revis to set you up to be disappointed. While Revis may be the best CB to ever play the game, he is not the fastest. He played pretty well and got beat twice by the fastest receiver in the game. The only true down play I saw was the incompletion in the end zone. The 20-yard crossing pattern was a case of too much time for the QB and not enough help against a fast player, and the TD was a good play overcome by a better play. It's not what we want for $16M, but it was pretty good CB play.

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Thanks for the kind opening comments. Where we seem to disagree is the fact that there were a couple/few other instances like the incompletion in the end zone (Wallace couldn't get the 2nd foot in), and the pass that Wallace dropped as well. There was also a pass where he had clearly beaten Revis near the sideline, yet Tannehill overthrew the ball like he often does.

It isn't just looking at the plays that counted. I saw Revis get beat more times than he made plays, so that is why I deemed his play on Sunday as mediocre/average/mixed bag.

Your point about having higher expectations probably comes into the equation, so I think that's certainly fair to bring up. He is also my "hometown hero," in both high school and college, so it's not like I'm meaning to want to downplay his talent. Like I said though, I do expect him to improve, and did not agree with the statement that his play was "pretty good" on Sunday.

supafly said:

Thanks for the kind opening comments. Where we seem to disagree is the fact that there were a couple/few other instances like the incompletion in the end zone (Wallace couldn't get the 2nd foot in), and the pass that Wallace dropped as well. There was also a pass where he had clearly beaten Revis near the sideline, yet Tannehill overthrew the ball like he often does.

It isn't just looking at the plays that counted. I saw Revis get beat more times than he made plays, so that is why I deemed his play on Sunday as mediocre/average/mixed bag.

Your point about having higher expectations probably comes into the equation, so I think that's certainly fair to bring up. He is also my "hometown hero," in both high school and college, so it's not like I'm meaning to want to downplay his talent. Like I said though, I do expect him to improve, and did not agree with the statement that his play was "pretty good" on Sunday.

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I'm with you on the end-zone incompletion - Revis's worst play of the game. On the crossing patterns (the completion and the incomplete ball thrown behind Wallace), I suspect that safety help was schemed. Revis was playing with strong outside leverage and covering from a trail position rather than chasing frantically as if he had been beaten. Revis can't be expected to cover long crossing patterns and long downfield plays (as opposed to the short-field end-zone play, where I've noted he was beat) against somebody with Wallace's speed. He can cover anything else and just about anyone else, but the best way to match-up against top-flight speed is with scheme. I do wonder if Revis has lost a step, or whether he was simply slower in the heat. He has shown elite speed in the past himself, and there really are only a couple of players in the league who are fast enough to consider providing over-the-top help for him, but Wallace is the fastest of those.

supafly said:

It wasn't "just" the fact that he allowed catches, it was also taking into account the times where he was clearly beat in the other instances like the 33 yd endoze pass, and the dropped pass by Wallace as well.

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Then I guess we disagree on what a bad day by a corner is.

I don't need to "appeal to a quasi-authority." I gave my opinion just like you did. Most people want posters to back up their findings and opinions with links and articles, so that is what I did---3 separate times from different sources, including local sources like masslive. Like many things that you disagree with, since you don't care for their findings or analysis, you don't want to hear it.

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What does that mean? I'm not allowed to disagree when I look at something and see it differently?
I have NEVER read an article and accepted the opinion of anything that happened on the football field as fact when I have the ability to look myself and make my own judgment. You speak as if that is a wrong approach.

I can tell you that none of my sources insinuated that Revis and Wallace were one vs one all day.That is a conclusion that you made up on your own. Even then, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and said that he could've worded it a bit differently. As usual, that wasn't enough for you, and you wouldn't just let a difference of opinions go.

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How is 'he could have worded it differently' giving the benefit of the doubt in response to the guy didn't watch the game and is basing his opinion on a stat line. That sounds like you are saying of course he's correct he just didn't write what he meant to say. He absolutely did imply that Revis was on Wallace all day.

Just because we have a difference of opinions on what I deemed as "mixed bag" and what you supposedly deem as "good CB play" doesn't mean that either of us are wrong or right.

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Did I say otherwise?

I saw Revis get beat more times than he made plays on Sunday, so that's why I feel that way.

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Wait, you think he got beat more than he covered? Really? What were there 30-some passes? You think he got beaten more than 15 times?

I don't really care whether you disagree or not to be perfectly honest with you.

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A curious comment from someone spending so much time arguing my opinion.

There have been numerous time where you have been incorrect over the years, so it isn't like you are the prime authority on whose opinion is correct or not.

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Have I ever said otherwise? Are you implying you are the authority?

I backed up my opinion with 3 different sources, and since that isn't good enough for you for different reasons that you gave, we should just move on.

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A 500 word post followed by 'we should move on'?
I acknowledged your sources and explained my issues with each. You did nothing to refute those issues other than to say the guy didn't write what he meant. What if they really didn't watch the game, and like many, many internet 'journalists' just wrote what they thought? Does that make them a strong supporting argument for your position, or just someone on the internet making an uniformed comment? You truly do not know which is the case. THAT is why your 'sources' are weak.

mrscruff said:

This thread is the one of the few good things about this loss ....

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FWIW, Mrs. Cruff was referring to this underappreciated gem:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ne-analysis-thread-week-1-miami-2014.1111872/